Protestants, How could an Infallible book be of use to you, w/o an Infallible Interpreter?

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Prodigal_Son1 said:
Why would an agnostic want to impress his views on believers? Think about it. We express our view in hopes of everyone achieving eternal life. If you truly question the existence of God, what benefit does your belief offer anyone? How do you benefit from convincing others that you are right?

These are sincere questions.
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He is not always going to be an agnostic Prodigal. At least I don’t think so. God is good. God is good all the time.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Why would an agnostic want to impress his views on believers? Think about it. We express our view in hopes of everyone achieving eternal life. If you truly question the existence of God, what benefit does your belief offer anyone? How do you benefit from convincing others that you are right?

These are sincere questions.
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I asked why it mattered. This does not mean that I want you to throw out your beliefs.

So I will ask again, so I understand:
  1. Did Jesus ever state that baptism was a requirement for entrance to heaven?
  2. Do you believe that God only lets the baptized into heaven?
 
Rightlydivide said:
He is not always going to be an agnostic Prodigal. At least I don’t think so. God is good. God is good all the time.
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I hope and pray you’re right and that he will not always be agnostic. But considering his current thinking, I was just curious as to why an agnostic, or an atheist for that matter, feels compelled to challenge believers? As I explained, Christians do it in hopes of bringing others into the faith with promises of everlasting life. I just fail to see the benefits for anyone who listens to their view, or how they benefit themselves. What’s the motivation? 🤷
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
I hope and pray you’re right and that he will not always be agnostic. But considering his current thinking, I was just curious as to why an agnostic, or an atheist for that matter, feels compelled to challenge believers? As I explained, Christians do it in hopes of bringing others into the faith with promises of everlasting life. I just fail to see the benefits for anyone who listens to their view, or how they benefit themselves. 🤷
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In less than ten years, I have watched over 180people make that decision. I have personally baptized over a hundred of the converts…its kind of what we do when we share the gospel and they accept. I have seen ardent atheists change their mind. I suggest you might not know that a person who has an interest in such things is not very far away. Careful though Prodigal, you might win the battle and lose the war with this one. Just think about it.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
I hope and pray you’re right and that he will not always be agnostic. But considering his current thinking, I was just curious as to why an agnostic, or an atheist for that matter, feels compelled to challenge believers? As I explained, Christians do it in hopes of bringing others into the faith with promises of everlasting life. I just fail to see the benefits for anyone who listens to their view, or how they benefit themselves. What’s the motivation? 🤷
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Hey, I am in the room, you know.

I read and write about religion and faith frequently. I am very intellectually curious about it and am fascinated by the notions that keep believers apart from better brother and sisterhood.
 
Rightlydivide said:
In less than ten years, I have watched over 180people make that decision. I have personally baptized over a hundred of the converts…its kind of what we do when we share the gospel and they accept. I have seen ardent atheists change their mind. I suggest you might not know that a person who has an interest in such things is not very far away. Careful though Prodigal, you might win the battle and lose the war with this one. Just think about it.
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I also read The Tao, and I read Zen koans every day as part of meditation and daily writing. I could see one day being a very loose Christian, maybe like a UU or something. But a RC or “regular” Protestant? No, not likely ever again.
 
tweetymom said:
How do you you know, since you have the Church you must know. As I have said at least a dozen times I will use your scripture,cause they do not mean just for the CC or for Paul. They are for all believers.
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Tweetymom, Sacred Scripture is for everyone, but, who or what has the authority to resolve doctrinal disputes when it comes to Sacred Scripture, and let’s assume it’s not the CC leadership? The bible does not, for the bible cannot arbitrate, evaluate or resolve anything, without an interpreter/arbiter.
 
Hey lark…
larkin31;6299927]I asked why it mattered. This does not mean that I want you to throw out your beliefs.
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So I will ask again, so I understand:
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  1. Did Jesus ever state that baptism was a requirement for entrance to heaven?
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“I tell you the truth, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

John 3:3: “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
  1. Do you believe that God only lets the baptized into heaven?
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Well, the thief on the cross was not baptized. If someone does not have access to this knowledge, then I would have to say no. Why would God deny entry into His heavenly home if someone never heard of Him or His teachings? :confused:
 
larkin31 said:
Hey, I am in the room, you know.

