Protestants on this forum: Do you consider Catholics to be Christians?

[ALLFORHIM]

First of all, I have to say I love the quick short “of course” answers on this thread! Made me chuckle…because I’m a little more on the long winded side! Good idea, just saying “of course”

Amen! Couldn’t agree more.

Great question/clarification, Roman_Catholic. I find it very sad that people are so quick to judge and say that devout Catholics cannot be true believers. I would say that on this forum I have been blown away by many very well informed, knowledgeable, *devout *catholics, who truly love Jesus as their Lord and their Savior. Awesome! (and I would venture to say I have seen the same of many protestant members on this forum…goes both ways)

However, it is wise to remember what Jesus said in Mark 6:6-7

*“These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.” *

I think that we, as human beings, are easily swayed by all the rules and traditions (and titles/names) that we are all taught growing up in various churches, and I think many people, protestant and catholic, can go through the motions and look good on the outside to all men (and claim to be Christians), but on the inside not truly be right with God…just as AllForHim cited in her example earlier. Look at the Pharisees in the NT. They were great examples of those who followed rules to the extreme, but were like whitewashed tombs, hypocrites, and further from God then ever.

All I can say is, I am thankful for each of my brothers and sisters in Christ, Catholic and Protestant, who are striving to love God with all their heart, soul, mind and strength and reach out to this lost world for Christ!

AMEN!!! Well said:thumbsup: :extrahappy:

 

[jack_hawkins]

to add to my vote (in my capacity of an “ex-Protestant”), “cradle” Catholics or Protestants who have merely been brought up in a tradition and follow the external observances but haven’t been born again are not Christians

 

[Publisher]

One of the things I have been impressed by with Catholicism, even though I don’t see it expressed by it’s adherants all the time, is that only God is true Judge…no one This Side can determine who is and who is not “going to heaven”.

 

[lak611]

One of the things I have been impressed by with Catholicism, even though I don’t see it expressed by it’s adherants all the time, is that only God is true Judge…no one This Side can determine who is and who is not “going to heaven”.

That is why we cant judge whether someone is or isnt a christian(meaning saved and going to heaven) because if we can decieve ourselves then we surely can decieve the rest of the world.
Was it Mozart that said we can only go by what we see and what we hear:shrug: We dont know a person’s heart.

This is so true.

 

[The_Truthinator]

I agree. I can never know someone’s heart, which is why my answer to this question is a not a clear-cut “yes-no” deal …

Is Catholicism a part of Christendom? I don’t know, honestly. It might be; might not be. I know people on both sides who can support their reasoning. I say, probably so, though I doubt much of their doctrines, though certainly not (not even close, really) all.

Furthermore, here’s the big deal: Are all Catholics saved? No. A thousand times over, no. What a foolish question! One might be the most orxthodox Catholic and still be damned … Our acquittal is not based on orxthodoxy, but on faith. Then are all Protestants saved? Of course not! Therein lies the problem with this thread: What matters is the state of the soul and heart of the believer, which is something only God can know. Many Catholics and Protestants alike on that great Day will receive just and fit punishment for their sins, and suffer eternally, even. Yes, I dare say even we can never be as confident as our Maker in the state of grace in which we currently reside. So then we must pray.

So to really answer your question, all who’ve partaken in Catechism (I believe, I may be wrong) are Catholics; all Catholics are not Christians, and thus all are not saved.

(This is not a fence-post position; I will say the same of Baptists, Methodists, Nazarenes, Pentecostals, Episcopalians, Anglicans, Church-of-Christs, Lutherans, the like … Institution does not cover salvation, not by a long shot …)

 

[chutton]

Institution does not cover salvation, not by a long shot …)

Amen.

I am very happy to see the results of this poll.

Several months ago, in a non-religious forum, a young man I silently applauded for his ‘Christian’ beliefs & actions posted the statement that Catholics were not Christian.

And that is what his church had taught him.

I imagine the above kind of experience is why this thread was started.

