Protestants, how can this be possible?

[VARC]

So did you do a google search and see if “opinion” is in the Catechism?

BTW, I am not your “buddy”. I am your Sister in Christ and you ought to treat me as such.

Well, perhaps you should act like a sister in Christ instead of mischaracterizing your fellow Christians.

And it doesn’t matter if it says its their opinion or not. There are many churches which have their own opinions on religious teaching. The RCC is simply one of them. You believe their opinions are the truth. Good for you. Perhaps you can accept that others have sincere beliefs that their church’s opinions are true and stop misrepresenting what they believe so that you can feel better about your own church.

 

[PRmerger]

Most of those doctrines are not essentials accoording to protestants. The five fundamental are what most of the 40000+ churches hold to be essential.

The inspiration of the Bible by the Holy Spirit and the inerrancy of Scripture as a result of this.
The virgin birth of Christ.
The belief that Christ’s death was an atonement for sin.
The bodily resurrection of Christ.
The historical reality of Christ’s miracles.

LOL!!

Do you have evidence that even those 25 denominations I listed believe in those essentials, let alone “most of the 40,000 churches” as you claim?

Here’s what I learned from another Protestant in another thread just a few weeks ago about what’s considered “essential” by Protestants.

1. Jesus is both God and man (John 1:1,14; 8:24; Col. 2:9; 1 John 4:1-4).
2. Jesus rose from the dead physically (John 2:19-21; 1 Cor. 15:14).
3. Salvation is by grace through faith (Rom. 5:1; Eph. 2:8-9; Gal. 3:1-2; 5:1-4).
4. The gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus according to the scriptures (1 Cor. 15:1-4; Gal. 1:8-9).
5. There is only one God (Exodus 20:3; Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8)
6. God exists as a Trinity of persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. (1 John 5:7)
7. Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary (nature of incarnation)
8. Jesus is the only way to God the Father (John 14:6)."

But, wait!! Here’s another completely different list of essentials!

Those essentials were written by Matt Slick of CARM, the Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry. The CARM web site states that CARN exists to defend the Christian faith by analyzing religions such as Islam, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormonism, Roman Catholicism, Universalism, Wicca, etc., and comparing them to the Bible. They give (at least) these scriptural references. Certainly these essentials are lacking per Catholic dogma.

Primary Essentials:

Diety of Christ – John 8:24, John 8:58 + Exodus 3:14.
Salvation by Grace – Gal 5:4, Eph 2:8-9
Resurrection of Christ – 1 Cor 15:14, 1 Cor 15:17
Gospel – Gal 1:8-9, 1 Cor 15:1-4
Monotheism – Exodus 20:3, Isaiah 43:10, 44:6,8, Exodus 20:3-6

Secondary Essentials:

Salvation – John 14:6
Trinity – John 3:16, John 5:26, 1 John 4:10, John 14:26, 15:26, Isaiah 44:24, Gal 3:13, Rom 15:16
Incarnation through Virgin Birth – Matt 1:23, John 8:24

 

[JRKH]

Jesus founded the Kingdom of God. Denominations are attempts to promote the Kingdom of God and bring people of the Kingdom of God together.

Well said here. Christ DID found a Kingdom.

So tell me - How many kingdoms can you name which have No Authority, No ministers, No Hierarchy, No visible Structure?

The Church, which Christ Founded and gave the Power to Bind and Loose is just such a structure, designed to bring the people of the Kingdom of God together in ONE Truth, In One Mind.

Those who are speaking with you about “Truth” are rightly concerned that you believe that contradictory beliefs (interpretations) are OK.

I ask you to seriously and prayerfully ponder the following proposition.
Jesus Prayed that the Disciples be “One as He and the Father are One”
St Paul Exhorts the Faithful to:
5 Now may the God of patience and comfort grant you to be like-minded toward one another, according to Christ Jesus, 6 that you may with **one mind **and one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. (Romans 15)

Finally, brethren, farewell. Become complete. Be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace will be with you. (2Cor 13:11)

Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel, (Phl 1:27)

Peter likewise says:
Finally, all of you be of one mind, having compassion for one another; love as brothers, be tenderhearted, be courteous; (1Pe 3:8)

I assume, seeker, that you are of sound mind and do not suffer from a schizophrenia or split personality and so it is probably safe to say that your mind does not hold views contraditory to itself. By that I mean you don’t believe that the Eucharist Is AND Is Not the actual Body of Christ. This is what it means to be “Of One Mind”.

