Protestants: Do you REALLY believe Scripture??

[nsper7]

not a good thing?

keeping the Commandments is NOT optional… it is required to get into Heaven… St. Mark 10:17 (etc, etc)…

They are NOT the 10 Suggestions…

I think you are misreading the intent of the story. It seems Jesus is showing the Rich Young Ruler that it is impossible to ‘inherit eternal life’ through good works. After all, on the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus had shown how to lust in one’s heart is the same as adultery and to curse one’s brother is the same as murder. Using that view (and verses such as Romans 3:10), it is clear the RYR could not have kept the Commandments since his youth in the perfect (good…only God is good, or perfect) way that God requires. Jesus showed the RYR how to be perfect and thus, through perfection, inherit eternal life.

In fact, Jesus Himself gives us the reason one should obey the Commandments (John 14:15). If one is keeping the Commandments simply to avoid Hell, where is the love in that (except self-love, or self-preservation)?

 

[TriuneUnity]

I think you are misreading the intent of the story. It seems Jesus is showing the Rich Young Ruler that it is impossible to ‘inherit eternal life’ through good works. After all, on the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus had shown how to lust in one’s heart is the same as adultery and to curse one’s brother is the same as murder. Using that view (and verses such as Romans 3:10), it is clear the RYR could not have kept the Commandments since his youth in the perfect (good…only God is good, or perfect) way that God requires. Jesus showed the RYR how to be perfect and thus, through perfection, inherit eternal life.

In fact, Jesus Himself gives us the reason one should obey the Commandments (John 14:15). If one is keeping the Commandments simply to avoid Hell, where is the love in that (except self-love, or self-preservation)?

Amen, nsper. Very well said.

 

[sola_scriptura]

I think you are misreading the intent of the story. It seems Jesus is showing the Rich Young Ruler that it is impossible to ‘inherit eternal life’ through good works. After all, on the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus had shown how to lust in one’s heart is the same as adultery and to curse one’s brother is the same as murder. Using that view (and verses such as Romans 3:10), it is clear the RYR could not have kept the Commandments since his youth in the perfect (good…only God is good, or perfect) way that God requires. Jesus showed the RYR how to be perfect and thus, through perfection, inherit eternal life.

In fact, Jesus Himself gives us the reason one should obey the Commandments (John 14:15). If one is keeping the Commandments simply to avoid Hell, where is the love in that (except self-love, or self-preservation)?

Very nice

 

[sola_scriptura]

Sola Scriptura said:
I agree with you, I chastise protestant groups for this type of nonsense [health and wealth gospel] all the time. However, if I were a Catholic I could sin, go to confession, say ten Hail Mary’s and maybe an Our Father, and I’m good to go right?

Not exactly.

If you choose to sin on Friday, with the idea that “I can go to confession on Saturday, and I’m good to go,” that’s a separate sin called presumption.

Or we can keep it simple … after all God already enumerated a name for it – it’s called lying.

You have to have contrition, which means you have to regret sinning. You have to have the intent to “go and sin no more.” Without those, the sacrament fails.

Ruthie

Again – if one has no intent or desire to cease their sinful behavior they are really not sorry for doing it – confession and repentance by nature is sorrow for sin and a plea to God so we may walk better in the future. So if one confesses something they intend to keep doing then they are a liar.

 

[SyCarl]

I think you are misreading the intent of the story. It seems Jesus is showing the Rich Young Ruler that it is impossible to ‘inherit eternal life’ through good works. After all, on the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus had shown how to lust in one’s heart is the same as adultery and to curse one’s brother is the same as murder. Using that view (and verses such as Romans 3:10), it is clear the RYR could not have kept the Commandments since his youth in the perfect (good…only God is good, or perfect) way that God requires. Jesus showed the RYR how to be perfect and thus, through perfection, inherit eternal life.

In fact, Jesus Himself gives us the reason one should obey the Commandments (John 14:15). If one is keeping the Commandments simply to avoid Hell, where is the love in that (except self-love, or self-preservation)?

I agree entirely. The rich young ruler was making the same mistake that Paul describes in Romans.

For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.
(Romans 10:2-3 NASB)

The rich young ruler asked what he had to do to establish his own righteousness. Jesus answered in reply that he would have to keep the commandments.

The man, somewhat presumptiously, said that he had kept the commandments. Jesus then showed him how he had not even kept the first commandment by placing his wealth ahead of God.

 

[With_Questions]

keeping the Commandments is NOT optional… it is required to get into Heaven… St. Mark 10:17 (etc, etc)…

They are NOT the 10 Suggestions…

First post here…

So just how good at keeping the commandments must you be to get into heaven?

 

[sola_scriptura]

not a good thing?

keeping the Commandments is NOT optional… it is required to get into Heaven… St. Mark 10:17 (etc, etc)…

They are NOT the 10 Suggestions…

Nicely stated (I admit I always get a laugh when I hear they’re not the ten suggestions). However, we must also understand grace, atonement, forgiveness, and confession. At the same token that doesn’t mean we may abuse these things.

When we are quickened by the Holy Spirit we will naturally strive unto holiness. This is the work of God in us, both driving us to will and to do. We may slip – but if we’re living in sin then it’s a pretty good bet we’re not walking in the Spirit (except maybe the spirit of perdition). I’m sure you would agree?

 

[adstrinity]

which means??

“Have it your way.”

