Protestants on this forum: Do you consider Catholics to be Christians?

[Zirconia]

Good morning brother and thanks for the discussion. I think it’s important when using this passage to follow it back to it’s source and then build from there. This passage in Romans 10:9 Paul is referencing Deuteronomy 30:10 which falls into the context of prosperity after turning to the Lord. Chapter 30:15 states:

“See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. For I command you today to love the Lord your God and walk in His ways, and keep His commands, decrees and laws: then you will live and increase and the Lord your God will bless you` in the land you are entering to possess.”

I think in the west we lack understanding as to the Hebrew of understanding of the word “hear”. In Hebrew the word is “Shemah” which means not only to hear to to immediately act upon what you hear thus proving you are faithful to the commandments.

Consider Jesus warning to the seven churches in the book of Revelation, “for those who have ears to hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches”, what were the consequences for not acting upon this admonition from Jesus? Their lampstands would be removed, and what do the lampstands signify? The Holy Spirit and salvation.

Romans 10:17, “Faith comes through hearing”. So to confess with your mouth the word that you heard and to believe in your heart means that you are faithful to follow the commandments and as we know from scripture faith without works is a dead faith.

Understand also that in the early church one could spend up to four years being discipled before being accepted into the church. This rigid discipling was important to weed out imposters and to help the church which was just a new shoot grow in prosper being safeguarded in the Apostles teachings which came from Christ Himself. Undertsand that there is no evidence in the early church of simply praying Jesus into you heart and only giving Him mental consent. God bless!

Just wanted to point out that the OP asked if Protestants consider Catholics “saved Christians” and why. I responded that I would say yes, and provided this verse as my answer to the “why” part.

Of course we should behave according to our Christian beliefs, but I thought that went without saying.

Zirconia

 

[lak611]

Just wanted to point out that the OP asked if Protestants consider Catholics “saved Christians” and why. I responded that I would say yes, and provided this verse as my answer to the “why” part.

Of course we should behave according to our Christian beliefs, but I thought that went without saying.

Zirconia

As a Catholic, I also believe that Protestants are Christians.

 

[teachccd]

It may be much to your surprise that the majority of protestants out there DON’T think that catholics are evil and going to Hell…

Maybe so but it’s under their conditions. What I mean is that when a protestant asks me if I accepted Christ of course I say yes. But our soteriology is totally different so they immediately interpret that to mean that I’m “saved” whereby I don’t adhere to that belief. So I’m not going to hell not on Catholic theology but on protestant theology. Am I making sense?? In other words if I said to a protestant that, yes, I believe in Christ and receive Him in the eucharist and my faith and works of love will be judged by Christ at the end of my life they might say that I am not saved and therefore going to hell. I have been told this, by the way.

So no, protestants may not think that Catholics are evil and going to hell as long as we adhere to protestant salvation theology. We find it limited ( only Romans 10:9) and know that Christ requires us to have a faith filled with love not an empty faith cf. James 2:26. So faith and works are necessary for salvation and I’ve yet to find a protestant to agree with this.

So if you know Catholic theology and still feel that Catholics are Christian and can merit heaven then you are a rare breed from the many that I’ve encountered. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ and Catholics believe that all people can be saved, yes even Jews and Muslims because we have a working knowledge of God’s mercy… God Bless

 

[Zooey]

Well, of course, Catholics are Christians!!

Now, if we are being asked to decide which Catholics, which Protestants, and which Orthodox, are going to Heaven… I have no idea. It is not for me to say…
But, may I share a wee story with you all? :
My grandfather was a Methodist class leader. (A peculairly Methodist title which is something like a combination teacher/spiritual advisor/deacon all rolled into one). There was, in my grandparents’ church, a member who apparently believed that he had the inside track on who got to Heaven…
Every week, at the Sunday evening meeting, which was devoted to prayer & sharing of each others’ spiritual needs, it was his habit to pull out the clippings of the week’s obituaries, & read them aloud, ending each time with a pronouncement as to the person’s eternal destiny…As: “…and then he went to hell”; “and then she went to hell”…, “and then he went to hell”…Every single evening, every single obit…(He did rarely, but occasionally, declare, “and then s/he went to Heaven”. But very rarely…
One evening, my grandfather stood up, called the man by name in the midst of his declarations: “Excuse me, but would you please show me where in the Bible, it says that God made you His admission counselors? I have been a member of this church for many years, & before that, I was a minister’s son, and I have never heard not read about it”.
Somewhat started, the man mumbles that he didn’t know what my grandfather meant by that…And my grandfather replied: Well, then, I expect that we will hear no more about it! I for one, intend to spend my own time & effort in making sure that I will make it to Heaven myself, without specualting as to what is the business of God & God alone".
The guy cut it out…
May we, by the power of God, all follow my grandfather’s ever so wise suggestion!!