So tell me dear seeker, How can Jesus and the Father, being one, hold contradictory understandings, contradictory truths?
How can the Churches to which Paul and Peter wrote be of “One Mind” and hold contradictory interpretations?

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

Let us do an example. 5 people of the Holy Spirit get together to make a decision. Each is going to buy a car for his or her family.

1. Number one was in a car accident when he was young and lost his mom. In buying a car for his family he picks the one with the safest ratings. He does not care about the other factors so much.
2. He is an environmentalist. He studies lickens in the north. With the Holy Spirit he is guided to the most environmental friendly car.
3. He wants his money to go far for his family. He buys the most inexpensive car with the guidence of the Holy Ghost.
4. He is concerned that he may have to buy something big so he goes for the hatch back model. The Holy Ghost guides him in getting the car for his family.
5. This man does not want his car breaking down so witht he holy Ghost he buys the most reliable.

All 5 men caring for their families in the Holy Ghost buy the best car for them. Their decisions are contradictory but they are all in the Spirit and all correctly lead by the Spirit.

Fine, each of the 5 buys a different car based on their needs. (different practices)
But you will also agree that All Five need to understand the Truth that the car, ANY Car, must have a good reliable engine, (leaving aside electrics for now) and that they must use gasoline to make the car go.
If any of the five determine their car doesn’t NEED an engine, or that Gasoline is just symbolic and water will work just fine, you will agree that they have made a bad interpretation.

Forgive me for the grossly poor example above, (it’s late) but I use it only to illustrate that, while there is indeed room for variation in some things, there are other things that MUST be properly understood in Truth.

Peace
James

 

[Anna_Scott]

To the OP: Pat

I heard about the claim of 30,000 Protestant Denominations. The number is not as large as it sounds, when you consider the statistical methodology used. I found the breakdown on a website recently, but I don’t remember the site to provide a link.

However, no matter how we look at this (even if the number is smaller,) there are still an overwhelming number of divisions in the Protestant Sector.

For those who are deeply committed to their particular Protestant denomination or “sect,” the numbers really don’t matter. Their whole world revolves around their church, and they are convinced they are right. Most will not even study anything outside their denomination. They live out their religion with tunnel vision.

Sadly, there is a hatred of the Catholic Church, that can be traced back to the pulpits of some Protestant Churches. I have witnessed this myself, and it breaks my heart.

For Protestants like me, who are reading and questioning; the numerous divisions are critical and deeply disturbing. There is definitely something wrong, since we can’t all be right.

As expressed on another Thread, after four years of studying the Bible and the history of Judaism and Christianity; I feel like a Christian “all dressed up with no place to go”—to worship and fellowship with other Christians.

I have abandoned the Baptist Church (I grew up in Southern Baptist Churches,) because I think many of the Doctrines are not supported by Scripture.

I no longer accept Sola Scriptura; I do not believe in salvation by faith alone–as faith without works is dead; I do not believe “once saved, always saved.”

At the same time, there are some Catholic Doctrines that I’m not sure I can accept. Though there are many days, when the Catholic Church is very appealing—if only to escape the bickering.

As I participate on these Threads: I often find that I am disagreeing with fellow Protestants more often than I am disagreeing with Catholics. Protestant Forum Members have even accused me of sounding more like a Catholic than a Protestant—in the Protestant Sector, that is not a compliment.

So, I am somewhere between Catholicism and Protestantism, and it is a very lonely place to reside.

On these Forums, I have met Protestants who converted to Catholicism; and Catholics who have converted to a Protestant Religion—confusing—since, in both cases, the converts demonstrate a confident faith that God lead them to the right place within Christendom.

I keep praying that God will lead me to His Truth and His Church.

Anna

 

[mmmcounts]

Statistics show the number of Protestant secs at well in excess of 30,000!

