Protestants spend more time in Purgatory than Catholics

[Matariel]

What’s metaron??

Metaron is a former handle I used to use about a year ago when I came to this site. It is still an active account here. It is actually a typo of “Metatron” the highest angel in Heaven, according to Judeo-Christian legend. Similarly, Matariel is the angel of rain in Judeo-Christian legend.

Anyway, thanks for explaining. I particularly appreciated that part about Protestants being good at protesting… I guess that is natural since there is so much protesting in their world… First M Luther protested… then people protested gainst him and then people protested against those who protested against those protesters and… :banghead: uch: :hypno: so on…
I am beginning to understand them more and more… Thanks for helping…

Yes. But we must be compassionate and non-antagonistic with them. My whole family is Protestant, but I’ve convinced some of them of some things like the Real Presence and things like that; however, so far it is futile, as they will not accept Apostolic Succession and Holy Orders, which is essential to the Sacrament.

 

[distracted]

. Similarly, Matariel is the angel of rain in Judeo-Christian legend.

hmm…angel of rain? i think he was given a new job by God… that of being my guardian angel… (in my life, there has been a lot of “rain”…)

Yes. But we must be compassionate and non-antagonistic with them.

i don’t think we should… Then they see us as weak and milktoast… They like to hit us over the head with the bible so i say we hit them over the head with the Church…

My whole family is Protestant, but I’ve convinced some of them of some things like the Real Presence and things like that; however, so far it is futile, as they woll not accept Apostolic Succession and Holy Orders, which is essential to the Sacrament.

yeah, those kinds of peole are why i get discouraged… i know i shouldn’t but i am human…

You know, i just thoght of a way to hit them over the head with the Chruch (as it were)… When i pray the rosary, i almost feel i am in the Real Presecne in the church (and i a probably am somehow )… so we could just pray rosaries over these people…

They’ll never know what hit them…

 

[Matariel]

right-believing…

i don’t know much about Easter Orthodox… except that (i think) they broke from Rome (because they didn’t accept infallability of pope??)… so i would never even read something (on that subject) written by one of them… (sound snobbish and narrow minded, but oh well… i have my reasons…)…

The Eastern Orthodox broke with See of St. Peter because they wanted Constantinople to be a patriarchate, and eventually wanted it to rival the Pope himself. Although most people date the schism in the 1000’s, it was actually on and off until the 1400’s. It was made final in 1500’s. Photius was a main player in this; he is venerated as a saint in Orthodoxy, and condemned as a heretic in Catholicism. Of course, other contributing factors were theological emphases in the West were different in the East, the misunderstanding of the nature of the Filioque Clause in the Nicene Creed (A total non-issue, as it was a linguistic misunderstanding) and the extent of Petrine Authority of the Pope, and also the autonomy of the other Patriarchs. However, the Orhodox Church is a true Church, in the sense that it has valid Apostolic Succession, Sacraments, and Apostolic Tradition. The Anglican Church was also held in similar regard until the Edwardine Ordinals supposedly corrupted the ordinations, thus destroying apostolic continuity in the Anglican Church. However, the Anglican Church had massive re-ordinations using valid apostolic lines from the Old and Independent Catholic lines in the 1930’s, thus revalidating their apostolicity. Unfortunately, liberal diocese in the Anglican Communion ordain women, which destroys apostolic orders. But, traditional Anglican diocese have remained fully apostolic and sacramental, as have our closest friends, the Orthodox.

Oops… I digressed.

 

[Matariel]

hmm…angel of rain? i think he was given a new job by God… that of being my guardian angel… (in my life, there has been a lot of “rain”…) i don’t think we should… Then they see us as weak and milktoast… They like to hit us over the head with the bible so i say we hit them over the head with the Church…

I think it’s spelled “milquetoast” and, charity goes a long way. If we make them angry, they’ll storm off. Remember, the saints were always charitable towards heretics, and were only forceful when it was absolutely necessary. And yes, they like to hit us over the head with their truncated version of the Bible, but remember-- we gave them the Bible . We have the Bible, the Church, and God on our side. All they have is private interpretation.

yeah, those kinds of peole are why i get discouraged… i know i shouldn’t but i am human…

You know, i just thoght of a way to hit them over the head with the Chruch (as it were)… When i pray the rosary, i almost feel i am in the Real Presecne in the church (and i a probably am somehow )… so we could just pray rosaries over these people…

An excellent thought. I admit, I at times have been way to slack on my extracurricular devotion, but last night I prayed the rosary, and intend to do so tonight. When I first begin praying, I always try to visualize the people/things I am praying for as my prayer intentions, and this includes a lot of my family and my best friend, who, although looks kindly at the Church and the Pope, nevertheless continues to live in grave sin. I just don’t want anyone to go to Hell.