God bless all here…and, in your charity, please pray for me, a sinner…

 

[Singinbeauty]

Maybe so but it’s under their conditions. What I mean is that when a protestant asks me if I accepted Christ of course I say yes. But our soteriology is totally different so they immediately interpret that to mean that I’m “saved” whereby I don’t adhere to that belief. So I’m not going to hell not on Catholic theology but on protestant theology. Am I making sense?? In other words if I said to a protestant that, yes, I believe in Christ and receive Him in the eucharist and my faith and works of love will be judged by Christ at the end of my life they might say that I am not saved and therefore going to hell. I have been told this, by the way.

So no, protestants may not think that Catholics are evil and going to hell as long as we adhere to protestant salvation theology. We find it limited ( only Romans 10:9) and know that Christ requires us to have a faith filled with love not an empty faith cf. James 2:26. So faith and works are necessary for salvation and I’ve yet to find a protestant to agree with this.

So if you know Catholic theology and still feel that Catholics are Christian and can merit heaven then you are a rare breed from the many that I’ve encountered. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ and Catholics believe that all people can be saved, yes even Jews and Muslims because we have a working knowledge of God’s mercy… God Bless

I am not so sure about this…

Do you believe that Christ died for you? Do you love Him with all of your heart, your mind, and your soul?

'Nuff said…

 

[jack_hawkins]

let’s not get divided on terminology - Catholics are born again and saved. they might not use that terminology but anyone who believes in the Lord truly has been saved, and has been born again

 

[chutton]

Maybe so but it’s under their conditions. What I mean is that when a protestant asks me if I accepted Christ of course I say yes. But our soteriology is totally different so they immediately interpret that to mean that I’m “saved” whereby I don’t adhere to that belief. So I’m not going to hell not on Catholic theology but on protestant theology. Am I making sense?? In other words if I said to a protestant that, yes, I believe in Christ and receive Him in the eucharist and my faith and works of love will be judged by Christ at the end of my life they might say that I am not saved and therefore going to hell. I have been told this, by the way.

So no, protestants may not think that Catholics are evil and going to hell as long as we adhere to protestant salvation theology. We find it limited ( only Romans 10:9) and know that Christ requires us to have a faith filled with love not an empty faith cf. James 2:26. So faith and works are necessary for salvation and I’ve yet to find a protestant to agree with this.

So if you know Catholic theology and still feel that Catholics are Christian and can merit heaven then you are a rare breed from the many that I’ve encountered. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ and Catholics believe that all people can be saved, yes even Jews and Muslims because we have a working knowledge of God’s mercy… God Bless

Do you not feel that this goes both ways? From what I have gathered since being part of this forum and learning why catholics believe what they do, I have discovered that I would be a very likely candidate to go to hell as a result, since I am now informed of the Catholic faith but choose to remain worshipping and meeting with my protestant church family. I am just pointing this out to remind you that what you were just saying protestants do (in expecting catholics to fit into the protestant theology box to be saved) is not isolated to protestants.

Your sister in Christ,
Christina

 

[JesusIsKing]

Protestants, Do you consider us catholics to be “saved” Christians? Why or why not?

