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Dokimas
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We differ in our understanding of the church Jesus founded. Oh well.
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PRmerger
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“Nice try” when you mean “you really failed” is sarcasm.
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PRmerger
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How so?
Well, it is I and about a dozen other Catholics whose posts I have read here on the CAFs stating this.
No. I have never stated that. This is your imagination.
See above.
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Dokimas
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I’m not going to ‘argue’ with you any longer on the issue. I’ve already commented to the person directly. Continue to make this non-issue an issue if you want to but I’ll leave it to you to do as you will.
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Dokimas
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How so? I highlighted in your post.How so?
Well, it is I and about a dozen other Catholics whose posts I have read here on the CAFs stating this.
No. I have never stated that. This is your imagination.
See above.
You’ve not tried to convince me that the CC is 100% correct on doctrine and faith?
The CC doesn’t understand or interpret the Bible correctly on all issues? If not, then why should I become a catholic when I can go to my church that isn’t perfect on it’s understanding of Scripture, just like the CC (if they aren’t always correct)?
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PRmerger
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Perhaps you’re confusing my comment that that CC has the fullness of truth with the comment above? They are not the same.
Because, as I stated above, and have stated a multitude of times: the CC has the fullness of Truth.
Not to mention, you should become Catholic so you can have the magnificent and sublime ONE FLESH UNION with your Beloved. In your church, sadly, you can only get as close as reading His love letters to you and feeling Him there in spirit. That is quite different and incomparable to being fully united to Him, in the most intimate of ways, through the Eucharist.
You can say that you have a wonderful relationship with Jesus–and I am certain that you do–but you don’t have the One Flesh Union. So you are the equivalent of a dating couple that hasn’t consummated their relationship. Catholics have the CONSUMMATION of this union.
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PRmerger
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Actually, Doki. I’m not going to “argue” with you anymore either.
You have been one of my favorite non-Catholic Christian posters…
But I haven’t been feeling the love back.
I’m done with your argumentative style here.
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Dokimas
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Dokimas
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I truely have no clue what you are speaking about, the negative part that is.
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PbloPicasso
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Dokimas
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PM is a woman.
Thank you for your opinion. You prove the topic of the thread I started quoting a catholic and an evangelical. They agree on one thing which you are proving.
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PbloPicasso
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Sorry PM. Didn’t know.
Dokimas, I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove. I told things like I see it after doing much research. The more I learned the more I tried to prove the Catholic Church did not exist and was a lie. Then I leaned towards the Orthodox as I opened the reality abandoned by Protestants about 500 years ago. Sure, heresies existed in the early church, but it wasn’t Catholic or Orthodox. As I tried to lean to the Orthodox thinking they didn’t believe the same things as Catholic I was faced with priests that actually defended the same beliefs and it came across initially as uncharitable. But then I began to realize that either or both were part of the original Church. Now, I know for sure that they both were, not just the Orthodox Church. I can assure you, they weren’t Baptists, they weren’t Presbyterian, they weren’t Lutheran, they weren’t a whole bunch of other variations of the same. They were Christians, that called themselves Christians and also Catholic. They also called themselves Orthodox Christians to distinguish themselves from heterodox Christians. Orthodox Christians consider Protestants and Catholics heterodox Christians. And so the story goes on and on without ever coming to an end.
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PRmerger
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Indeed. Many who do not wish to hear the truth get offended by it.
Do you not think that Jesus offended many by saying “If you divorce and re-marry you commit adultery”?
Yet, Jesus, being Truth, could proclaim nothing else.
Those with hearts that were pliable, received His Words well.
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PbloPicasso
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True. There are a few type of Catholics I really have problems talking to because of my views on the issues that drive them. The first is homosexual supporters (talking about the kind that practice their desires). The second is those that accept and accept abortion as really only the woman’s choice. Both groups get totally obnoxious. The irony is that I actually empathize on some level with both groups, but both are sinful acts and justifying it just doesn’t pan out using logic. They rationalize it the way I rationalized leaving the Church, thinking I was right and the Church was wrong. I admit my failure now and still stumble into the traps set on CAF.