 

[teachccd]

all Catholics are not Christians, and thus all are not saved.

If a Catholic is not a Christian then he/ she is not a Catholic. Catholic is a definitive term describing a type of Christian. So to say that a Catholic is not a Christian is really saying that a “universal” Christian is not a Christian. We have to emphasize that it’s not Catholic or Christian. It’s only " Christian". Protestant Christian, Catholic Christian , non denominational Christian, Evangelical Christian or fundamentalist Christians are all Christian.

The_Truthinator, I fully understand your post and agree with the majority of your expressions however I just needed to clarify that Catholic is not apart from Christianity but an identity of Christian beliefs. God Bless…teachccd

 

[Grateful4mercy]

… I say, probably so, though I doubt much of their doctrines, though certainly not (not even close, really) all…

You’ll never get to be Pope with THAT kind of attitude

I think that people are trying to make this an individual, person by person question. I’d sort of like to hear their views on the RCC as a whole.

Is THE CHURCH Christian, in your views?

 

[Sixtus]

As with all communities, there are some who are distinguished by their devotion to the Lord. There are some wretches [myself included] who are trying to live a Christian life, respect Christian values religious and cultural diversity. There are those who are lukewarm and there are those who quite frankly are not Christian nor the remotest bit interested. They are what I call the ‘Political’ Christians because they are looking for ‘power’ relationships and are always spoiling for a fight

I think there are some very devout Catholics,. There are also some very devout Protestants. I have no doubt devotion is found in all religions, sadly too fanatics who advocate the very opposite to what Christ preached.

 

[Allweather]

I know I’m not a Protestant, but I play one on TV… no, no, that’s not right. I once was a Protestant, but that was a long time ago. Sixtus is correct, there are a lot of really devout Protestants, and these are not very distinguishable from very devout Catholics, near as I can tell. Long and short, I’m trying to be less judgemental about who is and who is not Christian. It isn’t up to me to say. Not on the personal level. I think we can look at a religion and judge whether it teaches orthodox Christianity, but we can’t say for sure whether individuals within that religion are truly Christian. Only God knows for sure.

 

[The_Truthinator]

So to say that a Catholic is not a Christian is really saying that a “universal” Christian is not a Christian.

True, but all Christians are universal. Does that make them Catholic … or catholic, though?

You’ll never get to be Pope with THAT kind of attitude

But you don’t know my secret identity … What if I AM the Pope?

I think there are some very devout Catholics,. There are also some very devout Protestants.

I agree. It’s a very PERSONAL matter …

 

[teachccd]

True, but all Christians are universal. Does that make them Catholic … or catholic, though?

Ponder that for a moment

 

[Zirconia]

Protestants, Do you consider us catholics to be “saved” Christians? Why or why not?

Of course! So far as prerequisites for being a “saved” Christian, I don’t think it gets much clearer than…

“That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” Romans 10:9

I’d say Catholics fit those criteria.

Zirconia

 

[teachccd]

Of course! So far as prerequisites for being a “saved” Christian, I don’t think it gets much clearer than…

“That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” Romans 10:9

I’d say Catholics fit those criteria.

Zirconia

Will be saved?? And what if one is mute?? I am not kidding here. What if one cannot confess with their mouth? Literalists please explain how that soul is saved. How about where Jesus says that not all who say," Lord Lord" will inherit the kingdom??

That is a VERY limited criteria and would be the only necessary source of scripture. All the rest could be discarded. Yes, Catholics meet that foundational criteria and then adhere to so many more commands of Christ…God Bless

 

[Michael_Howard]

Of course! So far as prerequisites for being a “saved” Christian, I don’t think it gets much clearer than…

“That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” Romans 10:9

I’d say Catholics fit those criteria.

Zirconia

Good morning brother and thanks for the discussion. I think it’s important when using this passage to follow it back to it’s source and then build from there. This passage in Romans 10:9 Paul is referencing Deuteronomy 30:10 which falls into the context of prosperity after turning to the Lord. Chapter 30:15 states:

“See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. For I command you today to love the Lord your God and walk in His ways, and keep His commands, decrees and laws: then you will live and increase and the Lord your God will bless you` in the land you are entering to possess.”