Being a ‘Christian’ does not make one ‘saved’. I know many people who claim to be Christians because they have been Christened, Baptised or a member of a church. They aren’t saved. They are deceived. Who have they been deceived by? The ‘church’. Which ‘church’ in particular? The Roman Catholic and some Anglican churches. If one would take the time to study the precious word of God - The Bible. It is clear before our very eyes about how to be ‘saved’. You see, you can be ‘saved’ (Glory be to God) and not lead a very Christ-like (christian) life. Example: The Laodicean church of today. Its spiritually dead -not following the footsteps of Christ. (Lord revive us!!) But we are still saved. You are ‘saved’ by grace, not by works, so that no man/church should boast. According to my Beloved catholic friends, Baptism and the sacraments which follow may be enough. Thats a lie straight from the pit of Hell!! (So is purgatory. Did you know that Rome racked in over 22 billion dollars last year for saying masses for those in purgatory) Why on earth would Jesus die so that people would still go to purgatory!! Lord have Mercy!! The Devil is the Father of Lies. I do not doubt in my heart that there are ‘saved’ Roman Catholics. I live with an ex-roman catholic who was/is saved through a carismatic Roman Catholic church. Note she is no longer a practicing Catholic - far from it. The teachings of the Catholic church stand in the way between an intimate relationship with God Almighty. Just think of the billions who have gone to a priest to have their sins forgiven - the Bible tells us that He Alone Is Worthy to Forgive us our sins!! Lord have Mercy. Asking Mary to interceed. Mary is dead. God forbids communicating with the dead. Open your eyes to the Bible my dear catholic friends, and stop listening to the ‘church’ God wants an intimate, loving relationship with you!!! And the King paid the price!!! He shed his precious blood. In the Bible, Revelation 17 is a great place to start on the teachings of the Catholic church and her destiny. If you distort the word of God you are most definitey not Christian. The Bible tells us that. The Roman Catholic church has deceived billions with her twisted teachings/doctrines. The enemy is subtle. Keep your eyes on Rome. That city on the 7 hills. Watch how her doctrines change/are changing (in particular regarding Mary). Gods word doesnt change. (Malachi 3v6 I change not saith the Lord) So back to the question, are Catholics christians? No. Are catholics saved? Some. Being part of a church does not make you christian or saved. Nor does works. May the Lord open your eyes. Jesus Only. Suggested reading: The Bible. Testimony of Charlotte, The Carmelite Nun. The 2 Babylons by Hislop. The Martyrs of the Reformation

 

[teachccd]

I am not so sure about this…

Do you believe that Christ died for you? Do you love Him with all of your heart, your mind, and your soul?

'Nuff said…

Do you receive the Eucharist? Do you believe Baptism is necessary for salvation? Do you believe in the Sacraments as true encounters with Christ? Do you believe that it is not enough to just believe but that we MUST DO what Christ commands when we pick up our cross and follow Him. (Works) Do you believe that our souls are regenerated at Baptism and receive Sanctifying grace that cleans our soul and not just "Covers"it? Do you believe in the communion of saints and their intercession for us in obtaining holiness? These are all necessary for us Christians. So yes I believe in the fundamental questions that you ask of me above but your list was incomplete, especially if you refuse the Eucharist which is the source and summit of the Chiristian faith as it is Christ Himself…God Bless and there’s never enough said about Christ and His Church:thumbsup:

 

[teachccd]

Do you not feel that this goes both ways? From what I have gathered since being part of this forum and learning why catholics believe what they do, I have discovered that I would be a very likely candidate to go to hell as a result, since I am now informed of the Catholic faith but choose to remain worshipping and meeting with my protestant church family. I am just pointing this out to remind you that what you were just saying protestants do (in expecting catholics to fit into the protestant theology box to be saved) is not isolated to protestants.

Your sister in Christ,
Christina

Christina,

Catholics are not taught to judge anyone. We know that we are the true Church of Jesus Christ through faith and evidence and the resulting Scripture which the Church acknowledged. Yes, understanding the sacramental life of Christianity is of the utmost importance but if you are led differently we do not say that you are condemned. If a Jew asks you if he will go to heaven, what is your answer?? Ours is: we don’t know the infinite mercy of God. Once anyone judges the eternal fate of anyone that person became God… God Bless you…teachccd

 

[JesusIsKing]