I’m sure I’ll be chastised for one thread dealing with the first issue. I have friends that are in both categories and I just don’t hang out with them or say things to offend them, at least not on purpose. I’m sickened by sin, as we should. But I can’t understand how someone is supposed to be compassionate towards a sinner that refuses to change. It’s one of my faults I admit. It’s difficult to shake 32 years of fundamentalist training and another 17 years of fundamentalist style Catholicism (ultra traditional Catholic). The two groups I have issues with wear their feelings on their shoulders and go out of their way to discredit you. When you go out of your way not to have babies in either case you have the time and resources to pursue people that don’t agree with you. I always get in trouble with them on here. They don’t like me and constantly attack me. I’m learning, slowly, to avoid those conversations.
Even if I get in trouble on here I at least continue to work out my feelings about things that have really hurt my life. It’s like a journal that allows me to say the wrong things to reflect upon the responses. It helps me to avoid saying the wrong things to people in real life. Pretty sad, I know. But that’s what fundamentalism does to a person. The mods don’t seem to understand, which is understandable to some level. So I just take my beatings like a good boy and hope they don’t beat me up too harshly.
Hopefully someone out there will read these things - blurps of my story and process it for something good, like revert back to the Church, repent and go to confession, go to RCIA, support pro-life functions, vote differently, love those that hate them, forgive their offenders, etc. I would never say the things I say on here to most people I know because most people have a very difficult time processing stuff like this. And if I could afford it I’d take it to therapy. I’ve been there many years, and still could use it. But I also know I have a lot to offer.
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Dokimas
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Find the thread I was speaking about and you’ll see my point.
I can assure you the CC exists and is not a lie.
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PbloPicasso
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Of course the CC exists and is not a lie. That was my point.What I was saying is that after defecting from CC I became very anti-Catholic because I truly believed Catholics would be lost if they did not convert to what I thought to be the true Church that Christ established. When I first started reading Church of Christ Christians converting to Catholicism I set out to try to save them and it backfired on me. I reverted in 2006, followed my my wife and 3 children in 2007 at the Easter Vigil Mass. It was a beautiful experience. The more I tried to disprove Catholicism the closer I came to proving it was actually true. I had to eat a lot of crow and to this day I still apologize to people I proselytized. I thought I was doing God’s will.
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Dokimas
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Just because the CC exists and is not a lie does NOT mean that every thing believed about the church or taught by the church are 100% correct.
What I was saying is that after defecting from CC I became very anti-Catholic because I truly believed Catholics would be lost if they did not convert to what I thought to be the true Church that Christ established. When I first started reading Church of Christ Christians converting to Catholicism I set out to try to save them and it backfired on me. I reverted in 2006, followed my my wife and 3 children in 2007 at the Easter Vigil Mass. It was a beautiful experience. The more I tried to disprove Catholicism the closer I came to proving it was actually true. I had to eat a lot of crow and to this day I still apologize to people I proselytized. I thought I was doing God’s will.
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Erich
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As individual members of the Body of Christ, we are all human (and can of course err). I will agree that not everything taught by everyone in the Church is 100% correct, and I will also agree that not everything believed about the Church is 100% correct; or, as Archbishop Sheen put it, “There are not more than a handful of people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they BELIEVE to be the Catholic Church.”
But the Church itself has “an official position” on (some, not all) matters of faith and morals. This “official position” is correct, even if not everyone is “on board” with it.
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PbloPicasso
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You speak like a Catholic educated Protestant. You’ve thrown the baby out with the bath water from where I’m standing. I did exactly the same thing many years ago. How can you read ancient history and not come to realize that there was but one Church and the rest were heresies off on some Gnostic type trip?
My best guess is that your holding onto anti-Catholic positions because of other Protestants that feed your anti-Catholic beliefs. It is not based on reality as a whole, but maybe in part. Would you leave Jesus because of Judas? Would you leave the Church because of Peter’s denial of Jesus? What about leaving because the first apostles fled from Jesus in the garden? Why continue to deny the historical facts that point to the one holy catholic and apostolic church? It’s submitting to a higher authority that is probably causing this rift.
I hope you continue searching, brother. The true is a relief once you figure it out. I started out fighting online trying to convince others they might not be saved if they didn’t face the truth as I held it. It’s not just the Church in and of itself that holds the truth but the leaders of the Church in union with the body of bishops (including the bishop of Rome in particular) as a whole that hold the deposit of faith. You might be able to justify not being Catholic in particular, but there is no way you can justify not being Orthodox at a minimum. These are to two from the beginning that used to be one and somewhere down the road one broke off of the other, putting them in schism from the Body of Christ. Together they make the one body. It’s history.
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benedictus2
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The problem is some people think that the Gospel boils down to relativism and inclusivity. They have somehow morphed Jesus into some tree hugging sissy.
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