Protestants as "brethren"

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kidderdoc:
The Catholic Answers tract on heresies, list “protestantism” as a heresy, and is second to last on their list…so how can heretics be brethren? They would have to be more than separated…
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CCC 817 In fact, “in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame.” The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism - do not occur without human sin:
818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers. . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”
(my bold)

scborromeo.org/ccc/ccc_toc.htm
 
Bob Rowland:
Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus!
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CCC - scborromeo.org/ccc/ccc_toc.htm

“Outside the Church there is no salvation”

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Code: 
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Code: 
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338

817 In fact, “in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame.” The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism - do not occur without human sin:
818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers. . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”

Can Outsiders Be Insiders?
By Fr. Peter M.J. Stravinskas
envoymagazine.com/backissues/2.5/coverstory.html
 
(Church of Scotland is a presbyterian church)

GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE CHURCH OF SCOTLAND

ADDRESS BY CARDINAL KEITH PATRICK O’BRIEN

ASSEMBLY HALL, MOUND PLACE, EDINBURGH

FRIDAY 21 MAY 2004

As we remember our common roots; as we remember that call to service which goes out to us all; let us also remember that basic importance of our prayer together. We go forward for our own good and for the good of all peoples; for the sake of our Churches and for those of other faiths and of none; for the ongoing growth of Christianity in our country and in the world, working together with all peoples of goodwill.

May God bless the Moderator and this General Assembly in all your deliberations. May we all continue to pray and work together for the wellbeing of our nation and may the faith of all peoples in our country strengthen and grow. Thank you most sincerely.

archdiocese-edinburgh.com/cardinal/genassembly.htm
 
I have several Protestant/Evangelical friends at work. I can tell you, the more I see the Godless world spinning toward its own destruction, the more I appreciate the simple faith of these men. I have far more in common with them than I do with the worldly, relativistic, amoral people who call themselves “enlightened liberals”.

My Evangelical friends and I often share our love of Jesus, our enthusiasm for the bible, and our commitment to Christian morality. Sometimes I will ask their opinion of the day’s mass reading and share my insights with them. At least now they know that the mass has a lot of bible in it.

They often ask me questions about Catholicism, and I have had to deal with all the usual misconceptions about our faith. But when I explain it to them calmly, with charity, they are very accepting and open-minded.

Of course, I have to know my faith to explain it! 😉

I am not trying to convert them, and they know that. I know that I cannot convert anyone, but perhaps I can smooth the road for the Holy Spirit.

I also share with those Catholics at work who are luke-warm or fallen away. I ache for them sometimes. There is only one other devout Catholic in the whole corporation.

God bless us all,
Paul
 
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montanaman:
I used to think Protestants were children of the devil. Then, cooler heads prevailed and I softened, tending to think of them as a big, mysterious question mark. Many of them really inspired me.

But now, I don’t know. They shift and change their beliefs. They’re awesomely capable of cognitive dissonance. They are always interrogating me, making me justify my Christianity, as though I have some radical new system of beliefs that needs to be explained.

After talking to them, I feel like I need a shower.
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Montana you made me spew my drink laughing out loud!

I have a constant discussion at work with a protestant and their smug belief that I am going to hell because we hold to traditions as on par with the scriptures just kills me.
 
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CatholicCrusade:
I chose No, Sowers of Discord
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sowers of discord they may be, but most of them, honestly believing that they know the truth and catholics are wrong somewhere.
as bishop fulton sheen said, there are not a hundred who hate the catholic church, but thousands who hate what they mistakenly believe the church to be (not the exact words)

sometimes, i wonder what i would be if i were born into a protestant family. i mean, would i actually get all the info i get now about the church; if i did, would i find the courage to convert despite opposition from all directions
and i thank god that i was born in a catholic family and got a chance to know the lord within the church

please note, i’m not expressing any doubt in the church itself, but in myself
thanks
 
yes they are our brothers and sisters. If Christ died only for Catholics , it would not be fair. Some of these people have a personal relationship with Christ and are very spiritual people
 
Just an thought,

But Wil Peregrin’s posts seem to be the most insightful in my opinion.

