Protestants listen up

[Prodigal_Son1]

Darn it; went to post#672, and didn’t find that all scripture provided, proved that apostles forgave sins In James 5:16, who is referred to, when we say, “confess our sins, one to another?” Is that you and I?

What difference would it make to you? You say you only confess your sins to Christ, yet that scripture confirms a confession before “men”.

The Apostles taught those they ordained, the authority of the Church. We have scriptures to help us understand where the things originated that the authority teaches us.

And who is the “Him” referenced in 1John 1:9? Could it be God, because the rest of the verse say,“And to cleanse us from all wickedness”. Were the disciples/apostles also given this power? Just wanting some clarification! I read this vers every which way but loose, and still can’t see that it’s ajohn saying"Your sins are forgiven".

The “He” in 1 John 1:9 is most assuredly Him. Being forgiven of your sins is cleansing of wickedness, if it is confessed with a contrite heart and a sincere promise to try and avoid that sin again. Christ said to the Apostles, “those sins you forgive are forgiven, those sins you retain are retained” and “whatsoever thou bound on earth will be bound in heaven and whatsoever thou loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” Sounds like an authority to act on His behalf to me. It also sounds like we should have confidence in the Lord that those matters would be overseen by Him, through His Holy Spirit protection. The same as the Lord showed confidence that His truth could be protected from the chair of authority, through divine intervention, even through sinful men.

Mat 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses.
Mat 23:3 All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not. For they say, and do not.

 

[elvisman]

Ever think that religion is man’ attempt to get back to God(ever since the fall) and CHRISTianity is arelationship with God through His Son Jesus Christ?

James 1:26-27:
**"If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, his religion is vain. **
Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their affliction and to keep oneself unstained by the world."

 

[almightyservant]

This thread is going in all directions.

I believe it’s a both/and. There is a reason we primarily worship on Sundays and not Fridays. Our salvation comes for Christ’s sacrifice AND His triumph over death.

O+

I believe you are right Luke. It’s just a shame that many Christians do not recognise the importance of His holy sacrifice as much as His triumph over death.

I’m training myself to pray as one trains to become physically fit, to meditate on the “Stations of the Cross” or “Way of the Cross”. The value of seeing Jesus on the Cross becomes clear if one includes meditation on the 14 stations as part of prayer. Having a crucifix instead fo a cross is not necessary, but it’s a good idea to use things advantageous to save my soul.

 

[racing59]

prodigal: You may not believe this, but I do enjoy reading your posts; even the ones that are long, involved, and borderline boring(too much technical stuff) And I enjoy debating with you! And I know (I think it was you) that you had an issue with ppapas316(W-O-W, I didn’t realize he was a catholic for 33 years) about whether or not catholics were Christians I can tell you, man-to-man, brother-to-brother, that I have never knowingly challenged ANYONE’S Christianity! A fiend of mine at work, who happens to be a catholic, once told me, that"All catholics are Christians, but not all Christians are catholicI asked him what he meant by that, and he said,“Well, when you’re a catholic, you’re just born into it!” I said “Really?” And I applaud your knowledge of scripture, and your perseverance in defending the catholic religion! If you were to read all of my posts, you would notice that I do not embrace any organized religion, nor do I defend any pastor, priest, etc. My focus is on Christ, as He is the one who lives in me, directs my steps, talks to me, and I to Him! The empty Cross is my reminder of not only the horror of His crucifixion, but the glory of His victory over the world, and death(two things that Satan rules over! And as far as works and faith, I do not believe that God measures us by how much we do, but just because we are His:thumbsup:We are human beings, not human doings! The story of the prodigal son is a prime example of our relationship with God! We wander away, sin, sin, sin, and then come back to God, with our tails between our legs, begging forgiveness! And He takes us back! Could you do the same thing with your son/daughter, or would you say,"You made your bed, now sleep in it! Hey, I love Jesus as much as you do, and because of grace, I am no longer bound by the law, but have a better understanding of the law! I have the Peace of Christ, and may you also find and hold onto that peace! Psalms 46:10

1beleevr, I’ve been reading all the post for a while. You have a good heart in Jesus Christ,but you say Churches are man made, then I ask you why do you go to Calvary Chapel? Is that not man made? Do you believe in I Peter 29-10 we are a Royal Priesthood? If you do then were is your Liturgical worship in your service? The very word Priest is to offer Sacrifice is it not? Do you believe in Covenants the whole Bible is full of the OT and NT? Did not John fall as though he was dead in Rvelation 1:17 when he say Jesus?