Singinbeauty, thanks for the response. And I love that scripture. Verse 5 (46:5) Tis beautiful also. “God is in the midst of her, she shall not be moved.” Gods word is precious. Amen. In response to your reply. Do I Love the Lord Jesus Christ? The answer is, more than life! Without him there is nothing. I cannot get enough of him. “Oh taste and see that the Lord is good”, as the psalmst wrote. Oh what joy it is to walk, talk and worship the Risen Saviour every day!!! I could not live without him. He is my life. He is Life. And He’s coming soon!! Halleluija!!
Do I take the Eucharist? Never. Jesus cried on the cross “It is Finished” The sacrafice of blood was finished once and for all. He broke bread with disciples in Rememberance of his sacrafice. God created Man. Man cannot create God. Even though he tries to sometimes. Take aimal/human cloning as another example. The Eucharist (history,actions,purpose and symbolism) comes from ancient Egyptian paganism. Look it up for your self. Search it after you read this.
Do I believe that Baptism is necessary for salvation? Definitely not. Not once is it found in scripture that baptism is necessary for the remission of sins. Believers were baptised in the scriptures. First they believed and were saved, then they were Baptised. The thief on the cross was saved and he wasnt baptised. Jesus told him, today you will be with me in Paradise. He wasnt Baptised. Yet he was saved. The book of Acts states that "they believed and were baptised, they believed and were baptised…). Read it. Being Baptised is important. Jesus set the example. But it does not remove sin. Your sin is removed the moment you acknowledge that your a sinner and that Jesus is Lord. Confess it to God and believe it in your heart. Then God comes in and Transforms your life. Halleluija!!!Tis not scriptural SinginBeauty. That Baptism removes sin. And yes Christ is the Head. He is Glory. He Only is Salvation. He is Majestic, glorious, filled with Love and Compassion. The only redeemer. Praise you Jesus. Forever you will be the Lamb on the Throne!!!
And as for works. There is no works for salvation. Absolutely none. Jesus did it on the cross. It is a gift from God. Once saved. It is necessary to work for the king and to see others saved. Thats why James says “faith without works is dead” Hope Ive answered your questions SinginBeauty (Cool name by the way…)
Question: Are you saved? And how do you know? When? Where? And How? Jesus Lives

 

[teachccd]

Singinbeauty, thanks for the response. And I love that scripture. Verse 5 (46:5) Tis beautiful also. “God is in the midst of her, she shall not be moved.” Gods word is precious. Amen. In response to your reply. Do I Love the Lord Jesus Christ? The answer is, more than life! Without him there is nothing. I cannot get enough of him. “Oh taste and see that the Lord is good”, as the psalmst wrote. Oh what joy it is to walk, talk and worship the Risen Saviour every day!!! I could not live without him. He is my life. He is Life. And He’s coming soon!! Halleluija!!
Do I take the Eucharist? Never. Jesus cried on the cross “It is Finished” The sacrafice of blood was finished once and for all. He broke bread with disciples in Rememberance of his sacrafice. God created Man. Man cannot create God. Even though he tries to sometimes. Take aimal/human cloning as another example. The Eucharist (history,actions,purpose and symbolism) comes from ancient Egyptian paganism. Look it up for your self. Search it after you read this.
Do I believe that Baptism is necessary for salvation? Definitely not. Not once is it found in scripture that baptism is necessary for the remission of sins. Believers were baptised in the scriptures. First they believed and were saved, then they were Baptised. The thief on the cross was saved and he wasnt baptised. Jesus told him, today you will be with me in Paradise. He wasnt Baptised. Yet he was saved. The book of Acts states that "they believed and were baptised, they believed and were baptised…). Read it. Being Baptised is important. Jesus set the example. But it does not remove sin. Your sin is removed the moment you acknowledge that your a sinner and that Jesus is Lord. Confess it to God and believe it in your heart. Then God comes in and Transforms your life. Halleluija!!!Tis not scriptural SinginBeauty. That Baptism removes sin. And yes Christ is the Head. He is Glory. He Only is Salvation. He is Majestic, glorious, filled with Love and Compassion. The only redeemer. Praise you Jesus. Forever you will be the Lamb on the Throne!!!
And as for works. There is no works for salvation. Absolutely none. Jesus did it on the cross. It is a gift from God. Once saved. It is necessary to work for the king and to see others saved. Thats why James says “faith without works is dead” Hope Ive answered your questions SinginBeauty (Cool name by the way…)
Question: Are you saved? And how do you know? When? Where? And How? Jesus Lives

And there you have it. Are Catholics Christian?? Protestants say yes within the confines of their beliefs. Case closed…This is teachccd and you directed your post to me. I am a firm believer in the Eucharist as Jesus commanded. “It is finished” would, if taken literally, indicate no need for a resurrection which is the greatest Christian hope. Paganism is fluid and can touch everything. Isn’t the Trinity pagan?? Ask a Jehovah’s Witness, they’ll spin you through that one… Anyway, I am a proud Catholic and you can thank our (yours and mine) Church for your bible…look that up. You got it from us.