I am befuddled, confused, bewildered how this can be a fact [a rapidly growing fact] and yet it does not seem to register with non-Catholics that something is obviously wrong.

I am very sincere in not being able to comprehend the lack of concern that seems to indicate that this is fine, it’s somehow God’s Will. There can only be ONE truth on any particular issue. So how can this be:shrug:

I do not mean this as a disparagement of any type. I simply am confounded that this does not raise a “red flag” and questions? Can you enlighten me?

I have been faithfully answeing your questions for more more than a year. Help me out here

Love and prayers,
Pat

The Protestant understanding of “Christ’s Church” is not and has never been one of a monolithic ruling body that unites Christians as if they were Roman citizens under a Caesar and a Senate. I suggest that you take careful note of these next few words:

Christ’s Church, according to the Protestant understanding of it, is one of a semi-autonomous collective made up of individuals and groups of people that are different from each other in a variety of ways but united in allegiance to Christ alone.

Pay close attention now. Semi-autonomous means this:
Partially self-governing; having the powers of self-government within a larger organization or structure.

Those 30k or 40k groups? Those aren’t entirely separate (did someone say schism?) “larger organizations or structures.” You don’t see Lutherans excommunicating Baptists of declaring the Presbyterians anathema. Get your mental image straight right now: You’re looking at semi-autonomous groups in excess of 30k. You are not looking at 30k schisms.

I sincerely hope you can understand this. Last time I gave this explanation, the response I got was a quote of what I said followed by the astute response of “Nonsense!” and an annoying smiley of some sort. Don’t be that guy.

And now, if you don’t mind, one quick question for you.

It concerns the idea of an infallible interpretation of the Bible. Last I checked, “interpretation” basically means reading something and rightly understanding what it means. Apparently, you (a mere layperson) are unable to infallibly interpret something all by yourself. So the CC gives you the CCC and presto, you have an infallible interpretation.

Just one problem: You have to read the CCC. You have to rightly understand what it says. In a word, you must “interpret” it. How do you get around your problem of being unable to interpret anything infallibly- even the Bible, which is itself infallible- and make this exception for the CCC? In order for you to possess in infallible interpretation, you need to be able to interpret something infallibly. It’s either that or some sort of impossibility like an infinite regression of infallible interpretations. Seems to me that you’re kind of stuck. You’re standing there holding the sign saying

[SIGN]I can’t interpret anything infallibly![/SIGN]

and yet there you are reading a copy of the CCC as if it were the lone exception.

What’s up with that?

 

[PRmerger]

The Protestant understanding of “Christ’s Church” is not and has never been one of a monolithic ruling body that unites Christians as if they were Roman citizens under a Caesar and a Senate. I suggest that you take careful note of these next few words:

What you are describing is not the CC. We give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, but we give to God what is God’s.

It concerns the idea of an infallible interpretation of the Bible. Last I checked, “interpretation” basically means reading something and rightly understanding what it means. Apparently, you (a mere layperson) are unable to infallibly interpret something all by yourself.

You think that you are able to infallibly interpret Scripture, mmm?

Did you know that the CC does not teach that Catholics cannot read Scripture and come to a personal interpretation?

So the CC gives you the CCC and presto, you have an infallible interpretation.

I think you have a poor understanding of the CCC and infallibility. The CCC is not an infallible document. And the CC has only “infallibly” interpreted a few Scripture verses.

 

[anna_marie_shly]

I am new to this website and all I keep reading is arguments for one particular Church or the other.God said we should love each other as we would want to be loved .Does it matter if you are a Catholic,Protestant,Buddist or Athetist.I think as long as you treat your felow man as you would be treated then you are a good person.Follow the ten commandments and ask God to guide you.

 

[Happy_B]

And the means of this unity was established by God: the Catholic Church. I’m not sure what the point of dialogue is if this is overlooked.

Greek Orthodox christians say that the Greek orthodox church is the only true church, the one established by Jesus! They think we split from church, the true church and that we caused the church be not united and that we are heretic!

 

[wmscott]

Let us do an example. 5 people of the Holy Spirit get together to make a decision. Each is going to buy a car for his or her family.

