Protestants as "brethren"

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I guarantee YOU TODAY, Christianity in a SMALL WORLD, mostly NOT CHRISTIAN, WILL NO LONGER HAVE GREAT PROBLEMS with ITSELF!

There EXISTS TOO MANY OTHER/OTRO GRAVE PROBLEMS in the WORLDLY ARENA to even take the time to wonder ,“WHO’S THE BEST WANT TO BE CHRISTIAN TODAY?”

For that matter, all of JUDA-CHRISTIANITY comprizes only less than 1/3 if this world. THIS HIGHLY EDUCATED WORLD with MORE MATH AND SCIENCE GRADUATES IN CHINA than in these UNITED STATES, is CHANGING in SERIOUS DEMOGRAPHIC proportions! A Global REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH, by means of EDUCATION!
 
You know this reminds me of Jesus day when the Jews where not accepting Him. So what did he do, He went to the Gentiles…
What’s the big deal. I am Catholic and I accept my brothers and sisters where they are because I believe that God has them right where He wants them at this time… Are we being judgemental or what… Yes I believe that we are the true Church and nothing will ever change that. Then answer me this question: If we were all Catholics
then what would be the sense for us sowing and reaping? Or why would we want to go out and evangelize??
I guess that I could go on but what is the point - I won’t change peoples mind or ways, but if I continue to do what I am suppose to do and not worry about what God has to do after that, then I have done my part and God is happy… God Bless everyone. Ray. 👍
 
I go so far as to call them bretheren, but I understand there is a seperation there. Being a former Protestant it is a seperation which is only too clear now. I just hope and pray that Catholics will continue to have love for them and patience with them even when their behavior towards us sometimes is rude and ignorant. As Pope John Paul II has reminded us all over the last few years, the church needs to work for unity so that we can bring more people to Christ and work together against the Culture of Death in our world.
 
well written, Spiritfilled

I often what is the most important characteristic of being Christian and I think it is an acknowledgement of Christ the King as Resurrected Redeemer. I suspect that is what qualifies us as brethren. Beyond that, Catholics and Protestants differ on many things, and I believe there is no unaminity of other matters amongs the various P. traitions [e.g role of Mary or existence of original sin.] I believe P., taken as a group, do not hate Catholics–contrary to the opinion of SS

As for what is the most important characteristic of being Catholic, I suspect is is the unequivocal acknowledgement of the Pope–the Holy Father–as the infallible successor of Jesus Christ, and hence, the acceptance of ordinary magisterium as indefectible.

My parting thought reverts to family, and what constitutes membership in it–acknowledgement of Christ the King as Resurrected Redeemer…or…unequivocal acknowledgement of the Pope–the Holy Father–as the infallible successor of Jesus Christ.
 
Separation and segregation of different groups of people always leads to pain, for if groups are separated, they are inherently unequal (therefore, one group is inherently better than the other). Inclusion is a step in the right direction. If we see everyone as a part of God’s kingdom and therefore a part of ourselves, we will be less likely to pass judgement and hurt others.

Further, if heaven is only open to the people of one religion (as so many people from different religions claim), why would God create so many different religions that have essentially the same principles, but different traditions?

Regardless of what we call ourselves, it is important to recognize that for any soul, a recognition of God and a sense of spirituality, hope, and goodwill towards others will lead this world in the right direction.
 
ISCHNISA,
I no longer like the term ‘Protestant’ because it sounds angry and polemical, and that is not what I think is needed in this present hour. But I do believe in the Real Presence, that is why I’m going to an LCMS congregation and have communed there for a couple of years. After walking out of an autocephalous Baptist church twice after they put the word “symbol” in Jesus mouth in the words of institution. I don’t think any Bible-believing Christian can reject Real Presence after they’ve read 1 Corinthians 10 and 11 in the original Greek. And I’m willing to say that “form” and “accidents” are meaning the same thing. So is my Pastor, as near as I can tell.

As to the modal monarchian heretics calling themselves “oneness Pentacostals”. They do not worship the same Jesus. At the very least, and they cannot maintain the same Gospel with such a belief. Protestants, on the other hand, agree with the three ecumenical councils and the canon of Scripture. If you can accept the Orthodox, and now even the Copts and Eastern Church, you can accept us, with caveats.

What if you were to consider the various denominations (which are a couple orders of magnitude fewer than legend would have it) to be lay orders out of fellowship with Rome. Rome has suppressed orders before, including the Franciscans and the Jesuits, and yet there was a way to bring them back in. Something to ponder? Work out?