 

[MrS]

1beleevr, I’ve been reading all the post for a while. You have a good heart in Jesus Christ,but you say Churches are man made, then I ask you why do you go to Calvary Chapel? Is that not man made? Do you believe in I Peter 29-10 we are a Royal Priesthood? If you do then were is your Liturgical worship in your service? The very word Priest is to offer Sacrifice is it not? Do you believe in Covenants the whole Bible is full of the OT and NT? Did not John fall as though he was dead in Rvelation 1:17 when he say Jesus?

Just be careful not to usurp the Ministerial Priesthood, initiated at the Last Supper. It is to the Ministerial Priesthood which Jesus gave the powers to consecrate, to ordain, to absolve sin in His name etc.

In Jude we read the warning to the early Church members (and to all the laity in other faith communities who “become” pastors etc) not to repeat the error in Numbers and suffer the wrath of Korah.

The early Church had ministerial priests… or else there would have been no reason to warn the laity not to usurp their responsibilities.

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[Prodigal_Son1]

I wanted to let everyone know, so they don’t think I am ignoring their posts to me, I just got called in for a 72 hour straight shift. I’m in EMS. It was originally two 24 hour shifts with a break in between.

I would appreciate prayers that I am able to respond fast, safe, professional and with compassion. Don’t forget to pray for those who need an EMS response.

There are a lot of competent people here to answer all your questions. I will browse through and try to catch up when I get back home.

God Bless you all.

 

[MrS]

I wanted to let everyone know, so they don’t think I am ignoring their posts to me, I just got called in for a 72 hour straight shift. I’m in** EMS**. It was originally two 24 hour shifts with a break in between.

I would appreciate prayers that I am able to respond fast, safe, professional and with compassion. Don’t forget to pray for those who need an EMS response.

There are a lot of competent people here to answer all your questions. I will browse through and try to catch up when I get back home.

God Bless you all.

Take care, and

Evangelize
My
Son

 

[racing59]

Just be careful not to usurp the Ministerial Priesthood, initiated at the Last Supper. It is to the Ministerial Priesthood which Jesus gave the powers to consecrate, to ordain, to absolve sin in His name etc.

In Jude we read the warning to the early Church members (and to all the laity in other faith communities who “become” pastors etc) not to repeat the error in Numbers and suffer the wrath of Korah.

The early Church had ministerial priests… or else there would have been no reason to warn the laity not to usurp their responsibilities.
.

Hi MrS, You bring up a good case for your belief, my belief can be found within Luke9:46-50 Who is the lest is the Greatest. Further John complained of others that weren’t Apostles casting out demons(Exorcism) in the name of the Lord.Jesus said," Do not prevent him, for whoever is not against you is for you." I take it as the Preisthood does go outside Apostolic succession, because clearly this man was not an Apostle, yet Jesus said let him preform an Exorcism. I’m not against you!

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Hi MrS, You bring up a good case for your belief, my belief can be found within Luke9:46-50 Who is the lest is the Greatest. Further John complained of others that weren’t Apostles casting out demons(Exorcism) in the name of the Lord.Jesus said," Do not prevent him, for whoever is not against you is for you." I take it as the Preisthood does go outside Apostolic succession, because clearly this man was not an Apostle, yet Jesus said let him preform an Exorcism. I’m not against you!

Praying for another is short of making eccumenical decisions. Christ praised many for their faith, but He didn’t appoint/ordain them. Some He had performed miracles on, He instructed that they tell no one, but they didn’t listen.

**Mat 8:4 And Jesus saith to him: See thou tell no man: but go, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift which Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

Luk 8:56 And her parents were astonished, whom he charged to tell no man what was done.