1. Number one was in a car accident when he was young and lost his mom. In buying a car for his family he picks the one with the safest ratings. He does not care about the other factors so much.
2. He is an environmentalist. He studies lickens in the north. With the Holy Spirit he is guided to the most environmental friendly car.
3. He wants his money to go far for his family. He buys the most inexpensive car with the guidence of the Holy Ghost.
4. He is concerned that he may have to buy something big so he goes for the hatch back model. The Holy Ghost guides him in getting the car for his family.
5. This man does not want his car breaking down so witht he holy Ghost he buys the most reliable.

All 5 men caring for their families in the Holy Ghost buy the best car for them. Their decisions are contradictory but they are all in the Spirit and all correctly lead by the Spirit.

And to think that I had thought you had a little intellectual honesty.:banghead: My bad, after reading the rest of the posts after this there is nothing more that I can add except to say that there is only ONE repository of the fullness of truth, the CC as established by Christ Himself. Either you can choose to believe in Christ’s commandments or you can reject them for whatever flavor of kumbaya, happy clappy, cant we all just get along philosophy that is popular now. I will stick to what Christ established at day one over 2000 years ago and what He laid out for the CC until His return.

 

[Seeker100]

Well said here. Christ DID found a Kingdom.

So tell me - How many kingdoms can you name which have No Authority, No ministers, No Hierarchy, No visible Structure?

The Church, which Christ Founded and gave the Power to Bind and Loose is just such a structure, designed to bring the people of the Kingdom of God together in ONE Truth, In One Mind.

Those who are speaking with you about “Truth” are rightly concerned that you believe that contradictory beliefs (interpretations) are OK.

I ask you to seriously and prayerfully ponder the following proposition.
Jesus Prayed that the Disciples be “One as He and the Father are One”
St Paul Exhorts the Faithful to:
5 Now may the God of patience and comfort grant you to be like-minded toward one another, according to Christ Jesus, 6 that you may with **one mind **and one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. (Romans 15)

Finally, brethren, farewell. Become complete. Be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace will be with you. (2Cor 13:11)

Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel, (Phl 1:27)

Peter likewise says:
Finally, all of you be of one mind, having compassion for one another; love as brothers, be tenderhearted, be courteous; (1Pe 3:8)

I assume, seeker, that you are of sound mind and do not suffer from a schizophrenia or split personality and so it is probably safe to say that your mind does not hold views contraditory to itself. By that I mean you don’t believe that the Eucharist Is AND Is Not the actual Body of Christ. This is what it means to be “Of One Mind”.

So tell me dear seeker, How can Jesus and the Father, being one, hold contradictory understandings, contradictory truths?
How can the Churches to which Paul and Peter wrote be of “One Mind” and hold contradictory interpretations?

Peace
James

You are in error. The Roman Catholic church is not the Kingdom of God. The Kingdom of God is not of this world, the Roman Catholic church is of this world (Understand I don’t mean that in a bad way). The Kingdom of God is in the hearts of any person who loves God nomatter what building he goes to on Sunday, (Saturday or whatever).

People of all denominations belong to the Kingdom of God and Jesus is the head. People of the Kingdom of God have Jesus work through them. They see Jesus in everyone they meet. The Kingdom of God is very organized and unified as God is its leader. The gates of hell can never defeat it.

The one and only true church is NOT the Roman Catholic church. The one and only true church is a spiritual church of people who really serve God. The true church is made of people from every sect you can imagine. The true church is made of the ones that love Jesus.

Some Roman Catholics are in the true church which is the Kingdom of God and some Protestants are too.

Many Roman Catholics are certainly in the Kingdom of God but the Roman Catholic church is definitely NOT the Kingdom of God.

Jesus set up a spiritual church not a worldly one. People have set the worldly church up.

In all ages there are those that serve God (love) and those that serve Baal. God knows whom His people are.

 

[luke1_28]

You are saying that the people who do wrong are following God’s voice. This is not true.

As to life, He who does the will of God lives. He who is of God loves. He who is not of God does not love. As Jesus says, “My sheep hear my voice”.

