Protestants, did Jesus Christ gave us a Church with authority?

[justasking4]

If there is no infallible Church then you can throw away your Bible because the Catholic Church put the Bible in its full context in the first place and declared it to be the inspire Word of God.

Do you believe the Catholic Church is necessary for the Scriptures to be inspired-inerrant?

 

[M0nkey]

I believe that the CC is the ambasador, in other words, representative that God left on earth to continue on his work. The CC also canonized the scriptures and has safe guarded them throughout the centuries. Hope that helps…

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Do you believe the Catholic Church is necessary for the Scriptures to be inspired-inerrant?

The Catholic Church preserved and compiled the new testament writings.

Could a different group have been chose to accomplish this task?

In theory, yes, but in reality the Catholic Church played a vital and necessary role.

 

[Hajnalcsillag]

Protestants, can you explain 1Timothy 3:15?

Can you explain Matthew 23:9?

 

[Hajnalcsillag]

i would agree that ML was a very wicked man. so was calvin and the others.

where do you find in the Bible that Jesus would take the authority of His Church and give to another?

you guys continue to find fault in the CC. that is fine. now go your ways and stop to arguing about it.

God saw it fit to tear the kingdom of Israel away from Saul after breaching the terms of kingship. Is it really out of the question that a church that was ruled by corruption and power would see its power diminished and authority and leadership given to another?

I believe it was Galileo (I may be wrong) who said something to the effect of, “I do not believe that a God who endowed us with reason and the ability to think would wish for us to forego their use.”

 

[Hajnalcsillag]

Actually, there was no Jewish Canon or a list put together by a Council. The Scripture in those days were 46 OT to include the Deutrocanonical Books but no Scrib made a declaration of any of them to be inspired. They were mainly use for Jewish worship service.

Jesus Christ did give infallible authority to the Church. He gave the Church the authority to bind and lose.

Just the Catholic Church and no one else? If that were the case, would there ever be a demon bound and a person freed outside of the CC?

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Just the Catholic Church and no one else? If that were the case, would there ever be a demon bound and a person freed outside of the CC?

See CCC:846, and environs. “Outside the Church there is no salvation.”

What do you mean by “a demon bound”, or “a person freed”?

There is no infallibility of proclaiming the truths of faith and morals other than from the Magisterium.

Those who say what the Magisterium says (as regards faith and morals), be they Catholics or otherwise, are speaking infallibly, while those who don’t aren’t (speaking infallibly).

One mustn’t be Catholic to speak the truth infallibly, but unless a thing is spoken by the Church as being an infallible truth it is not an infallible truth, which means it can’t be proclaimed AS an infallible truth.

Do you see where I’m going here?

 

[vincy]

The HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH DOES HAVE THE FULL DEPOSIT OF THE TRUTH…THE POPE AND THE BISHOPS HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO TEACH .HOWEVER IT DOES NOT SEEM TO GET OUT THERE TO THE MASSES FOR SOME REASON OR ANOTHER.CAN ANYONE SAY WHY NOT?

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

The HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH DOES HAVE THE FULL DEPOSIT OF THE TRUTH…THE POPE AND THE BISHOPS HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO TEACH .HOWEVER IT DOES NOT SEEM TO GET OUT THERE TO THE MASSES FOR SOME REASON OR ANOTHER.CAN ANYONE SAY WHY NOT?

A majority of the Christians in the world are Catholic.

There are over 1 billion Catholics.

That sounds like the masses to me.

 

[guanophore]

Do you believe the Catholic Church is necessary for the Scriptures to be inspired-inerrant?

This is an interesting question. It is like asking “did Mary have to say “yes” to the angel in order for Jesus to save the world?”

God can do whatever He wants, however He wants. He chose to build a Church. He chose to empower an authorize that Church. He chose to work through that church to produce, protect, canonize and promulgate the Bible. He chose to do these things through Catholic Church.

Is that necessary? No. That is just how He decided to do it.

 

[guanophore]

Can you explain Matthew 23:9?

Yes, but I don’t see what it has to do with this topic.

God saw it fit to tear the kingdom of Israel away from Saul after breaching the terms of kingship. Is it really out of the question that a church that was ruled by corruption and power would see its power diminished and authority and leadership given to another?

Not at all, however, the Church was not ruled by corruption and power. Certain men were, but the Church is the Body of Christ, He is her head, and she is ensouled by the Holy Spirit. This is why it is not possible for the church herself to be corrupted. The divine elements cannot become corrupted. Jesus has kept His Body pure because He cannot deny Himself.

Eph 5:29-31
9 For no one ever hates his own body, but he nourishes and tenderly cares for it, just as Christ does for the church, 30 because we are members of his body.

Eph 5:25-28
Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26 in order to make her holy by cleansing her with the washing of water by the word, 27 so as to present the church to himself in splendor, without a spot or wrinkle or anything of the kind — yes, so that she may be holy and without blemish.

I believe it was Galileo (I may be wrong) who said something to the effect of, “I do not believe that a God who endowed us with reason and the ability to think would wish for us to forego their use.”

Yes. Galileo was a Catholic, and this is Catholic teaching.

 

[guanophore]

Just the Catholic Church and no one else? If that were the case, would there ever be a demon bound and a person freed outside of the CC?

That was a big jump. There is only One Church, and the HS works through that One Church. The HS is can bind demons and free persons anywhere, regardless of their external, visible attachments. It is all through the work of His One Body.

 

[M0nkey]

Can you explain Matthew 23:9?