I read and write about religion and faith frequently. I am very intellectually curious about it and am fascinated by the notions that keep believers apart from better brother and sisterhood.
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As you write about religion and faith, and are very intellectually curious, surely you can understand the point of questions also from an intellectually curious perspective. So please take time to explain. Why would someone researching take an active participation in the discussions, with what seems to be a bias view and not so much an open mind? What’s the motivation of challenging believers, which seems to be heavily biased against Catholicism, and even furthering a divide between what you refer too as ‘better brother and sisterhood?’ Are we just an intellectual experiment for you to write about? Does your facination cause you to specifically challenge one side’s beliefs to see the effects between people in discussions in hopes of finding common ground and understanding?

You identify yourself as an agnostic, but through your active participation, you present your view. How does that benefit you to get believers to also doubt? What benefits does one have in joining you in questioning God’s existence?
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
As you write about religion and faith, and are very intellectually curious, surely you can understand the point of questions also from an intellectually curious perspective. So please take time to explain. Why would someone researching take an active participation in the discussions, with what seems to be a bias view and not so much an open mind? What’s the motivation of challenging believers, which seems to be heavily biased against Catholicism, and even furthering a divide between what you refer too as ‘better brother and sisterhood?’ Are we just an intellectual experiment for you to write about? Does your facination cause you to specifically challenge one side’s beliefs to see the effects between people in discussions in hopes of finding common ground and understanding?

You identify yourself as an agnostic, but through your active participation, you present your view. How does that benefit you to get believers to also doubt? What benefits does one have in joining you in questioning God’s existence?
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This thread is not about questioning God’s existence, nor have I been doing so here.

Your focus on my motivations (which you suggest here are destructive, menacing) is curious to me also. I don’t wonder why you are here. But maybe I will start wondering why you keep wondering about me…hmmmmm…why don’t you pm me about my motivations, rather than take up thread space with your speculation?
 
Matthew_P_Muehl said:
Back to my request… Please show me in the bible where infants and children were not baptized !!! You say no. Please back up your answer. I know you won’t because you can’t!
There is far to much in the bible that supports infant baptism.
The burden is on you to prove otherwise.

Matthew
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How can I prove a negative? I could parade out all the verses that speak of adults being baptized. There’s NOT one verse that says an infant got baptized.​

So, in reality, it is you that needs to show where infants were baptized.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

In light of the scripture above, I think it’s of the utmost importance.
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So no person can enter the kingdom of Heaven without being baptized? That poor thief on the cross; what happened to him? He couldn’t be baptized?
 
Dokimas said:
So no person can enter the kingdom of Heaven without being baptized? That poor thief on the cross; what happened to him? He couldn’t be baptized?
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The Church teaches Baptizm of disire and the Baptism of blood, (dying for the Faith) If you like you can read up on that in the Catechism for an understanding.:)Peace Carlan
 
Dokimas said:

How can I prove a negative? I could parade out all the verses that speak of adults being baptized. There’s NOT one verse that says an infant got baptized.​

So, in reality, it is you that needs to show where infants were baptized.
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Perhaps ACTS 2:38-39 to start with and the letter of Cyprian and of his colleagues in council to the number of sixty-six: To Fidus. A.D. 251/252. This is filled with writings on how infants were to be baptized. There are many other early church fathers that deal with this if you would care to read them.

Matthew
 
Matthew_P_Muehl said:
Perhaps ACTS 2:38-39 to start with and the letter of Cyprian and of his colleagues in council to the number of sixty-six: To Fidus. A.D. 251/252. This is filled with writings on how infants were to be baptized. There are many other early church fathers that deal with this if you would care to read them.

Matthew
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Acts 2:
38 Then Peter said to them, "**Repent, and let every one of you **be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 “For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”
40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.”​

  1. Can an infant repent?
  2. Does an infant have sins to remit?
  3. Does an infant receive the Holy Spirit?
The promise is the gift of the Holy Spirit, not baptism. Look closely.
 
Yet another thread derailed.

Always reminds me of the apostles and disciples that wanted to keep the children away from Christ when they tried to approach, and yet Christ said to let them come to him instead.
 
Dokimas said:

Acts 2:
38 Then Peter said to them, "**Repent, and let every one of you **be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 “For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”
40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.”​

  1. Can an infant repent?
  2. Does an infant have sins to remit?
  3. Does an infant receive the Holy Spirit?
The promise is the gift of the Holy Spirit, not baptism. Look closely.
Click to expand...
You need to argue with the early church fathers not me! It’s all right there in black and white if you would read it! I guess the history of the early church means nothing to you.

Matthew
 
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