Don’t put words in my mouth. If you were sincere and cared to read into what I wrote, I say the people who do wrong are NOT following God’s voice. You are implying that anyone who does listen to God’s voice does right. My point is that there is a Church - of which there is leadership put in place trained to discern the voice of God for the believer because (and you dodged this point) the enemy can twist and distort the voice of God to make a pro-life activist really believe he is doing good by killing an abortionist or blowing up a clinic. He thinks God is telling him that it’s ok to take a life that will destroy thousands others. Therefore, he justifies the killing. All from a ‘voice of God’…

The voice of God is telling me this all the time. “I am your Father in Heaven. Heaven is your true home. I created you with the love of an Artist for his art. You were on my mind from the beginning of time and put you in history at the perfect point in time that you would fit in it. It’s going to be hard but I will not leave you, my children, in this crazy world under the power of the enemy all alone without the Way, the Truth, and the Life to get you to Heaven. I want you to be united with one another as brother and sister in this world because there is strength in numbers. You will gain strength from each other from being of one mind as St. Paul instructed. You will show the unbelievers by your unity and common worship that I have sent My Son among you. Just as in the Old Testament I led the believers by the Law and the Prophets, I sent My Son in the New Testament to establish a Church, to live and die for this Church - His Bride. This Church will be the surest way to get you to Heaven and will teach you the Way, the Truth, and the Life until My Son comes in glory to marry His Bride.”

It would seem the voice of God is telling YOU this: “I am your Father in Heaven. Heaven is your true home. I am going to leave you to yourself to figure this all out because I like to see division in people’s beliefs. I simply created you to fend for yourself. But I love you anyway - even though my voice is telling you one thing and I tell that other guy another thing. It’s an experiment…but…I love you anyway.”

And my prayer back to God: “God forgive me if I offended You, but I know You love me more than what protestants speak of You. They thought they were motivated from a loss of faith in a church of men, but instead they lost faith in the Church of God - established by your Son. Your Truth is eternal and changes not. Your actions recorded in the Scriptures beginning in the Old Testament give evidence to the visible Church established in the New Testament. Give them the eyes of faith to see You more as a caring Father that would not leave His children alone. The Church is a gift of you to His children, to unite them in common Worship of you, for you are One God who created us all. We wish to worship you of one mind, as You and Your Son are one. Thank you for Your Church. May we who acknowledge this Church never take it for granted as we have in the past and become ardent defenders of Your Faith that you have been so gracious to allow man to know through Your Son, Jesus Christ. Thank you for the consecrated loyal men who have become priests and bishops that You have given to Your Church so that we might know Your will because You are the God of Order and the God of Justice. We praise you as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - One God for all ages through your Holy Church. Amen.”

Seeker100 - What if we are right? What if you are wrong? There is more evidence in the last 6000 years to support the correctness of Catholic belief and thought then ANY evidence ever written in these last 500 years to support the protestant deformation. Don’t let pride in your belief system you have either developed all on your own or adopted/adapted from somewhere else build a wall between you and the Father’s love that He really has for you. This wall you build will block entrance to the True Church He established through His Son for our salvation. He would not tell you one thing and someone else another. God is a God of order. What you propose, is what the world does and the world is a mess. God would not tell one lawmaker it’s ok to propose laws protecting the rights of women (which is the voice they hear and seems to be coming from God) and then another lawmaker it’s NOT ok to kill babies (which we around here now this must be from God). God gave us a Church to discern the Truth. If you are sincere and wish to learn about it, check out the Faith tab and read from the library. Go to the Shop tab and pick up some books. If anything, you need to learn about what loyal Catholics believe in, because I can promise you, you won’t convert anyone loyal to Rome with your proposals that under the test of time and history, have proven to be a house of sand. Some of it’s true what you say…but the house of sand (personal interpretation of the Scriptures - belief in self as Pope) you build will forever crumble. However if you look to Rome, there sits a 2000 year old institution as living proof of God’s love for His children - proof that God does not build His House on sand.

Do me a favor too. When you respond next time, show me you read what I wrote. You evidently didn’t the last time around because of your response.