Mar 7:36 And he charged them that they should tell no man. But the more he charged them, so much the more a great deal did they publish it.**

Being healed directly by Christ would cause great faith, but He charged them to tell no one.

Catholics view Protestants as separated brethren and Christians. Now, let’s view the discussions on these forums. You seem to have an open view. Are some of those in discussions with Catholics on these forums “against us”? I have even asked some if they view Catholicism as a Christian religion, but they will not respond to that simple question.

 

[racing59]

Catholics view Protestants as separated brethren, but Christians none the less. Now, let’s view the discussions on these forums. You seem to have an open view. Are some of those in discussions with Catholics on these forums “against us”?

Prodigal, you are absolutely right about some Christians on these threads that attack Catholic Faith.I read these post and try not to comment, but to learn from all. It does get me upset when some one is close minded and it is only their way. I enjoy good discussions, but I can’t stand when people attack Catholic Faith, because it is still a Christian Faith. You have a safe weekend doing your EMS. I got to race this weekend so I’ll pray for you could you pray for me. Thank you, your brothers in Christ.
Peace be with you

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Prodigal, you are absolutely right about some Christians on these threads that attack Catholic Faith.I read these post and try not to comment, but to learn from all. It does get me upset when some one is close minded and it is only their way. I enjoy good discussions, but I can’t stand when people attack Catholic Faith, because it is still a Christian Faith. You have a safe weekend doing your EMS. I got to race this weekend so I’ll pray for you could you pray for me. Thank you, your brothers in Christ.
Peace be with you

You’re in my prayers. Good luck in the race!

 

[Hisalone]

In another thread, on another topic, I explained why Christ said, “It is finished.” I wish to share that with you and hope it opens your eyes to understanding what was really happening when He said that.

The Passover meal was part of the covenant from God and men. It required an active participation. In reading Exodus 12:17, we see this was to be done perpetually, for ever. To reject the Last Supper as the adjustment to, or replacement of, or more specifically a fulfillment of, the covenant command of God, means we should still be celebrating the Passover meal as prescribed by God.

We know from Jeremiah 31:31, a new covenant was prophesied. This prophesy was brought to mind in the New Testament, in a letter from St. Paul to the Hebrews 8:7 – 12.

The prescription of the Passover meal was detailed and clear from the Lord, as written in Exodus 12.

A lamb without blemish was to be slaughtered at twilight, eaten with unleavened bread, the lamb’s blood was to be sprinkled on the doorposts with hyssop, none of the lamb’s bones were to be broken, and this ordinance was to be celebrated perpetually.

The Jewish Passover meal consisted of:

1. The Festival Blessing – Drink from the 1st cup of wine.
2. Passover Narrative and Little Hallel (Psalms 113) – Drink from 2nd cup of wine.
3. Main Meal: roasted lamb, unleavened bread, and bitter herbs and spices – Drink from 3rd cup of wine.
4. Great Hallel (Psalms 114 – 118) and the drinking of the 4th cup of wine, and closed when presiding priest or host says the phrase, “TEL TELESTI” which is interpreted as “It is finished” or “It is consummated”.

Now let’s look at the Lord’s Supper that occurred during the celebration of the Passover, or Seder, meal.

3 of the Gospel authors told us about the Lord’s Supper. Matthew, Mark and Luke wrote about it. All 3 say He gave the cup, of the new covenant, to the Apostles and told them to drink, but it does not tell us that Christ, the High Priest, drank of the cup. Matthew 26:29, Mark 14:25 and Luke 22:18, tells us that, during the Passover meal, Christ announced He would not drink fruit of the vine again, until he drank it in the Kingdom of God. After making this announcement, Matthew 26:30 and Mark 14:26 tell us, “Then, after singing a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.” After singing a hymn, the great Hallel, they went out to the garden, without the High Priest closing the celebration, not only not closing the celebration, but declaring He would not drink fruit of the vine again, until He drank it in the Kingdom of God. He did not say, “It is finished” or “It is consummated”.
In the garden, our Lord prayed to the father to let this cup be passed from Him, if it was the Father’s will. Matthew 22:44 tells us that Christ prayed this 3 times. What cup was Christ praying be passed from Him? I believe it was the 4th cup that closed the Passover meal, which was fulfilled with the Lord’s Supper.