 

[PerryJ]

I agree with you, I chastise protestant groups for this type of nonsense all the time. However, if I were a Catholic I could sin, go to confession, say ten Hail Mary’s and maybe an Our Father, and I’m good to go right?

A little more effort but still not to cumbersome. The reformed tradition is much more dogmatic than either the RCC or these here today gone tomorrow the world is gonna end in three weeks OSAS types.

So when you use the silliest of protestant sects to paint us with your broad brush you should understand we’re not all the same. Moreover, it would be simple enough to point to the sins within the RCC – but as for me I won’t play that game?

A Catholic that is not truely contrite will not gain by going to confession. It is more than just saying a couple of Hail Mary’s. If one does not take it seriously it will not do them any good.

 

[PerryJ]

Who said anything about not being baptized? Again, Read Your Bible!

So after baptism you are not prone to sin? Is this what you are saying. In response to you. Please read your Bible.

 

[PerryJ]

I would add that I have never heard of an OSAS preach that breaking the Commandments and being a ‘bad Christian’ is a good thing. What they will say is that it will not cost you your eternal Salvation; however, they will add that it will cost a person eternal rewards (‘treasure in Heaven’) and may lead to temporal punishment/chastisement.

So, OSAS believes in temporal punishment; but, not purgatory. Purgatory is about temporal equity and cleansing. Explain to me the difference between OSAS (temporal punishment) and purgatory?

 

[PerryJ]

I think you are misreading the intent of the story. It seems Jesus is showing the Rich Young Ruler that it is impossible to ‘inherit eternal life’ through good works. After all, on the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus had shown how to lust in one’s heart is the same as adultery and to curse one’s brother is the same as murder. Using that view (and verses such as Romans 3:10), it is clear the RYR could not have kept the Commandments since his youth in the perfect (good…only God is good, or perfect) way that God requires. Jesus showed the RYR how to be perfect and thus, through perfection, inherit eternal life.

In fact, Jesus Himself gives us the reason one should obey the Commandments (John 14:15). If one is keeping the Commandments simply to avoid Hell, where is the love in that (except self-love, or self-preservation)?

The Faith does not state that one can gain eternal salvation via good works. Our faith believes that one must have faith and works. God Grace is enough to use a Protestant term; however, one must accept the Grace and let Christ work through you. Several Bible verse clearly show that people work “synergis” with God. We are to work with him. The reverse is unbiblical.

 

[Good_Fella]

Purgatory is not real.

Another declaration of an anti-dogma by anti-pope Sia l!

 

[adstrinity]

So, OSAS believes in temporal punishment; but, not purgatory. Purgatory is about temporal equity and cleansing. Explain to me the difference between OSAS (temporal punishment) and purgatory?

Protestants don’t believe in purgatory; that’s the difference.

 

[PerryJ]

Protestants don’t believe in purgatory; that’s the difference.

You do not answer the question. Protestant tend to believe in Purgatory. Most do not know what the defintion of purgatory is. They have heard false truths about its theology. From the defintion posted they are very much the same. Tell me what you believe Catholic’s think purgatory is? Perhaps I can clarify.

 

[adstrinity]

You do not answer the question. Protestant tend to believe in Purgatory. Most do not know what the defintion of purgatory is. They have heard false truths about its theology. From the defintion posted they are very much the same. Tell me what you believe Catholic’s think purgatory is? Perhaps I can clarify.

I did answer the question. Do you feel I did not address the question?

I believe Catholics think Purgatory is the state that remits all traces and effects of sin from the penetant so that they may be clean and Holy in Heaven.

 

[PerryJ]

I did answer the question. Do you feel I did not address the question?

I believe Catholics think Purgatory is the state that remits all traces and effects of sin from the penetant so that they may be clean and Holy in Heaven.

Catholics do not profess it is an amount of time or a place. As such purgatory could be the instaneous purification of ones soul. Does this confilct with your theology? If so why?

 

[adstrinity]

Catholics do not profess it is an amount of time or a place. As such purgatory could be the instaneous purification of ones soul. Does this confilct with your theology? If so why?

No, it doesn’t conflict with my theology.

If it is not an amount of time, how come when I read my Bible for 15 minutes or say a Rosary, I get time off…if all is in good standing?

 

[PerryJ]

No, it doesn’t conflict with my theology.

If it is not an amount of time, how come when I read my Bible for 15 minutes or say a Rosary, I get time off…if all is in good standing?

One doesn’t get time off. (For an indulgences one can have temporal punishment removed if one has already been forgiven for the Sin by Christ. Sin can only be forgiven by going to Christ.) The concept of time associated with purgatory has been around for many years. Even many priests etc in the past have stated what you believed. It is not in the Cathechims of the Church. With that said the Catholic Church does not state very much about Purgatory as we do not know how it works. If one states that it is time or a place one is not in conflict with the Church; however, the Church does not proclaim that to be the truth. The Church does not know exactly how purification works.

 

[distracted]

That is certainly true.

And no one can keep them perfectly.

Which is the entire point of why Christ kept them for us.

But one must be in Christ… and many who think they are really are not, at least not to the extent God desires… the extent to which is needed for the soul to enter Heaven… No impure thing will enter… I sometimes feel i am “pure enough” only to go and be in Crhist’s presence and then, well, things look different… Jesus came to save us from Hell… that does not mean we will not have to go through Purgatory to get to Heaven…