God bless you,
luke1_28

 

[Seeker100]

Don’t put words in my mouth. If you were sincere and cared to read into what I wrote, I say the people who do wrong are NOT following God’s voice. You are implying that anyone who does listen to God’s voice does right. My point is that there is a Church - of which there is leadership put in place trained to discern the voice of God for the believer because (and you dodged this point) the enemy can twist and distort the voice of God to make a pro-life activist really believe he is doing good by killing an abortionist or blowing up a clinic. He thinks God is telling him that it’s ok to take a life that will destroy thousands others. Therefore, he justifies the killing. All from a ‘voice of God’…

The voice of God is telling me this all the time. “I am your Father in Heaven. Heaven is your true home. I created you with the love of an Artist for his art. You were on my mind from the beginning of time and put you in history at the perfect point in time that you would fit in it. It’s going to be hard but I will not leave you, my children, in this crazy world under the power of the enemy all alone without the Way, the Truth, and the Life to get you to Heaven. I want you to be united with one another as brother and sister in this world because there is strength in numbers. You will gain strength from each other from being of one mind as St. Paul instructed. You will show the unbelievers by your unity and common worship that I have sent My Son among you. Just as in the Old Testament I led the believers by the Law and the Prophets, I sent My Son in the New Testament to establish a Church, to live and die for this Church - His Bride. This Church will be the surest way to get you to Heaven and will teach you the Way, the Truth, and the Life until My Son comes in glory to marry His Bride.”

It would seem the voice of God is telling YOU this: “I am your Father in Heaven. Heaven is your true home. I am going to leave you to yourself to figure this all out because I like to see division in people’s beliefs. I simply created you to fend for yourself. But I love you anyway - even though my voice is telling you one thing and I tell that other guy another thing. It’s an experiment…but…I love you anyway.”

And my prayer back to God: “God forgive me if I offended You, but I know You love me more than what protestants speak of You. They thought they were motivated from a loss of faith in a church of men, but instead they lost faith in the Church of God - established by your Son. Your Truth is eternal and changes not. Your actions recorded in the Scriptures beginning in the Old Testament give evidence to the visible Church established in the New Testament. Give them the eyes of faith to see You more as a caring Father that would not leave His children alone. The Church is a gift of you to His children, to unite them in common Worship of you, for you are One God who created us all. We wish to worship you of one mind, as You and Your Son are one. Thank you for Your Church. May we who acknowledge this Church never take it for granted as we have in the past and become ardent defenders of Your Faith that you have been so gracious to allow man to know through Your Son, Jesus Christ. Thank you for the consecrated loyal men who have become priests and bishops that You have given to Your Church so that we might know Your will because You are the God of Order and the God of Justice. We praise you as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - One God for all ages through your Holy Church. Amen.”

Seeker100 - What if we are right? What if you are wrong? There is more evidence in the last 6000 years to support the correctness of Catholic belief and thought then ANY evidence ever written in these last 500 years to support the protestant deformation. Don’t let pride in your belief system you have either developed all on your own or adopted/adapted from somewhere else build a wall between you and the Father’s love that He really has for you. This wall you build will block entrance to the True Church He established through His Son for our salvation. He would not tell you one thing and someone else another. God is a God of order. What you propose, is what the world does and the world is a mess. God would not tell one lawmaker it’s ok to propose laws protecting the rights of women (which is the voice they hear and seems to be coming from God) and then another lawmaker it’s NOT ok to kill babies (which we around here now this must be from God). God gave us a Church to discern the Truth. If you are sincere and wish to learn about it, check out the Faith tab and read from the library. Go to the Shop tab and pick up some books. If anything, you need to learn about what loyal Catholics believe in, because I can promise you, you won’t convert anyone loyal to Rome with your proposals that under the test of time and history, have proven to be a house of sand. Some of it’s true what you say…but the house of sand (personal interpretation of the Scriptures - belief in self as Pope) you build will forever crumble. However if you look to Rome, there sits a 2000 year old institution as living proof of God’s love for His children - proof that God does not build His House on sand.

Do me a favor too. When you respond next time, show me you read what I wrote. You evidently didn’t the last time around because of your response.

God bless you,
luke1_28

I learn from God directly. Jesus directly teaches me what is true and real.