When God made the covenant with Moses, Moses asked who to tell had told him of the covenant, Exodus 3:13 – 14. God told Moses, “I am, who I am.”

When Christ was arrested in the garden, He asked who they were looking for and they replied, “Jesus of Nazareth”. In John 18:5, Jesus told them, “I AM he”. When those arresting Him heard this, they went backward and fell to the ground (John 18:6).

Mark 15:22 – 24 told us that Christ was offered wine drugged with myrrh, but He did not drink it.

John 19:28 – 30 explains that Our Lord, aware that everything was now finished, in order that scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst”. Hearing this, they took a sponge and dipped it in common wine, sour wine, fruit of the vine, and held it up to His mouth with hyssop. After taking the wine, our Lord said, “It is finished”, bowed His head and gave up the spirit.

John 19:33 – 38 told us that our Lord’s legs were not broken, so that scripture might be fulfilled.

Mark 15:33 – 34 tells us the time the Lamb of God death, which was twilight, the same time Moses was instructed to slaughter the sacrificial lamb.

Christ came to fulfill the law, and it was fulfilled with the new covenant. A covenant of God and men, that requires participation of those being set free.

It is Rome who forbade the participation of her followers in the Passover. It is Rome who excommunicated those that did. It is Rome that moved the celebration of Easter to a pagan holiday much against the wishes of the followers of John the apostle.
Tell is oh PS what do the third and fourth cup in passover represent. And tell us if “It is finised” has only significance as in reference to the Passover.

 

[Hisalone]

Praying for another is short of making eccumenical decisions. Christ praised many for their faith, but He didn’t appoint/ordain them. Some He had performed miracles on, He instructed that they tell no one, but they didn’t listen.

**Mat 8:4 And Jesus saith to him: See thou tell no man: but go, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift which Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

Luk 8:56 And her parents were astonished, whom he charged to tell no man what was done.

Mar 7:36 And he charged them that they should tell no man. But the more he charged them, so much the more a great deal did they publish it.**

Being healed directly by Christ would cause great faith, but He charged them to tell no one.

Catholics view Protestants as separated brethren and Christians. Now, let’s view the discussions on these forums. You seem to have an open view. Are some of those in discussions with Catholics on these forums “against us”? I have even asked some if they view Catholicism as a Christian religion, but they will not respond to that simple question.

Catholicism falls under the pale of Christianity. Many Castholics do not know Christ al beit many do.

 

[Hisalone]

Did you ever notice these so-called “Bible Based Churches” seem to be free from attack? I wonder why that is. Could it be that the Devil has no reason to attack things that are already seperate from God? ANd then we can ask why did you leave the Church? Was it after a long process of discernment looking for the Truth? Somehow, I doubt it. The priest, or your Bishop, or the Pope said something you didn’t like. Or perhaps you came across something in the Catechism (I am assuming you have actually read it) that you did not want to submit to. So you went church shopping. ANd you found one that you could live with. One that would let you say “I go to church”, but it didn’t do anything too cahllenge you. One where you had no mandate to become more Christlike. I could be wrong, but I don’t think so. A search for the Truth never leads one away from the Catholic Church. Of coursr it might not be your fault. It is no secret that catechesis has been quite poor over the last 30-40 years.

The search for truth lead me away from the Catholic Church.
As for bible based churches arent persecuted? Have you had your head buried in the sand? The whole culture of evolution, moral relativism, secular humanism is at war with bible based Christianity.

 

[Hisalone]

Brother I hate to say it but don’t waste to much time debating Prodigal on this issue. You could show Him the bible in person and he would still disagree with you. As my Pastor said “sometime its best not to spend too much time on a person that is never going to see the truth anyway.” It is time to move on. As a former Catholic for 33 yrs I know what it is like to try and defend your faith but never really knowing the truth. Thank God I and my family left the church and have been blessed for the last 10 years attending a bibled based church Calvary Chapel. Be Blessed and continue the good fight of faith.