 

[JesusIsKing]

Appologies Teachccd, thought Id replied my post to SinginBeauty. Nevertheless. Thanks for your reply.
When Christ said, “It is finished” Do you know what he was talking about. Isaiah 53v5 and 6 (the whole chapter is beautiful)He was stating that the SACRAFICE FOR YOUR AND MY SIN, THE PENALTY, THE DEATH, THE PRICE was PAID. "IT IS FINISHED!!! NO MORE BLOOD SACRAFICES, NO MORE WORKS FOR SALVATION. As in the old Testament It is finished!! GLORY BE TO HIS NAME. No where in scripture does he tell us to repeat this sacrafice. The bread and the wine are symbolic of his body and his blood. DO YE THIS OFTEN IN REMEMBERANCE OF ME. Are you saying that Calvary wasnt enough? Does it half to be repeated and repeated and repeated by Catholics worldwide? Are you saying that the Saviours sacrafice of his life was not enough mankind? Was Gods work for you and me on that old rugged cross not enough for mankind that it must LITERALLY be repeated and repeated and repeated. And when he rose again. He defeated DEATH onto glory! So that we would have eternal life. Hallelujia!!
Did you know that during the time of the reformers and Gods word was getting into circulation again. The Roman Catholic church, bought and burned Bibles.
You see, I would never thank the church for the Bible. Because Its Gods. I thank Him. Its his Word. John 1v1, "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the Word WAS God. Jesus is the word. Its all His. He is the living Word.
May you take some time aside, and study some history books about the early church, pagan rome, papal rome, Paganism, the book of Isaiah and Revelation. Read some Non-catholic literature to get an all round perspective. By all means be a proud Catholic, But above all be a better Believer. Jesus Saves.

 

[Contarini]

He was stating that the SACRAFICE FOR YOUR AND MY SIN, THE PENALTY, THE DEATH, THE PRICE was PAID. "IT IS FINISHED!!! NO MORE BLOOD SACRAFICES, NO MORE WORKS FOR SALVATION.

If you are saying that works are no longer necessary because of Jesus’ sacrifice, then you are saying something never suggested in the NT. The closest you get to it is in Paul, but Paul always balances his affirmations of salvation without works by saying that if you commit certain serious sins you will not share in eternal life. He clearly did not mean that moral effort is no longer necessary.

As in the old Testament It is finished!! GLORY BE TO HIS NAME. No where in scripture does he tell us to repeat this sacrafice.

Straw man. No one is saying that the sacrifice should be repeated. Through the Eucharist we share in the one sacrifice of Christ.

The bread and the wine are symbolic of his body and his blood. DO YE THIS OFTEN IN REMEMBERANCE OF ME.

Nothing about symbolism there!

Did you know that during the time of the reformers and Gods word was getting into circulation again. The Roman Catholic church, bought and burned Bibles.

In some areas, when they considered the translation heretical. But in most parts of Europe there were vernacular Bibles available at the time of the Reformation, and the Catholic Church did nothing to stop this. England was an exception. There were something like 17 versions of the German Bible available before Luther put pen to paper. After the Reformation the policy of limiting vernacular Bibles became more widespread, unfortunately.

You see, I would never thank the church for the Bible. Because Its Gods.

Of course. But it came to us through the Church. How do you know which books are in the New Testament, except because you trust the tradition of the early Church? Or do you just trust Messrs. Zondervan or wherever you buy your Bibles from?

In particular, can you explain to me how you are sure that 2 Peter should be part of the Bible?

I thank Him. Its his Word. John 1v1, "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the Word WAS God. Jesus is the word. Its all His. He is the living Word.

Are you saying that Jesus and the Bible are identical? That the Bible is Jesus?

May you take some time aside, and study some history books about the early church, pagan rome, papal rome, Paganism, the book of Isaiah and Revelation. Read some Non-catholic literature to get an all round perspective.

I study church history for a living. I can assure you that you are the one relying solely on propaganda on your side–not even on good Protestant scholarship for that matter.

What books on the early Church have you read? Have you read anything by Henry Chadwick? W.H.C. Frend? Peter Brown? J.N.D. Kelly? (None of these were/are Roman Catholics, BTW.)

You don’t appear to know much about church history, so why are you exhorting others?