 

[JRKH]

Pat:

I heard about the claim of 30,000 Protestant Denominations. The number is not as large as it sounds, when you consider the statistical methodology used. I found the breakdown on a website recently, but I don’t remember the site to provide a link.

However, no matter how we look at this (even if the number is smaller,) there are still an overwhelming number of divisions in the Protestant Sector.

I too saw the page with the methodology explained. It made it obvious that the number sould be “inflated” I think that, from a theological standpoint the number is radically smaller.
I did a small thread on here awhile back where we came up with 17 fundamental theological principles. Assuming that there are churches who agree and disagree with every combination of these 17 the number would be a few hundred instead of the 30,000 given in the study. Of course even “a few hundred” is severly wounding to Christ. I sometimes wonder, just what percentage of the weight of Chris’t Cross is the result of our sinful divisions of His body.

For those who are deeply committed to their particular Protestant denomination or “sect,” the numbers really don’t matter. Their whole world revolves around their church, and they are convinced they are right. Most will not even study anything outside their denomination. They live out their religion with tunnel vision.

Sadly, there is a hatred of the Catholic Church, that can be traced back to the pulpits of some Protestant Churches. I have witnessed this myself, and it breaks my heart.

For Protestants like me, who are reading and questioning; the numerous divisions are critical and deeply disturbing. There is definitely something wrong, since we can’t all be right.

As expressed on another Thread, after four years of studying the Bible and the history of Judaism and Christianity; I feel like a Christian “all dressed up with no place to go”—to worship and fellowship with other Christians.

I have abandoned the Baptist Church (I grew up in Southern Baptist Churches,) because I think many of the Doctrines are not supported by Scripture.

I no longer accept Sola Scriptura; I do not believe in salvation by faith alone–as faith without works is dead; I do not believe “once saved, always saved.”

At the same time, there are some Catholic Doctrines that I’m not sure I can accept. Though there are many days, when the Catholic Church is very appealing—if only to escape the bickering.

As I participate on these Threads: I often find that I am disagreeing with fellow Protestants more often than I am disagreeing with Catholics. Protestant Forum Members have even accused me of sounding more like a Catholic than a Protestant—in the Protestant Sector, that is not a compliment.

So, I am somewhere between Catholicism and Protestantism, and it is a very lonely place to reside.

On these Forums, I have met Protestants who converted to Catholicism; and Catholics who have converted to a Protestant Religion—confusing—since, in both cases, the converts demonstrate a confident faith that God lead them to the right place within Christendom.

I keep praying that God will lead me to His Truth and His Church.

Anna

Keep praying Anna,
Go to a parish nearby and spend time in front of the tabernacle. The tabernacle containing the Very Real Presense of Christ Himself. Lay your concerns before Him and pray for his guidance.

Peace
James

 

[luke1_28]

You are in error. The Roman Catholic church is not the Kingdom of God. The Kingdom of God is not of this world, the Roman Catholic church is of this world (Understand I don’t mean that in a bad way). The Kingdom of God is in the hearts of any person who loves God nomatter what building he goes to on Sunday, (Saturday or whatever).

People of all denominations belong to the Kingdom of God and Jesus is the head. People of the Kingdom of God have Jesus work through them. They see Jesus in everyone they meet. The Kingdom of God is very organized and unified as God is its leader. The gates of hell can never defeat it.

The one and only true church is NOT the Roman Catholic church. The one and only true church is a spiritual church of people who really serve God. The true church is made of people from every sect you can imagine. The true church is made of the ones that love Jesus.

Some Roman Catholics are in the true church which is the Kingdom of God and some Protestants are too.

Many Roman Catholics are certainly in the Kingdom of God but the Roman Catholic church is definitely NOT the Kingdom of God.

Jesus set up a spiritual church not a worldly one. People have set the worldly church up.

In all ages there are those that serve God (love) and those that serve Baal. God knows whom His people are.