Jesus is repudiating the old law and the old covenant. In the old covenant, the scribes and pharisees were merely interpreters of the law. In the new covenant, he built his church upon a “rock with authority” (Mat. 16:18).

The reason we call a priest father is not for the same reasons we would call God our father. Priests are representatives of Christ here on earth. Therefore, they are servants to the community in which they serve. Just as Christ was our servant.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Just the Catholic Church and no one else? If that were the case, would there ever be a demon bound and a person freed outside of the CC?

Correct. No other Church have such authority. For the Catholic Church is the only Church that has the keys of the kingdom.

 

[elvisman]

My point was that each of these things need some study so we can determine which may be true in regards to their position.

Sorry it took so long to respond - I’ve been out of town for the last several days.
"Rome has spoken the case is closed" - St. Augustine on Pelagianism

These are just examples to demonstrate that the Catholic church has lots and lots of differences about important matters as in Protestant churches. Since there are differences in Protestant churches that leads to doctrinal chaos the same principle holds in the Catholic church since it to has a wide range of difference on important issues and beliefs.

Whereas people can have differing opinions on the things that aren’t a metter of spiritual life and spiritual death - they CANNOT disregard doctines and dogmas. If they do - as I indicated earlier - they’re just Protestants, now, aren’t they?
Protestants disagree with each other on doctrinal issues.

Do you know everything your church teaches? Do you interpret everything that your church teaches correctly?

As for whether or not I know “everything” my Church teaches to the letter, the answer is, “No”.

**BUT - I believe that when Jesus told the Apostles that the Holy Spirit would guide them (the Church) into ALL truth - I believe that he wasn’t lying. **
I also believe that when he said that whatever they bound in earth would be bound in heaven - he wasn’t lying, either.

 

[justasking4]

elvisman;4288660]Sorry it took so long to respond - I’ve been out of town for the last several days.
"Rome has spoken the case is closed" - St. Augustine on Pelagianism

Whereas people can have differing opinions on the things that aren’t a metter of spiritual life and spiritual death - they CANNOT disregard doctines and dogmas. If they do - as I indicated earlier - they’re just Protestants, now, aren’t they?
Do you believe every doctrine that your church has ever taught?

Protestants disagree with each other on doctrinal issues.

Do you have some examples?

As for whether or not I know "everything" my Church teaches to the letter, the answer is, “No”.

How do you know if you are correctly interpreting everything your church teaches?

BUT - I believe that when Jesus told the Apostles that the Holy Spirit would guide them (the Church) into ALL truth - I believe that he wasn’t lying.
**I also **believe that when he said that whatever they bound in earth would be bound in heaven - he wasn’t lying, either.

How do you know with certainty that you have the correct interpretation of this? How do you know if you are correct when Jesus promised to guide His apostles but He said nothing of leaders that would come centuries later?

 

[elvisman]

Do you believe every doctrine that your church has ever taught?

I already gave you this information in my post #77:

Where to begin?

Some believe in Consubstatiation - most other denominations believe it’s only symbolic.

Some believe in Baptismal regeneration - most others don’t.

**Some believe that works **are necessary - others don’t.

Some believe in predestination - others don’t.

Some are dispensationalists - others aren’t.

Shall I go on?

Do you have some examples?

**Again see Post #77 - or read above . . . **

How do you know if you are correctly interpreting everything your church teaches?

See, here’s the thing:
Jesus left us with the Church and the Holy Spirit’s guidance so that we wouldn’t be left wandering in a spiritual desert like Protestants with varying and quarreling degrees of authority.
In short - I don’t have to interpret for myself - as I follow the Authority left by Jesus himself.

How do you know with certainty that you have the correct interpretation of this? How do you know if you are correct when Jesus promised to guide His apostles but He said nothing of leaders that would come centuries later?

This is where you must count on faith and common sense.
**Jesus would not have left his Church in chaos with no leaders. **
What about the leaders of YOUR church? Were they mentioned in the bible?

There MUST be leadership and Authority (Matt. 16:16-19, 18:15-18).
There MUST be Apostolic succssession (Acts 1:20-26).

 

[justasking4]

**
Originally Posted by justasking4
Do you have a couple of examples what these denominations are quarrelling about?

elvisman
Where** to begin?

Some believe in Consubstatiation - most other denominations believe it’s only symbolic.

Some believe in Baptismal regeneration - most others don’t.

**Some believe that works **are necessary - others don’t.

Some believe in predestination - others don’t.

Some are dispensationalists - others aren’t.

Shall I go on?

To be sure there are differences of beliefs and opinions about these things. The same is also true in the Catholic church. Not everyone believes all the same things exactly alike.

What is the offical position of the Catholic church on predestination?

 

[SIA]

Correct. No other Church have such authority. For the Catholic Church is the only Church that has the keys of the kingdom.

Not the Orthodox church either?

 

[SIA]

I already gave you this information in my post #77:

Again see Post #77 - or read above . . .

See, here’s the thing:
Jesus left us with the Church and the Holy Spirit’s guidance so that we wouldn’t be left wandering in a spiritual desert like Protestants with varying and quarreling degrees of authority.
**In short - I don’t **have to interpret for myself - as I follow the Authority left by Jesus himself.

This is where you must count on faith and common sense.
Jesus would not have left his Church in chaos with no leaders.
**What about the leaders of YOUR **church? Were they mentioned in the bible?

There MUST be leadership and Authority (Matt. 16:16-19, 18:15-18).
There MUST be Apostolic succssession (Acts 1:20-26).

Do you actually believe what is spewing from yourself?