Edwin

 

[teachccd]

Appologies Teachccd, thought Id replied my post to SinginBeauty. Nevertheless. Thanks for your reply.
When Christ said, “It is finished” Do you know what he was talking about. Isaiah 53v5 and 6 (the whole chapter is beautiful)He was stating that the SACRAFICE FOR YOUR AND MY SIN, THE PENALTY, THE DEATH, THE PRICE was PAID. "IT IS FINISHED!!! NO MORE BLOOD SACRAFICES, NO MORE WORKS FOR SALVATION. As in the old Testament It is finished!! GLORY BE TO HIS NAME. No where in scripture does he tell us to repeat this sacrafice. The bread and the wine are symbolic of his body and his blood. DO YE THIS OFTEN IN REMEMBERANCE OF ME. Are you saying that Calvary wasnt enough? Does it half to be repeated and repeated and repeated by Catholics worldwide? Are you saying that the Saviours sacrafice of his life was not enough mankind? Was Gods work for you and me on that old rugged cross not enough for mankind that it must LITERALLY be repeated and repeated and repeated. And when he rose again. He defeated DEATH onto glory! So that we would have eternal life. Hallelujia!!
Did you know that during the time of the reformers and Gods word was getting into circulation again. The Roman Catholic church, bought and burned Bibles.
You see, I would never thank the church for the Bible. Because Its Gods. I thank Him. Its his Word. John 1v1, "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the Word WAS God. Jesus is the word. Its all His. He is the living Word.
May you take some time aside, and study some history books about the early church, pagan rome, papal rome, Paganism, the book of Isaiah and Revelation. Read some Non-catholic literature to get an all round perspective. By all means be a proud Catholic, But above all be a better Believer. Jesus Saves.

A better believer above being a proud Catholic?? It’s all in view now and so I cannot hold you accountable. You speak with ignorance of the Catholic faith and so your fervency is fed with error and that is a shame.

" It is finished" refers to the consummation of the Last Supper when Christ did not drink the fourth cup. The crucifixion was the fourth cup into which Christ renewed the Passover and became the Paschal lamb in fulfillment of the Old Covenant with His people.

The Eucharist is NOT a repeated sacrifice but a perpetuation of that one and only sacrifice on calvary made present to all generations until He comes again.Not only was calvary enough but Jesus left us this precious gift of the Eucharist so that all might be present to that moment. God is not in time and neither is His sacrifice. He is the eternal high priest. In order for His priesthood to be eternal so must His sacrifice. At the Last supper Jesus said, " This is my body". The Apostles recognized that this is the “how” we must eat His flesh that He spoke of a year ago when many left to their former way of living.

I am a fervently strong Catholic precisely because I’ve read a multitude of non- Catholic literature. There are so many holes in protestant theology that it became a sad shame with it’s massive divisions. Even Martin Luther alluded to the mess he started.

So you thank God for the Bible. So do I. BUT… Who specifically acknowledged the 27 books of the New Testament?? This bible fell from the sky??

Yes, I thank you again for bumping up my Catholic faith yet up another notch because when I see the misconceptions and lies taught about us I KNOW that Jesus started a Church and from that Church (the body of believers) came a bible and that Church is ths Catholic Church. Yes , Jesus is the living Word of God and He left a Church with inspired authors who presented the written word of God. These authors were Catholic in their beliefs.

You need the studying, my friend, so why don’t you quit embarrassing yourself and pick up a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church and at the very least educate yourself in what you now erroneously think that we believe. You don’t have to agree with Catholic teachings but at least KNOW what you’re talking about.

One last point. Would you pass out the New World Translation of Holy Scriptures or would you burn it. I’d burn it for the same reasons bibles were burned back then. Please don’t be so misled.

May the grace of our Lord, Jesus Christ, the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you always…teachccd

 

[teachccd]

If you are saying that works are no longer necessary because of Jesus’ sacrifice, then you are saying something never suggested in the NT. The closest you get to it is in Paul, but Paul always balances his affirmations of salvation without works by saying that if you commit certain serious sins you will not share in eternal life. He clearly did not mean that moral effort is no longer necessary.

Straw man. No one is saying that the sacrifice should be repeated. Through the Eucharist we share in the one sacrifice of Christ.

Nothing about symbolism there!

In some areas, when they considered the translation heretical. But in most parts of Europe there were vernacular Bibles available at the time of the Reformation, and the Catholic Church did nothing to stop this. England was an exception. There were something like 17 versions of the German Bible available before Luther put pen to paper. After the Reformation the policy of limiting vernacular Bibles became more widespread, unfortunately.