Prodical lives on this forum and will attack but will file a formal complaint if you attack back, be carefull. 90% of his scripture citings are out of context. Yet he will claim his is basing on scripture, he will continue to ask you questions but never address any of yours.

 

[CWBetts]

The search for truth lead me away from the Catholic Church.
As for bible based churches arent persecuted? Have you had your head buried in the sand? The whole culture of evolution, moral relativism, secular humanism is at war with bible based Christianity.

They are not persecuted to the degree as the Catholic Church. In fact, anti-Catholicism is the last acceptible prejudice. Don’t you find it interesting that out of 45 Presidents, there have only been 3 candidates that were Catholic. In the case of Al Smith (against FDR) he was accused of intending to turn over soveriegnty to the Vatican! Don’t you find it odd that no one seems to bring it up when non-Catholic clergy violate the trust of their position? It becomes the scandal that won’t go away with Catholics! DOn’t you find it interesting that Catholicism is usually portrayed as corrupt in the entertainment media, but non-Catholics don’t face the same inherent bias. Satan is working hard against the Church, but not so much the non-denominational “mega-churches” Why? He doenn’t need to worry about them. ANd to make it worse, so called"Christians" spend a great deal of time and energy attacking the Church. HAve you seen how many non Catholics come on these forums to attack Catholicism. Take a trip to YouTube, and you will see a plethora of videos with one purpose: to attack the Catholic Church. Do not presume to tell me that non-denominationals are persecuted. You don’t know the meaning of the word.

 

[CWBetts]

Prodical lives on this forum and will attack but will file a formal complaint if you attack back, be carefull. 90% of his scripture citings are out of context. Yet he will claim his is basing on scripture, he will continue to ask you questions but never address any of yours.

Prodigal does not sink to personal attack, unlike yorurself. He sticks to the heretical doctrines you promulgate.

 

[rinnie]

Prodical lives on this forum and will attack but will file a formal complaint if you attack back, be carefull. 90% of his scripture citings are out of context. Yet he will claim his is basing on scripture, he will continue to ask you questions but never address any of yours.

Bring it on hisalone. Isn’t it funny how all of a sudden when he says he will be gone for a day or so you attack. I will also be gone for the weekend but show me where ONE piece of his scripture was taken out of context. Then show me YOUR authority. Don’t think I will hear from you for awhile! But bring it on. Can’t wait to hear where he has taken scripture out of context. But if not pick on me! I am ready for you. Show me where I have said one thing that goes against the teachings of the Catholic Church!

 

[CWBetts]

Bring it on hisalone. Isn’t it funny how all of a sudden when he says he will be gone for a day or so you attack. I will also be gone for the weekend but show me where ONE piece of his scripture was taken out of context. Then show me YOUR authority. Don’t think I will hear from you for awhile! But bring it on. Can’t wait to hear where he has taken scripture out of context. But if not pick on me! I am ready for you. Show me where I have said one thing that goes against the teachings of the Catholic Church!

You realize. of course since he has been informed that we won’t stand for his attacking those who are not disposed to quickly respond, he will probably slither off like a coward.

 

[MrS]

Bring it on hisalone. Isn’t it funny how all of a sudden when he says he will be gone for a day or so you attack. I will also be gone for the weekend but show me where ONE piece of his scripture was taken out of context. Then show me YOUR authority. Don’t think I will hear from you for awhile! But bring it on. Can’t wait to hear where he has taken scripture out of context. But if not pick on me! I am ready for you. Show me where I have said one thing that goes against the teachings of the Catholic Church!

Pick on me if you wish to. By the grace of God I am a practicing Catholic again. That means I do not have all the answers, like those outside the Church think they have. But I do have the biggest advantages…

• I have the source of the Truth Jesus and His Word and promises to refer to, along with
• the human authors of those Scriptures,
• the councils which clarify them and condemn the heretics and erroneous teachings/teachers
• the early Church Fathers who protected, interpreted, and handed on what Jesus gave us
• the promises given and kept, that the Holy Spirit would lead us… the one Church founded by Jesus Himself, into all truth.

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