Blue Sky, Catholics are not known for having no controversies or cognitive dissonances. Two words: John Kerry.
 
Exporter, not just the Pope, but the Counciliar documents as well. How can you be a Roman Catholic and disagree with that which makes you a Roman Catholic instead of a Lutheran or an Orthodox? That testimony is a very sad one. Would it help if I mentioned considerably less than a tithe of the good things that I can say about the Roman Catholic Church? Let me know. I’d be happy too, if I’m allowed to have human limits as to how long I can physically and mentally go on?

Snowdog, actually, it was certain individuals of less than savory character, who nonetheless held church office in the 16th century (and in the 11th century and the 14th century) who kicked us out, we did not leave of our own accord. Jan Hus and Melancton never thought of themselves as anything but Catholic. I’m fairly sure the same thing can be said of the illegal order called the Waldensians, who continued to go to Mass, but preached without permission, the need for conversion. Just like JPII. They may have been over-rigorous, though, as some legal orders have been from time to time.

Michael Doyle, the problems in Protestantism to which you refer began decades earlier, with the Modernist Heresy as it is termed in Catholicism. This led to numerous orthodox denominations starting up, believing what the older denominations used to. But once you have been taught the modernist heresy (virtually indistinguishable from Deism) from childhood, sexual “liberation” is easy to swallow.
 
BTW, I was never taught to hate Catholics. I was taught, by former Catholics, all sorts of nonsense about what the Catholic Church teaches, even by Jeff’n’Emily. . . The catechesis crisis. . .

I was taught that they were greatly in need of the Gospel. Ironically, due to that same catechetical crisis, far too many -are-. But they can get that on EWTN as well as from me. The goal matters, not the channel. As ECT states, we should work to convert to Christ, not to our organization. Especially when on this side of the Tiber, our organization is seen as only a local manifestion of the Church, not the ding an sich.

And, I was taught in Pastoral Theology my senior year in seminary (which in Protestant denominations is just grad school, there is no spiritual formation, even though we all, prof and student alike wished that there was something like it, we just didn’t know so much as the term) that schism is in and of itself, evil, so we need to study for ourselves why we aren’t Catholics, and if there is not reason sufficient for schism, well. . .

I wonder how many of my classmates took it to heart. And when the prof only has SLU Jesuits to know Catholicism from. Well, Ignatius Loyola jolly well wouldn’t recognize them.

I thought you might find that interesting. Oh, there are so many ironies.

In membership class, we were handed out this week a chart supposedly showing the differences between Lutheran, Reformed, Arminian and Catholic beliefs. They only got the Lutheran beliefs right. It is so interesting to hear Pastor talking about the sins that in our daily relationship with Christ of repentance, faith and obedience, sin doesn’t cut us off from God, but that we need to repent, but that there is sin that does, and then we need to go to confession. So I ask, “mortal sin versus venial sin?” and he says ‘no’, gives a whack understanding of the Catholic teaching on that - that he sincerely believes to be factual, and then gives the LCMS view, which sure sounds like the -real- Catholic view to me. . .

And, back to Michael Doyle’s comments: Oh, yeah, Protestants have always looked to part of Augustine ;-), and Norm Geisler, one of the last living orthdox, generic Evangelical scholars in academia, is studying Aquinas as a paradigm for evangelical theology, and you can’t help but to learn loads from Mitch Pacwa and Father Benedict Groeschel (who -does- understand us evangelicals!) and Scott Hahn, formerly of the denomination of whose seminary I graduated from, and he didn’t attend - and one of the better teachers of Covenant Theology that I’ve heard. . .

So, please bear with us. And, as I’ve said before, I am deeply convinced that we all need to band together in this present hour.
 
Sparkle, I don’t know what outfit your Prot friend is with, but the Protestants -I- know, including myself, were deeply gratified to be called separated brethren. And of course, it was in the shield-wall - the pro-life picket lines, when we got to understand that there were these Catholics, and like, they believe the same Gospel we do, and like, how is that possible? But isn’t it great! 🙂

On the definition of “heretic” I have always understood that as applying to a holder to beliefs which being held, deny salvation - in otherwords, a different Gospel. Donald Bloesch, a neo-orthodox theologian in Dubuque, then chooses to use the word ‘heterodox’ in a technical manner, to refer to beliefs which are wrong, but do not deny salvation. If one chooses to use that definition, would that not be how Protestants and Catholics would now understand each other?

