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rinnie
Guest
Who in the world said not to trust in God. But why not also trust in the Mother of God. God himself did?
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dougfreed
Guest
Oh, Where?
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
Christ is the only mediator between man and God. Catholics ask Mary, who is eternally alive in heaven to pray for us. All Christians ask people on earth to pray for them. What is the difference? Why not just trust in God as opposed to asking other Christians to pray for you?
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
Luk 1:26 And in the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God into a city of Galilee, called Nazareth,
Luk 1:27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David: and the virgin’s name was Mary.
Luk 1:28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Luk 1:29 Who having heard, was troubled at his saying and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be.
Luk 1:30 And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.
Luk 1:31 Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb and shalt bring forth a son: and thou shalt call his name Jesus.
Luk 1:32 He shall be great and shall be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father: and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever.
Luk 1:33 And of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Luk 1:34 And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done, because I know not man?
Luk 1:35 And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Luk 1:36 And behold thy cousin Elizabeth, she also hath conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her that is called barren.
Luk 1:37 Because no word shall be impossible with God.
Luk 1:38 And Mary said: Behold the handmaid of the Lord: be it done to me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
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Hercules253
Guest
You didn’t get it did you? The whole point of that was indicating the careful use of the term “Mother of God”…which is not to be associated with divinity…some people are guilty of that because that title can be easily misused.So, you’re agreeing with the satanist we were trying to explain how Mary was the mother of God to?
Mary was the woman God chose to give birth to his Son, and be a mother too, which He overshadowed her with the Holy Spirit so that she could conceive. Now, with this explanation, which is Biblical, we see that Mary was mother of God, the Son and not the “Trinity”. You’re trying to turn the argument into semantics, in my opinion.
BTW, you seemed to have overlooked responding to several posts to your attention…
Yes she was the Mother of God, the Son in a physical sense but not in a divine sense.
No one is responsible for God’s divinity but Himself…
It really simple and you’re over looking into it too much…Does that make any sense?
Good:thumbsup:
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
So, calling Christ our king could cause confusion with men, so we shouldn’t…see where be careful about saying what you believe can lead too?
As you say, “Yes she was the Mother of God, the Son in a physical sense”. She was chose by God to serve as the mother of His Son. Is that overlooking it?
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Hercules253
Guest
Ummmm…are you sure about that?
It’s very clear that the stars symbolizes the 12 tribes just like it did in Joseph’s dreams in Genesis 37:9-11
In Isaiah 66: 7-10, Isaiah depicts Jerusalem, Israel as a woman going into labor and delivering a “son”
*7 “Before she goes into labor,
she gives birth;
before the pains come upon her,
she delivers a son.
8 Who has ever heard of such a thing?
Who has ever seen such things?
Can a country be born in a day
or a nation be brought forth in a moment?
Yet no sooner is Zion in labor
than she gives birth to her children.
9 Do I bring to the moment of birth
and not give delivery?” says the LORD.
“Do I close up the womb
when I bring to delivery?” says your God.
10 "Rejoice with Jerusalem and be glad for her,
all you who love her;
rejoice greatly with her,
all you who mourn over her. *
We also see this in Micah 4: 9-10, Micah depicts Israel as the daughter of Zion (God’s Kingdom) going through labor pains.
*Why do you now cry aloud—
have you no king?
Has your counselor perished,
that pain seizes you like that of a woman in labor?
10 Writhe in agony, O Daughter of Zion,
like a woman in labor,
for now you must leave the city
to camp in the open field.
You will go to Babylon;
there you will be rescued.
There the LORD will redeem you
out of the hand of your enemies. *
Reading the rest of the chapter, we see that part of God’s plan was to have a “ruler out of Bethlehem, Israel”. This is recapping how Israel will struggle but give birth to the Messiah.
Later on in Revelation 12:14, the woman is saved by being carried by “Eagles Wings” into the wild, away from Satan’s reach.
In Exodus 19, God tells Moses:
"This is what you are to say to the house of Jacob and what you are to tell the people of Israel: 4 'You yourselves have seen what I did to Egypt, and how I carried you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself.
This parallel symbolizes refuge on how God rescued Israel from Egypt and into the wild. Once again, the woman is clearly Israel.
**That imagery in Revelation 12 should not to be taken literally. Because if it was, then you’re saying that Mary had offspring as in Revelation 12:14 which contradicts the Catholic’s dogma of her perpetual virginity. The offspring were identified as Christians and it makes sense that Israel gave birth to Christians. **You should probably read more Scriptures.