I think in the west we lack understanding as to the Hebrew of understanding of the word “hear”. In Hebrew the word is “Shemah” which means not only to hear to to immediately act upon what you hear thus proving you are faithful to the commandments.

Consider Jesus warning to the seven churches in the book of Revelation, “for those who have ears to hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches”, what were the consequences for not acting upon this admonition from Jesus? Their lampstands would be removed, and what do the lampstands signify? The Holy Spirit and salvation.

Romans 10:17, “Faith comes through hearing”. So to confess with your mouth the word that you heard and to believe in your heart means that you are faithful to follow the commandments and as we know from scripture faith without works is a dead faith.

Understand also that in the early church one could spend up to four years being discipled before being accepted into the church. This rigid discipling was important to weed out imposters and to help the church which was just a new shoot grow in prosper being safeguarded in the Apostles teachings which came from Christ Himself. Undertsand that there is no evidence in the early church of simply praying Jesus into you heart and only giving Him mental consent. God bless!

 

[toaslan]

I Are all Catholics saved? No. A thousand times over, no. What a foolish question!

But, friend, nobody asked that foolish question. Why do you jump to that? It is a mistake to equate the two questions, “Is a Catholic a Christian?” with the question “Is a Catholic saved?”

To be Christian and to be Saved: for Catholics those are two different things while we are here on earth.

So, all who’ve partaken in Catechism (I believe, I may be wrong) are Catholics; all Catholics are not Christians, and thus all are not saved.

You are wrong about the Catechism-Catholic connection. Not even sure what you might mean by that.

What makes a Catholic Christian is baptism. By baptism we are born again into divine life.

What makes a Catholic a good Christian is living his life in Christ and, finally one day, dying in Christ. It is responding to all the graces given day by day. It is following Christ before falling into sin, and it is following Him after falling into sin. Even in sin, unless it is deadly sin, we have His life in us, always calling us to repent and live more in Him.

As to the rest of your above quote

all Catholics are not Christians, and thus all are not saved.

do you instead mean "not all Catholics are Christians, and thus not all are saved’?

 

[Fred_4]

I think it’s a very protestant question, as discussed above. Of course all Catholics are Christians. Will every single person who is or ever was Catholic go to heaven? No. The Church clearly teaches so. There is wheat and chaff together in the kingdom until the judgement day.

It seems that many protestant contributors to this forum are willing to concede that some catholics may go to heaven. Perhaps this is not surprising considering where this forum is located. I wonder what the result and postings might look like if this thread were being discussed on a protestant web site.

 

[teachccd]

I think it’s a very protestant question, as discussed above. Of course all Catholics are Christians. Will every single person who is or ever was Catholic go to heaven? No. The Church clearly teaches so. There is wheat and chaff together in the kingdom until the judgement day.

It seems that many protestant contributors to this forum are willing to concede that some catholics may go to heaven. Perhaps this is not surprising considering where this forum is located. I wonder what the result and postings might look like if this thread were being discussed on a protestant web site.

Very good point as I have not encountered so many protestants willing to give us the benefit of their doubts especially in the fundamentalist Christian realm…

 

[The_Truthinator]

do you instead mean "not all Catholics are Christians, and thus not all are saved’?

Ha, ha! Yes, sorry! It was late (or it felt like it) when I wrote that.

 

[Singinbeauty]

Very good point as I have not encountered so many protestants willing to give us the benefit of their doubts especially in the fundamentalist Christian realm…

It may be much to your surprise that the majority of protestants out there DON’T think that catholics are evil and going to Hell… I know it is not common knowledge in my upbringing nor is it in any of the churches I have attended… There are a few loudmouths… yes… but that goes for catholics as well… Just because a few are judgemental and think protestants should burn in Hell doesn’t make me think that ALL catholics believe this…