And, it isn’t “picking and choosing”. That would be horrifically sinful.

The saints, being with the Lord, would presumably know the truth. And, I trust, know that we are fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.

St. Stevarino, Your talking about the Protestants (the orthodox evangelicals, not the Deists) having unity in their organizational chaos, and Catholics having organizational unity but doctrinal chaos has seemed to be true to me for a long time. If Catholics had the Protestant tendency to expel and split, they would have doctrinal unity 🙂 But then you say that we all think that Catholics are evil. uhuh, no way, not true. Some do, more and more of us don’t. We just don’t agree with every jot and title that somehow got included as dogma that must be believed. My response is much more “where did you get that?” and “ok, what is the historiography of that teaching, or legend or whatever” Inotherwords, as they say in Missouri: “show me!”

Pax, actually the wish that Protestants not come closer to the Catholic Church, and even on in, for one who believes that you have to be all the way in to be saved (the Feenyite heresy) is in fact hateful. Damnably so, and in the theological sense of the term.

That is a awe-some sermon. I think we can add that if one does know the Shepherd, and yet believes onesself to be in a valid paddock, and that there are more paddocks than one, yet all part of the One Flock. . .
 
Havala, truth is One. Yet there are many propositions,

God didn’t create many religions. He taught one. Human sin, and demonic deception, lead to there being many religions.

And also many fragments of Christ’s bride, which is still one religion, not many. We don’t disagree on the Truth, we disagree on our human systematics. And somebody has to be wrong some of the time, and maybe we all are some of the time. As long as we try to follow Christ, and become more like Him, we can trust Him to lead us aright. It is when we turn aside to something tempting, or avoid a hard thing out of fear, or start to build our own kingdoms, that we aren’t moving closer together, as we follow the same Good King. And dare I say “simul justus et peccator” even as we truly try to follow Him, we find our selves getting off track in such sins, and then back on track and so on.
 
Hi there. About the issue of brotherhood. How is someone saved? By grace, through faith. This not of ourselves, lest any man should boast. (ephesians). So when I talk to people about salvation, be they professing catholics or protestants, I want to ascertain their knowledge of grace. So I ask a question along these lines: So when you die, and you face God, and he asks you, “Why should I let you into my heaven?” what do you think you’d tell him?

Typical answers are: Because I’m a good person. or, I’m not perfect, but I’ve done my best.

What do you think of this type of question? Sure, God won’t have to ask us questions, everything will all be known. The question goes to motivations, and merit. Is the person trusting in himself and his own merit, or is he trusting in christ alone and his merits?

Generally speaking, that’s what I think of when it comes to who is my brother or sister in christ, trusting in yourself, or trusting in Christ’s death? What is your take on this, I really want to hear Catholic perspectives on this, as I am an evangelical protestant. Thanks!
 
I attend both Catholic and Evangelical Protestant services each week as I’m Catholic and my husband is not. As a cradle Catholic, who has “tried out” various denominations over the years, I’ve come to grow in LOVE with my faith and am only beginning to recognize the true blessing I have being part of the church Christ himself established here on earth.

It seems the statements “saved by grace” and “trusting in Christ” can be taken too simply by many. We can never forget that obedience to the will of God and actively following Christ is what we will be standing up for on our final judgment. God’s grace and our faith in him serves as our foundation and enables us to follow him. How we make use of these gifts and live out our faith will determine if we will be judged as “good and faithful servants”, not just what we believed. As I listen to the E.P services each week I hear more emphasis on faith (what we believe) but less on obedience (how we live). In fact, I hear statement saying directly that “we can do nothing to bring about our salvation”. This seems to form a direct contradiction to our call to be obedient. I feel the link between our faith and our obligation to be obedient is often lost and my heart breaks that this critical link, which must lead us to salvation, is not clearly understood and shared in all churches that profess to be Christian. How can we be “one” if such great differences exist?

May God have mercy on us all.
 
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chipster52:
John Paul II called Billy Graham a Brother in Christ…not a Separated Brother in Christ.
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The separation is not due to our choice, it is theirs. Each and every one is welcome back at any time.

God Bless.
 
After praying hard about this topic - which bothered me from the moment I read it - I’d like to offer this to those who believe Protestants are not brethren, or say they are “separated brethren”:

We are all God’s wonderful creation, which makes him our one and only Father. If we are not all brethern, that negates this statement.

So which do you believe? Which does faith teach us??
 
