Protestant OT books by Josephus

[fhansen]

The Church established by Christ determines the canon of Scripture, not the Jews or Protestants or anyone else. And the Apochrypha was certainly in circulation as part of the early writings. The truth is that Protestants prefer their novel gospel and object to anything that might oppose it. Similarly there’s a reason that the book of James was nearly excluded too.

 

[mcq72]

The Catholic Church is guided by the Holy Spirit and has the God given mandate to Teach in place of Jesus.

Fine, not sure why you refuse to admit CC church was guided by Jesus not to declare all books of Septuagint(s) in canon.( eg. Mac 3,4)

 

[De_Maria]

No one is saying to despise non canonical writings.

It was an example.

So are you saying the CC has chosen some books as canon, all the rest have not been judged?

The Catholic Church has chosen some books as canon and has reserved judgment on the others.

When you choose a pair of shoes you have not chosen all the others you have seen.

That’s besides the point. I’m Catholic. I"ve chosen Catholic shoes because Christ was wearing them. Jews reject those shoes because they reject Christ. Protestants reject those shoes because they are Catholic shoes but claim that they are following Jewish example.

Silly I think, and slightly anti semetic as to integrity of scholarship (discernment) and reverence to God breathed writ, that they themselves were God’s custodians down to and for us. Even Paul cites them for this, “(the Jews) having the Oracle’s of God”.

Lol! So, you think that they remained the custodians of God’s oracles?

Luke 24:45Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

2 Pet 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

I wonder how many other Protestants believe that the Jews remain the custodians of God’s Word?

Silly because Jesus cited most often from Pent, and Prophets ( either from Hebrew or Greek texts) and the so called " anti Christian" Jews didn’t cut these books out.

Again, the truth is true whether you believe it or not.

Finally do you think non Christian Jews stopped using Septuagint, especially those in diaspora? Was it not enough for non Christian Jews not to accept the sacred writings of Jewish Christians from the pen of Matt. Mark Luke and John etc…that was the true differentiation, not use of deutero books.

Jews no longer have a central authority. There are Jews who still use the Greek writings. But we’re not talking about those. We are talking about the ones who’s example Luther followed.

Interesting that Gentile Christians should critique and judge Jews on their own “canon”.

Lol! We don’t. They can use whatever they want. This thread is about why we have the Christian canon. By the way, the entire Bible is Christian. God gave the Church the authority to Teach His Word, infallibly. That doesn’t stop with the New Testament.

"Rather, the available evidence indicates that Jerome consistently excluded the deu-terocanonical books …

That doesn’t matter. What matters is that in the end, he accepted the authority of the Catholic Church and included them in the Latin Vulgate.

 

[De_Maria]

De_Maria:

But, the Catholic Church has merely said that the 73 books in the Latin Vulgate, are inspired

Yah but there’s 76 books in the Latin Vulgate… Can someone please explain to me why the Prayer of Manasseh and 3 and 4 Esdras are in the Vulgate but were not considered scripture? I also assume that is how they ended up in the KJV with the rest of the deuterocanonical books though referred to as apocrypha and also the KJV calls them 1 and 2 Esdras. Was the Church inconsistent? If they just made all of the books in the Vulgate scripture why not these three?
Books of the Vulgate - Wikipedia

I follow the Catholic Church. Not Wikipedia. The Councils of Trent and Florence list 73 books. Do you have a higher authority than those Councils?

 

[mcq72]

Lol! So, you think that they remained the custodians of God’s oracles?

Oh sorry. Did not know that at Christ’s time, they didnt. Somebody better tell Paul, who said they did.

Of course we speak of OT. Lol.

Do you not like that Jews were custodian of Holy Scripture , whose " canon" we discuss now?

Jews no longer have a central authority.

Even when they did, they did not lord over people exactly what was canon and what was not, as if they were orphanless otherwise to know.

 

[mcq72]

They can use whatever they want. This thread is about why we have the Christian canon. By the way, the entire Bible is Christian

You mean Roman Catholic ?

I would dare say most if not all bible was written by Jews.

We have been grafted in, even our scriptures.

Indeed, you are "of Peter, " even in this (canon).

Quite sectarian.

 

[De_Maria]

Oh sorry. Did not know that at Christ’s time, they didnt. Somebody better tell Paul, who said they did.