I will only reply with this link:

catholic.com/library/pillar.asp

God knows who His people are alright. Even more so, He knows who His Chosen are now…because they are marked by the Blood of the Lamb and have the Heart of Jesus beating within them. There is only one place in this world that offers you the real food of His Body and the real drink of His Blood. He was so in love with us that He became one of us in flesh in blood. We need to be so in love with Him that we want to become one with Him through His flesh and blood. We Catholics receive Him fully as He intended in John 6 and the Last Supper discourse. As an Old Testament prophet foresaw - “From the rising of the sun to the setting, thereof - there will be a spotless sacrifice.” When Christ said, “Do this in remembrance of Me” it was a directive - not an option.

This is the #1 purpose of the Church - to bring Christ to the world through the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist. Liturgy means work. Therefore the Liturgy of the Catholic Church is the work of God in the world. The believers who partake of the Eucharist worthily, are in communion with another as true brothers and sisters of one another and of Christ because through our common Faith we become of one mind. That is the Bride of Christ. Spotless - awaiting the Bridegroom who will come in His glory. We are truly flesh of His flesh and blood of His blood.

He chose to reveal Himself this way. This Way is His Will recorded in Scripture and lived in Tradition. And a 2000 year old voice of God the Son repeats it through the 2000 year old Church He created.

God bless you,
luke1_28

 

[JRKH]

**You are in error. ** The Roman Catholic church is not the Kingdom of God. The Kingdom of God is not of this world, the Roman Catholic church is of this world (Understand I don’t mean that in a bad way). The Kingdom of God is in the hearts of any person who loves God nomatter what building he goes to on Sunday, (Saturday or whatever).

People of all denominations belong to the Kingdom of God and Jesus is the head. People of the Kingdom of God have Jesus work through them. They see Jesus in everyone they meet. The Kingdom of God is very organized and unified as God is its leader. The gates of hell can never defeat it.

The one and only true church is NOT the Roman Catholic church. The one and only true church is a spiritual church of people who really serve God. The true church is made of people from every sect you can imagine. The true church is made of the ones that love Jesus.

Some Roman Catholics are in the true church which is the Kingdom of God and some Protestants are too.

Many Roman Catholics are certainly in the Kingdom of God but the Roman Catholic church is definitely NOT the Kingdom of God.

Jesus set up a spiritual church not a worldly one. People have set the worldly church up.

In all ages there are those that serve God (love) and those that serve Baal. God knows whom His people are.

I highlighted your very first comment becuase I find it an incredible bit of audacity that the person who posted the followng in post number 131 would declare me to be in error:

*(By Seeker in Post 131)
It is possible for all to be correct. God is true. God does not lie. If each follows the truth then they are all correct. Things can be totally contradictory and that is good and fine. The interpretation of the Eucharist is an excellent example. God guides us each as to how it is to be understood. Contradictions are okay as the ultimate purpose is love. *

How can a person who posted the above presume to tell another person, a fellow Christian, they are in error??
Personally I think you just shot yourself in the proverbial foot.

Peace
James

 

[Seeker100]

I highlighted your very first comment becuase I find it an incredible bit of audacity that the person who posted the followng in post number 131 would declare me to be in error:

(By Seeker in Post 131)
It is possible for all to be correct. God is true. God does not lie. If each follows the truth then they are all correct. Things can be totally contradictory and that is good and fine. The interpretation of the Eucharist is an excellent example. God guides us each as to how it is to be understood. Contradictions are okay as the ultimate purpose is love.

How can a person who posted the above presume to tell another person, a fellow Christian, they are in error??
Personally I think you just shot yourself in the proverbial foot.

Peace
James

As I said “IF”

 

[JRKH]

As I said “IF”

And who determines which “If’s” are the correct “If’s”.

Also I noticed taht you chose to respond the first part of my thread but you ignored the second part, the one about Being of One Mind.

Peace
James

 

[Seeker100]

And who determines which "If’s are the correct “If’s”.

Peace
James

Love God with all your heart. Love every person on this earth as you love yourself. Then you will know

 

[Seeker100]

And who determines which “If’s” are the correct “If’s”.

Also I noticed taht you chose to respond the first part of my thread but you ignored the second part, the one about Being of One Mind.

Peace
James

I did not ignor the second part. The people of God are of One Mind. The people of God are of the Mind of Christ. The people of God are His body.