I submit to a disciplined order, but only because I was raised in it, and I understand it.

If one produces good fruit in the name of Christ and his teachings, then surely he is destined for the Kingdom of God.
 
I think “estranged brethren” has an apt connotation. Their beliefs today are quite varied and rather different, as a set comparison, from those originally held by Luther and others in the 1500s. And since the Church should be one in faith, teaching, and authority, the difference reflects a definite estrangement. I think to be friendly, the Church only calls them “separated”.
 
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RobedWithLight:
Separated brethren is certainly what the Church actually uses concerning Protestants, and who are we to question its wisdom.

Gerry 🙂
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The LAST 7 words of this quote comprise probably what is the major difference between Protestants and Catholics.
 
Yup, seperated brethren…like a teenager who got mad at Mom, put on his black leather jacket, and roared away on his motorcycle…he’s still your brother, ya gotta love him (a joke, don’t flame me).
 
Those who are privileged to share in the fullness of the Church’s riches of revealed wisdom, sacramental power, divinely assured guidance, and blessings of community life cannot pride themselves on having deserved what they possess. Rather they should humbly recognize their chosen position and gratefully live up to the covenant to which they have been called. Otherwise what began as a sign of God’s special favor on earth may end as a witness to his justice in the life to come.

Fr John Hardon SJ
ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ315.HTM
 
Absobloominglutely, the Protestants who are serious about their faith are my brothers and sisters in the Lord, though they are estranged at this time. If I treat them as “sowers of discord”, how will we EVER bring the entire Church back into Unity? How will they ever come to the fullness of the Faith if I don’t talk with them and share our beliefs and ideas? Calling them names just widens the gap.

I used to BE a Protestant so perhaps I have more understanding of who they are and where they are coming from. Not to equate non-Catholics with whores and tax collectors, but ask yourself this: Did Christ avoid the “undesirables” of His day and call them “sowers of discord”, or did He love them gently to the Truth?

Tonight’s agenda: dinner with a multi-denominational group that meets monthly, leaders of various churchs INCLUDING Catholic.
 
Yes, they are our brethren, even separated for the sake of technicalities. I have been visiting the churches in my area to familiarise myself with the place (Lutheran, Presbyterian, Mormon, and the local Masjid :p), and so far, they are a tad more calm then when I was a Pentecostal, lol.

When you attend some of them (excluding the masjid), they always have something reminiscent of the Mass. I was slightly amazed because after Mass (I attend the Novus Ordo), visiting the Lutheran church service, I was surprised that the Lutherans had their own communion railing (whilst my own church did not have one).

Let’s pray for them, because even though their services range dependent on feel-good stuff to traditional, they do not have the True Mass… I hope one day, we will all be in Mother Church… :gopray:
 
I’m a non-Catholic. I attend a Presbyterian Church on sundays for worship. I witness to people the rest of the week. (I’m part of a group of interdenominational men who teach creation apologetics.)

We all consider RCs to be in Christ, and definitely brethren.

Although, my sin is that I get quite mad when some RCs don’t feel the same towards me. I’m working on that.
 
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ScottH:
Although, my sin is that I get quite mad when some RCs don’t feel the same towards me. I’m working on that.
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Pray diligently for those people!
 
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ScottH:
I’m a non-Catholic. I attend a Presbyterian Church on sundays for worship. I witness to people the rest of the week. (I’m part of a group of interdenominational men who teach creation apologetics.)

We all consider RCs to be in Christ, and definitely brethren.

Although, my sin is that I get quite mad when some RCs don’t feel the same towards me. I’m working on that.
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You’re a rarity, lol. Most Evangelicals I know only consider Catholics as Christians in label only. Other than that, we’re not Christian because such ‘foreign’ practices! gasp

But you’re not alone. I get mad at the same reason Protestants do not consider Catholics as Christian. It’s a rare case in my area…

(oh, and btw, it’s not a sin to be angered in justice [DRV] and righteousness [KJV]! ^_^)

Pax vobiscum!
 
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