Where?

Of course we speak of OT. Lol.

Yeah.

Do you not like that Jews were custodian of Holy Scripture , whose " canon" we discuss now?

“were” is the relevant word.

Even when they did, they did not lord over people exactly what was canon and what was not, as if they were orphanless otherwise to know.

The Catholic Church has the God given authority to determine the Canon of Scripture. Whether you like it or not.

You mean Roman Catholic ?

The Catholic Church is the only Christian Church which Jesus Christ authorized.

I would dare say most if not all bible was written by Jews.

You mean the Old Testament. The New Testament was written by Christians.

Galatians 3:28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

We have been grafted in, even our scriptures.

Into Christ. Judaism is gone.

 

[mcq72]

"were” ( given oracles of God )is the relevant word.

Precisely, they were custodians of writ we discuss.

 

[mcq72]

The Catholic Church has the God given authority to determine the Canon of Scripture. Whether you like it or not.

Absolutely, just like our counterpart did in OT, the Jews, though they didnt need to.

 

[mcq72]

Where

Romans 3:2

“chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.”
"

 

[De_Maria]

De_Maria:

"were” ( given oracles of God )is the relevant word.

Precisely, they were custodians of writ we discuss.

At one time. No longer.

De_Maria:

The Catholic Church has the God given authority to determine the Canon of Scripture. Whether you like it or not.

Absolutely, just like our counterpart did in OT, the Jews, though they didnt need to.

I believe Hebrews ch 2 or 3, therabouts

" unto them were given the oracles of God"… something like that.

Who denied that? But even when they had custody of the Oracles, they didn’t understand His Word.

Matthew 22:29Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

It is to His Christian Church that God gave both custody and understanding of His Word.

Ephesians 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

 

[mcq72]

But even when they had custody of the Oracles, they didn’t understand His Word.

Matthew 22:29Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Yes and no…always a remnant…i mean Mary is a Jew and Joseph, Zacharias, John the baptist David, Moses etc.,etc.

Yes the Saducees were blind to resurection and were addressed in your text of Matthew.

 

[De_Maria]

Yes and no…always a remnant…i mean Mary is a Jew and Joseph, Zacharias, John the baptist David, Moses etc.,etc.

They are all members of the Body of Christ.

 

[mcq72]

They are all members of the Body of Christ.

Yes, they are also true Israel.

 

[De_Maria]

De_Maria:

They are all members of the Body of Christ.

Yes, they are also true Israel.

Not the way that you mean, as though OT Judaism still existed. Judaism is gone. Get over it. Jesus Christ established His Church, the New Jerusalem, the Catholic Church.

 

[irenaeuslyons]

BartholomewB:

I sometimes wonder about Eph 6:14-17 compared with Wis 5:18-20 (or in some Bibles, 19-21).

Wis:
… he will put on righteousness as a breastplate, and wear impartial justice as a helmet ; he will take holiness as an invincible shield , and sharpen stern wrath for a sword ,

Eph:
Stand therefore, having girded your loins with truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness , and having shod your feet with the equipment of the gospel of peace; above all taking the shield of faith, with which you can quench all the flaming darts of the evil one. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke… Isaiah 59:17

Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Psalms 30:5

Note that in this verse he speaks of the breastplate of faith and charity, the helmet of hope.

Holy Bible (Douay Rheims)
1 Thess 5:8 • ‘But let us, who are of the day, be sober, having on the breastplate of faith and charity, and for a helmet the hope of salvation.’

Reference:
Isa 59:17 • ‘He put on justice as a breastplate, and a helmet of salvation upon his head: he put on the garments of vengeance, and was clad with zeal as with a cloak.’
Eph 6:14 • ‘Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of justice,’
Eph 6:17 • ‘And take unto you the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit (which is the word of God).’

 

[BartholomewB]

Thank you, @irenaeuslyons! This is getting more and more interesting.

 

[TARRAT]

Jesus only founded on church upon Peter. That should be in your bible if you have a real bible.

 

[mcq72]

Jesus only founded on church upon Peter. That should be in your bible if you have a real bible.

So there is a real church and a real bible…thank God there is also a real, unproprietary, saving Jesus Christ.

 

[TARRAT]

And The Saving Jesus Christ left only one church founded on Peter.