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NewChristian27:
After praying hard about this topic - which bothered me from the moment I read it - I’d like to offer this to those who believe Protestants are not brethren, or say they are “separated brethren”:

We are all God’s wonderful creation, which makes him our one and only Father. If we are not all brethern, that negates this statement.

So which do you believe? Which does faith teach us??
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There is no doubt that we are all God’s children. He loves each of us as his sons and daughters.

He wishes for all of us to have life in its fullness.

Though this makes us all “brethren”, one family with the same Father, this does not preclude us from making distinctions in how we should relate and interact with various individuals.

The degree to which individuals embrace God and his Church are the primary contributor to those distinctions.

There are hundreds of men and women that I greet with a hug and a kiss and call “brother” and “sister”, but this is because we have chosen to be part of the family, the Church.

Unfortunately, there are many billions more, that would reject this greeting (and probably think me a nut for greeting them this way.)

I think that “separated bretheren” is a good way to describe our relationship.

Though I hope and pray for unity, that we all be one as Jesus and the Father are one, it is clear that we are not.

The closer the relationship, the more painful the separation.

I grieve and I pray most for those members of my own immediate family that are “separated brethren”. A father, a brother, an aunt, an uncle.

I greive dearly and I pray for my “separated brethren” who are Catholic in name only, “Chreasters”, as my children refer to them.

I grieve and I pray for the “separted brethren” who love Christ with their whole heart, but choose for various reasons not to accept the fullness the faith handed down from the Apostle. Some who simply don’t see the distinction, others who openly hate the Church and all for which she stands.

I grieve and I pray for all those “separted bretheren” who do not have Christ in their life at all. Those who love God. Those who reject him.

I pray and I hope that through love we will all one day be simply brother and sister. That I can embrace every man, woman and child on this planet, as brother and sister in Christ.

But it seems clear from God’s word there will be separated bretheren to the vary end.

Chuck
 
I have one question in mind and it is:
When God created heaven and earth, and all that is in it, above it, below it, then did he not create Adam and Eve…
And so my question is this: If we believe that we are all descendents of Adam and Eve, then are we not from the same familly? therefore what separated us? (sin) but because their is sin in our family does that mean that we are not family any longer?
Take a good look at what God allowed to happen between Moise’
sons, and because of that separation two families emerged. One was Jewish and the other as we know it today are Muslins…
From the Jewish family came our Lord Jesus Christ and from the muslins came Allah, but if you take a good look at this picture
and try putting it all together them you have to agree that both
nations came from the same God, Then if you believe this to be true
it end up that we are all from the same GOD. I know that we have big difference and I believe that only through prayer can all of this be resolved… You and I brothers and sisters in Christ have to follow the Commandments and love our neighbors as we love ourselves… In a family you put up with a lot of nonsense, yet at some point you must resolved whatever is separating you, but if you never do does that mean that the one who remains in the family will go to heaven and be with God and the other cast into a
place where they shall never see the face of God… I personally do not believe that… I don’t think that I am any better than anyone else or even worst than anyone else… I will agree that because of the separation there will be someone who is missing out on an awful lot, and so we in turn must learn to pray for them but i think that an extra effort should be made on our part so that we can bring the body of Christ together again so that we can be unified… I hope this makes sense… All I can do is pray and maybe pray even more than more but I also can come together with my brothers and sister and try to heal the wounds
So let us PRAY… RAY O
 
The Catholic Answers tract on heresies, list “protestantism” as a heresy, and is second to last on their list…so how can heretics be brethren? They would have to be more than separated…
 
They are bretheren if they were Baptized. Most all Protestant sects have "valid " Baptism therefore are “Brothers (and Sisters too) in Christ”.
 
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kidderdoc:
The Catholic Answers tract on heresies, list “protestantism” as a heresy, and is second to last on their list…so how can heretics be brethren? They would have to be more than separated…
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Protestants are heretics only in the formal sense, unless they attempt to sow dissension in a Catholic community. Catholics who openly hold to doctrines contrary to Church teaching are heretics. The irony is that a Methodist like George Bush is more in tune with Catholic moral teachings than many nominal Catholics.
 
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JHutch:
They are bretheren if they were Baptized. Most all Protestant sects have "valid " Baptism therefore are “Brothers (and Sisters too) in Christ”.
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If they baptize in the name of the Holy Trinity, then they are indeed brethren in Christ. But since they differ with Caholicism on several major points, such as Justification, and the Eucharist, not to mention their rejection of Papal jurisdiction, in that sense they are separated. Therefore it is reasonable to call them separated brethren.

Gerry 🙂
 
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