Based on the context of that entire Scripture, we know that the woman in Revelation 12 is the nation of Israel NOT Mary. Nice try though.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
The 12 stars do represent the 12 tribes of Israel. Christ is the head of the NEW Israel, His Church.Ummmm…are you sure about that?
It’s very clear that the stars symbolizes the 12 tribes just like it did in Joseph’s dreams in Genesis 37:9-11
In Isaiah 66: 7-10, Isaiah depicts Jerusalem, Israel as a woman going into labor and delivering a “son”
*7 “Before she goes into labor,
she gives birth;
before the pains come upon her,
she delivers a son.
8 Who has ever heard of such a thing?
Who has ever seen such things?
Can a country be born in a day
or a nation be brought forth in a moment?
Yet no sooner is Zion in labor
than she gives birth to her children.
9 Do I bring to the moment of birth
and not give delivery?” says the LORD.
“Do I close up the womb
when I bring to delivery?” says your God.
10 "Rejoice with Jerusalem and be glad for her,
all you who love her;
rejoice greatly with her,
all you who mourn over her. *
We also see this in Micah 4: 9-10, Micah depicts Israel as the daughter of Zion (God’s Kingdom) going through labor pains.
*Why do you now cry aloud—
have you no king?
Has your counselor perished,
that pain seizes you like that of a woman in labor?
10 Writhe in agony, O Daughter of Zion,
like a woman in labor,
for now you must leave the city
to camp in the open field.
You will go to Babylon;
there you will be rescued.
There the LORD will redeem you
out of the hand of your enemies. *
Reading the rest of the chapter, we see that part of God’s plan was to have a “ruler out of Bethlehem, Israel”. This is recapping how Israel will struggle but give birth to the Messiah.
Later on in Revelation 12:14, the woman is saved by being carried by “Eagles Wings” into the wild, away from Satan’s reach.
In Exodus 19, God tells Moses:
"This is what you are to say to the house of Jacob and what you are to tell the people of Israel: 4 'You yourselves have seen what I did to Egypt, and how I carried you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself.
This parallel symbolizes refuge on how God rescued Israel from Egypt and into the wild. Once again, the woman is clearly Israel.
That imagery in Revelation 12 should not to be taken literally. Because if it was, then you’re saying that Mary had offspring as in Revelation 12:14 which contradicts the Catholic’s dogma of her perpetual virginity. The offspring were identified as Christians and it makes sense that Israel gave birth to Christians. You should probably read more Scriptures.
Based on the context of that entire Scripture, we know that the woman in Revelation 12 is the nation of Israel NOT Mary. Nice try though.
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with an iron rod. And her son was taken up to God and to his throne.
You should probably gett some help in interpreting scriptures as opposed to private interpretations.
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dougfreed
Guest
“Christ is the only mediator between man and God” this is true. As far as praying for others is that not what is said in James 5:15-16?
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
Let’s see, where did Mary give birth to Christ? A manager, in Bethlehem, Israel. Must have been a struggle to have given birth in a manager, or a pain you might say.
Mat 2:13 And after they were departed, behold an angel of the Lord appeared in sleep to Joseph, saying: Arise, and take the child and his mother, and fly into Egypt: and be there until I shall tell thee. For it will come to pass that Herod will seek the child to destroy him.
The angel of the Lord told Joseph to take the child and His mother, and fly into Egypt. Kind of like on the wings of an angel, they escaped, you might say.
According to your private interpretation. According to Catholic interpretation, the woman is Mary.
That imagery in Revelation 12 should be taken literally, because Mary’s offspring was taken up to God and to His throne.That imagery in Revelation 12 should not to be taken literally. Because if it was, then you’re saying that Mary had offspring as in Revelation 12:14 which contradicts the Catholic’s dogma of her perpetual virginity. The offspring were identified as Christians and it makes sense that Israel gave birth to Christians. You should probably read more Scriptures.
Based on the context of that entire Scripture, we know that the woman in Revelation 12 is the nation of Israel NOT Mary. Nice try though.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
Then why do Protestants ask other Christians to pray for them?
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Hercules253
Guest
Um yeah I know that and you still neglected one part (which is not a surprise)…
If the woman in Rev 12 is in fact was literally Mary like you claim, then did she literally have offspring?
