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elvisman
Guest
Never mind. It seems to continue to go over your head.
PS - the term, rather, the sentiment behind “IMO” (In My Opinion) is the reason for the spiritually prideful ecclesiastical divorce that is Protestantism.
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PS - the term, rather, the sentiment behind “IMO” (In My Opinion) is the reason for the spiritually prideful ecclesiastical divorce that is Protestantism.
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Dokimas
Guest
John 16: 12 "I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
13 "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
14 "He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.
15 "All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.
Acts 9:4 Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”
5 And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads.”
Looking for where Jesus mentioned His church and it’s just not there without reading into, which as you know is potentially dangerous.
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elvisman
Guest
Unfortunately - you have BOTH because you follow the vain precepts of men.
I follow Jesus and I’ll stick to the Church HE established and not some sect started by a flawed man.
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elvisman
Guest
Again, it goes over your head.
Who was Saul persecuting? PLEASE tell me.
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Dokimas
Guest
Be careful; remember Jesus said there was one authorized reason for divorce: adultery. Maybe those you of accused of divorcing has done so because of adultery?
BTW (meaning ‘by the way’), using IMO is better than what you do when you say in so many words, ‘I am correct.’ IMO give room for discussion. “I am correct and you are wrong” ends discussion and lacks humility.
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elvisman
Guest
And Protestantism is ecclesiastical adultery.
I am not right - Jesus is. Jesus gave his Authority to his Church, therefore the Church is right.
**I won’t twist or bend the Church’s teachings or leave them open for discussion for you or anybody else, including my wife and family because if the Church is wrong - Jesus is a liar. **
The truth is the TRUTH and cannot be compromised.
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Dokimas
Guest
Actually I read the Bible for myself. I’m sure I’m not always correct. I therefore thank God vor His mercy. I hope I’m never so proud and ignorant to think my answers are always correct.
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elvisman
Guest
Acts 8:3
Saul, meanwhile, was trying to destroy the church; entering house after house and dragging out men and women, he handed them over for imprisonment.
Acts 9:4-5
**He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?" **
**He said, “Who are you, sir?” The reply came, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting." **
Jesus equates his very self with his Church.
’Nuff said.
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2nd_Adam
Guest
The Church is the body of Christ in whom Christ died for. Please give me your view of the members of the church.Acts 8:3
Saul, meanwhile, was trying to destroy the church; entering house after house and dragging out men and women, he handed them over for imprisonment.
Acts 9:4-5
He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?"
He said, “Who are you, sir?” The reply came, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting."
Jesus equates his very self with his Church.
’Nuff said.
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elvisman
Guest
I already showed you several times:
John 16:12-15
***"I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now. ***
**But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming. ****He will glorify me, because he will take from what is mine and declare it to you. **
*Everything that the Father has is mine; for this reason I told you that he will take from what is mine and declare it to you. *
He gave it to his CHURCH:
**Matt. 16:15-19 **
***He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” ***
***Simon Peter said in reply, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” **Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. ***
**And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. **
**I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” **
Matt. 18:15-18
***"If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. ***
***If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ ****If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector. *
Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
1 Tim. 3:15
***But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is **the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth. *
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elvisman
Guest
First, tell me who you consider to have the Authority from Jesus in the following verses:
Matt. 16:15-19, 18:15-18, John 16:12-15, 20-21-23.
Is it your denomination?
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CWBetts
Guest
The Church is not some nebulous, invisible organism. It is visible. If it was invisible, how could one go to it to settle disputes? There is One true Church, with thousands of pretenders why try to make claims.
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Dokimas
Guest
Got to go but for starters, Paul founded this church, not Peter. So it can’t be the CC or the RCC.
1 Tim. 3:15
FYI, most of us that are Christians but not Catholic, think the Church of Jesus Christ is very important, but that it is not your CC. If you are one of God’s children by the Blood of Jesus you are a member of His Body, the Church.
1 Tim. 3:15
But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.
FYI, most of us that are Christians but not Catholic, think the Church of Jesus Christ is very important, but that it is not your CC. If you are one of God’s children by the Blood of Jesus you are a member of His Body, the Church.
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elvisman
Guest
Paul** started the Church?? Who taught you *****that ***rubbish?
**According to Scripture, Jesus gave authority to Peter (Matt. 16:15-19) and the Church was born on Pentecost. Paul wasn‘t ****even **a believer at the time.
If you’re speaking of the Church in Rome - it was BOTH of them, according to the Early Church Fathers.
All those who believe in Christ and that salvation is only through him and are baptized can certainly be considered Christians – albeit separated Christians because they reject his Church, as you do.
As for you thinking the Church is merely important – that’s the difference. We believe it to be the Body of Christ, of which he is the Head. It is not merely an “organization”.
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2nd_Adam
Guest
There is a visible and invisible church. The Catholic Church does teach a version of this if you look close enough.
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elvisman
Guest
NOT according to Jesus:
Matt. 5:14-16
**"You are the light of the world. A city set on a mountain cannot be hidden. **
**Nor do they light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket; it is set on a lampstand, where it gives light to all in the house. **
Just so, your light must shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your heavenly Father."
The Church is VISIBLE - not invisible. The Catholic Church is INDEED the most visible and the most persecuted.
PS - STILL waiting for an answer to post #996.
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CWBetts
Guest
What is you basis for there not being a visible Church?
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2nd_Adam
Guest
There’s defintely a visible church. However, our marks of a true visible church differ within the Reformed Faith and the Catholic Faith. The invisible church known by God is a mix of Christians from the various Christian communities.
monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/visible.html
We all worship at a visible church in which we understand to be the most truthful church… at least within driving distance from our homes.
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