Of course. But it came to us through the Church. How do you know which books are in the New Testament, except because you trust the tradition of the early Church? Or do you just trust Messrs. Zondervan or wherever you buy your Bibles from?

In particular, can you explain to me how you are sure that 2 Peter should be part of the Bible?

Are you saying that Jesus and the Bible are identical? That the Bible is Jesus?

I study church history for a living. I can assure you that you are the one relying solely on propaganda on your side–not even on good Protestant scholarship for that matter.

What books on the early Church have you read? Have you read anything by Henry Chadwick? W.H.C. Frend? Peter Brown? J.N.D. Kelly? (None of these were/are Roman Catholics, BTW.)

You don’t appear to know much about church history, so why are you exhorting others?

Edwin

Isn’t it amazing?? Absolutely no Church history. Just a Bible. GEESH!!

 

[Light_Seeker]

Thank you TeachCCD and Contarini :tiphat:

Awesome when I see a strong Catholic & strong Episcopalian joining to combat ignorance.

 

[teachccd]

Thank you TeachCCD and Contarini :tiphat:

Awesome when I see a strong Catholic & strong Episcopalian joining to combat ignorance.

And thank you. Ignorance is bliss. We need to keep JesusIsKing in our prayers…teachccd

P.S. I love your signature quote, by the way!!

 

[Singinbeauty]

Do you receive the Eucharist? Do you believe Baptism is necessary for salvation? Do you believe in the Sacraments as true encounters with Christ? Do you believe that it is not enough to just believe but that we MUST DO what Christ commands when we pick up our cross and follow Him. (Works) Do you believe that our souls are regenerated at Baptism and receive Sanctifying grace that cleans our soul and not just "Covers"it? Do you believe in the communion of saints and their intercession for us in obtaining holiness? These are all necessary for us Christians. So yes I believe in the fundamental questions that you ask of me above but your list was incomplete, especially if you refuse the Eucharist which is the source and summit of the Chiristian faith as it is Christ Himself…God Bless and there’s never enough said about Christ and His Church:thumbsup:

Well, then I guess the protestant definition of someone that is ‘saved’ is quite different and more simple thant the catholic one above… So sad. Jesus said believe in me and you will have everlasting life. That is where the “'nuff said” comes from my friend. It makes me really disheartened to know that there are those out there who think they have to work their way into Heaven. Christ did the work! He has died and now has risen to defeat Death. All we must do is reach out and accept the gift that He has given. To think we have to work to gain our spot in Heaven, to me, means we have cheapened His Holy Sacrifice on that cross…

 

[teachccd]

Well, then I guess the protestant definition of someone that is ‘saved’ is quite different and more simple thant the catholic one above… So sad. Jesus said believe in me and you will have everlasting life. That is where the “'nuff said” comes from my friend. It makes me really disheartened to know that there are those out there who think they have to work their way into Heaven. Christ did the work! He has died and now has risen to defeat Death. All we must do is reach out and accept the gift that He has given. To think we have to work to gain our spot in Heaven, to me, means we have cheapened His Holy Sacrifice on that cross…

You are another Christian who is ignorant in the teachings of the Catholic Church. WE DON’T TEACH THAT WORKS GETS YOU TO HEAVEN!! We teach that faith (as a free gift from God through grace) must not just be a said faith. It must be a faith filled with love. Gal. 5:6 If faith must not be dead (see James 2) then it must contain something. If that something is love ( Of these three, faith, hope,and love the greatest of these is love cf.1 Cor 13) then faith filled with love is necessary for salvation. This we call faith and works. Works by themselves without faith do NOTHING.

Please!! If all Jesus wanted us to do is to BELIEVE in Him then why so much scripture. This theology fits in one paragraph. Yes we must believe AND follow Him. If you were on a sinking ship and I was the greatest captain in the world, you could believe that I will save you but unless you grab your life jacket and FOLLOW me you will drown.

Please for your own sake do not embarrass yourself by spreading error concerning the Catholic Church. I would also recommend buying a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I did that with Jehovahs Witness publications so that when I talk to them I am not misrepresenting what they teach. There is no greater way show your point than when you are well versed in theirs. Take heed. Who knows? You might see something you like.