I grew up in a fundamentalist Southern Baptist family. Something like Our Lady of Guadalupe actually made Catholics appear to be a cult like religion to them. Many are fine with Mary (no BVM or MoG…etc). To the branch of Protestantism I grew up in, she was merely a common girl that carried Christ for 9 months and then became a common girl once more. IC, Assump, PV…are all “works of the devil to trick them away from Christ.”
I disagree. We are told to come boldly to the throne of Grace via Jesus. God is now my Father, my Abba.
But this is the theological novelty, isn’t it?
But did God prohibit going through…say His Mother, with all sense of humility?
Not unless scripture contains theological novelty… but then again, I guess it does!
Not quite ancient enough for many of us protestants.
I’m going to “surprise” everyone and say, yes. And, we are told precisely Who is going to be sent to lead and guide; The Holy Spirit. Prayers to the Father, through the Son and in His Name, with the help of the Spirit.
Job is alive on earth at that point, not in Heaven. Further, one of the major acts of Christ’s death was to open the way for everyone to approach God the Father through Him. Hence the ripping open of the Holy of Holies, and Jesus telling us specifically to pray in the manner taught by Him.
Yes. I do think that some border on Bibliolatry.
Not sure if you’re being facetious here or not…but how do you determine whether a person is worshipping the Bible or merely treating it with reverence?I might.
And yet, I presume, your pastor has a prayer chain at your church, yes?
I was being a little facetious.
But, I think that would be an interior question. Just as if someone praying in front of a statue tells me they are NOT praying to it, then I feel charity is in order to believe it, though I can’t know for 100% fact, but I would trust them!Some congregations I’ve attended do, some don’t. Again, there is a fundamental difference in talking to a person in flesh right next to me, or even over the phone vs. invoking/communing with someone who has already passed on.
Indeed.I was being a little facetious.
So is your objection not that we don’t go straight to Jesus, but that you don’t believe those in heaven can hear us?
I agree.
I think (and I do hope this is something that everyone can kind of see with most protestants) that Jesus sacrifice changed the game in every way imaginable. It was part of His intent to provide us a deeper and direct relationship with the Father. He died to provide that Way for me, and also provided a new relationship by sending the Holy Spirit. So, yes, I believe we are instructed to pray to the Father, but it is more than that for me… it is honoring His sacrifice.
Can I ask then, why did Jesus say that whoever does the will of the Father is His sister, mother, brother? Very specific, and He doesn’t say Father.
I was under the impression the RCC taught that once we are properly baptized we are a part of the RCC? Maybe not, though. Someone fill me in? Further, and I really really don’t mean this harshly, why would she try to “bring us home” in a way that most of us protestants would not respond to?
You are imperfectly joined to the CC, if you were properly baptized.
So, has anyone ever told you that he is actually worshipping the inanimate object, (and thus prompting your comment, facetious or not, that you sometimes do construe someone as worshipping the Bible)?
Amen!
Very Catholic, this!
Of course. The gap between the saints in heaven and God, as far as our natures go, is infinite.
And yet Jesus communicated with those who have passed on when he He was transfigured, yes?
Asking someone to pray for you in no way indicates that she had to die for your sins in order to accomplish this.
St. Paul does.
I really should have said “they do not accept Mary as mother”. Mary of course is everyone’s Mother.
Is being outside of Christ’s Church is doing the will of the Father?
No, but we would both agree that it can happen, and actually has happened many times in the past. I have actually warned the protestants on a message board that I mod to make sure they don’t slip into that very thing.
It does for me. Meaning, prayer toward the Heavenlies is to be directed at God the Father as directed.
It is well and good to pray for one another, yes, and is perfectly fine to ask a living, flesh and blood person to pray.
However, we are limited in scope, understanding, knowledge, and limited to using various tools. I don’t pray to you to ask you to pray to me. I believe my pipeline to my fellow saints in Heaven is God Himself. For example, if I miss my Grandma, I don’t pray to her, I pray to God and ask, very politely, that if it is in His will to let my Grandma know I miss her. I wouldn’t presume she is watching and listening to me every second of every day and anyone else who may be speaking to her, but I know for a 100% fact that God is and I’m commanded to speak to Him only via prayer.
Jesus is God.
Even in the incarnation He has knowledge and abilities we don’t possess.It doesn’t say who or what collects them, however.
Prayer, Spiritual communication, is something I reserve to direct at God alone for all that He has done, and to honor the Trinity and the Sacrifice of the Son. No one else has ever done that, and are not God.
He tells us to pray to those believers that are dead in Christ? I’d also be interested in seeing where he, or any other Apostle, prayed to someone already with the Lord.
I’m an adopted daughter of the King, part of the body of Christ and His One True Church.
But the point is that we can’t know from outward appearance whether any person is worshipping a Bible or a statue, vs showing reverence. In order for us to know whether a Bible or a statue is being worshipped, the alleged worshipper must tell us what her intentions are.
So you are not against intercessory prayer.
Can you identify what Bible verse says that those in heaven are to be excluded from intercessory prayer?It is well and good to pray for one another, yes, and is perfectly fine to ask a living, flesh and blood person to pray.