*Rev 12:17 *
17Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring…
So you positioned yourself in a major contradiction:
Either the woman was literally Mary and she literally had offspring (not according to Catholic)
Or
the woman was Not Mary…
waiting for your response…
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Hercules253
Guest
But Revelation 12:17 clearly states “the rest of her offspring”…ummm, that’s plural…
so you’re incorrect there…
Here’s the kick off…12:7 also identifies that the rest of her offspring as “those who obey God’s commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.”…(its a plurality statement)
So you’re telling me that Mary “literally” gave birth to followers of Christ? I highly recommend that you read Revelation 12 again…you’re context doesn’t make any sense
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
The woman was Mary. The bride of Christ is His Church. Through Mary’s offspring we are all born again, into His Church, or the kingdom of God. Christ’s offsprings are Mary’s offsprings, just as Jesus came from the seed of David…Um yeah I know that and you still neglected one part (which is not a surprise)…
If the woman in Rev 12 is in fact was literally Mary like you claim, then did she literally have offspring?
*Rev 12:17 *
17Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring…
So you positioned yourself in a major contradiction:
Either the woman was literally Mary and she literally had offspring (not according to Catholic)
Or
the woman was Not Mary…
waiting for your response…
You have to remember, John did not understand the implications of all his vision.
It’s not a contradiction, but a difference of interpretations that separates your view and the Catholic view. The Catholic interpretation is 2000 years old. Your interpretation came since the reformation of the 1500s.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
Christ, the Messiah, was born through Mary. Christ was from the seed of David. Was this a direct seed? No. Christ’s bride was His Church, where we all become children of God or those who obey God’s commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus. Through Mary’s subjection to God’s will, we are born again through Christ, her Son, and His bride. We are offsprings, or children, of God. God the Son’s mother was Mary, We are children of God, the Father, the SON and the Holy Spirit. Are you starting to see the lineage?But Revelation 12:17 clearly states “the rest of her offspring”…ummm, that’s plural…
so you’re incorrect there…
Here’s the kick off…12:7 also identifies that the rest of her offspring as “those who obey God’s commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.”…(its a plurality statement)
So you’re telling me that Mary “literally” gave birth to followers of Christ? I highly recommend that you read Revelation 12 again…you’re context doesn’t make any sense
The Bible says we are born again, were you literally born again?
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wisdomseeker
Guest
her off spring are the Catholics. the believers, the disciples. remember when Jesus said. Woman behold your son, then He said to the disciple behold your Mother. and John took her home.Um yeah I know that and you still neglected one part (which is not a surprise)…
If the woman in Rev 12 is in fact was literally Mary like you claim, then did she literally have offspring?
*Rev 12:17 *
17Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring…
So you positioned yourself in a major contradiction:
Either the woman was literally Mary and she literally had offspring (not according to Catholic)
Or
the woman was Not Mary…
waiting for your response…
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
You edited your post, after I responded…
Ok, what is the difference asking a live person to pray for you, verses an eternally alive person to pray for you?
Heb 12:1 And therefore we also having so great a cloud of witnesses over our head, laying aside every weight and sin which surrounds us, let us run by patience to the fight proposed to us:
Who were the 4 and 20 ancients delivering our prayers up to the Lamb in St. John’s vision?
Rev 5:8 And when he had opened the book, the four living creatures and the four and twenty ancients fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
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puppypatrol
Guest
You fail to recognize that Luther did not give up his honor of Mary and all of her titles. That he did is simply myth and not based on fact.
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elvisman
Guest
**By stating this - you are guilty of the Nestorian Heresy which was squelched in the 5th Century by the Church. This heresy denies the doctrine of the Hypostatic Union of Jesus - that is that his divine nature and his physical nature CANNOT be seperated. Jesus is 100% God and 100% man. **
**Mary is the mother of the 2nd person in the Trinity, therefore she is the mother of God. **If you deny this, then you deny that Jesus is God.
The Church has never taught that she is the mother of the Trinity.
**Nice try - well, not really . . .
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:By stating this - you are guilty of the Nestorian Heresy which was squelched in the 5th Century by the Church. This heresy denies the doctrine of the Hypostatic Union of Jesus - that is that his divine nature and his physical nature CANNOT be seperated. Jesus is 100% God and 100% man.
**Mary is the mother of the 2nd person in the Trinity, therefore she is the mother of God. **If you deny this, then you deny that Jesus is God.
The Church has never taught that she is the mother of the Trinity.
**Nice try - well, not *really ***. . .
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