They’ll never know what hit them…

God says that we can “come boldly to the throne of mercy to obtain grace…”

We can only hope for the best. God will prevail.

 

[jrssls]

so she is likely buring in Hell as we speak??

Yes.

 

[SIA]

i wish i could remember where i heard that, but it makes sense because Protestants, generally speaking (especially those who live by OSAS) make a lot of “excuses” for their sins and bad behavior… They think they don’t have to “pay” for then because Jesus paid the price… What they don’t realize is that sin causes an ugly stain on the soul that will keep the soul from entrance into Heaven - until it is wiped away… (by the application of Christ’s Blood atonement)… on this earth and/or in Purgatory…

Revelation says that “no unclean thing will enter Heaven” (21:27)…

(1 Cor 3:13, St. Matthew 18:23, St. Matthew 12:32, etc…)

They don’t seem to believe that what Christ did on Calvary actually has to be APPLIED…

It is like being given a nutritious, delicious meal… and not making a move to eat it because you think… “I don’t need to… i will remain healthy indefinitely anyway…”

No such place as pugatory. Real faith in Christ would reveal this to you.

 

[jrssls]

Why don’t you just respond either to the direct questions or to the scripture that has been used to illustrate the Catholic position?

Your response here is typical. Non-Catholics don’t seem to be able to answer the questions put to them nor do they seem to be able to point directly to scripture that supports what they believe, especially when that belief is contrary to the Catholic position. So, by default, they obscure and write something like you wrote here.

It’s very frustrating. All the while you claim that your every belief is found in the Bible. Well, where is it?

Can you even attempt to answer just one of my questions? Can you defend your belief that there is no such state as purgatory, with a verse or two to back you up?

Can you point to one of the verses you’ve been shown which support a belief in a purging process before entrance is granted to heaven and show us specifically how we have it wrong?

Finally, and this is my main question for non-catholics, to which there doesn’t seem to be an answer, why are you willing to settle for a system of faith which raises so many questions for which there are seemingly no answers?

I already have quoted scriptures, I don’t need to type everything out for you. See, that’s your problem. You don’t know how to find the answer in the scriptures. Meaning, in the Holy Bible. Why don’t you do the studying for yourself, it may benefit you.
My faith is in Jesus Christ. I read and study the Word of God that is in the Bible. Why don’t you just read all my replies to other posts, it may answer your question. You’re just steaming mad that I don’t believe in a false doctrine, which is the catholic church.

 

[SIA]

I already have quoted scriptures, I don’t need to type everything out for you. See, that’s your problem. You don’t know how to find the answer in the scriptures. Meaning, in the Holy Bible. Why don’t you do the studying for yourself, it may benefit you.
My faith is in Jesus Christ. I read and study the Word of God that is in the Bible. Why don’t you just read all my replies to other posts, it may answer your question. You’re just steaming mad that I don’t believe in a false doctrine, which is the catholic church.

You are absolutley right about finding the real truth in the Scriptures. If it doesn’t parallel with Scripture then it is false. Period. Dogma, Doctrine or none of the above!

 

[AlegreFe]

AgegreFe,

Perhaps it would help you in your particular anality (and the rest of us too) if you could tell us how you did what you did to the post that retented you. I for one don’t know how to put a quote within a quote. Please educate me (us?)

You mean my anal-retentiveness? No such word as “anality.” I sent you a PM on this.

 

[AlegreFe]

Well, Princess Di was also involved in witchcraft. She would read upon her horoscopes daily and have someone tell her about her future. It’s all the same in the form of witchcraft.

So what are you saying by this? I hope you are not saying that Princess Diana is in hell right now. Because if you are you have no proof of that. Just because she did all that stuff does not give us the right to say where she is. We did not know her heart. Only God knows. You know that saying “judge not, lest ye be judged?” Well it also means “do not ‘send anyone to hell’ just because you think they are there, or else you could end up there yourself.” Or in other words, “condemn not, lest ye be condemned.”

Don’t you know we have a merciful God? It has been said that Jesus appears to a soul, once passed away, and grants His mercy to them three times. Jesus gives us a chance right before and right after our passing. That is how merciful Jesus is to us.

The time of mercy is NOW. The tribulation is going on right now. So once this time of mercy is over, the end will be here when we will see the Just Judge in God. That is why we could have our Purgatory right here and right now. That is why God invented time for us. God is outside of time, but He is so merciful that He created time for us. Use that time wisely and you will see God in the end. Use that time with folly and there is a greater chance for you to go where you will never see God. But even then Jesus will still give you a chance to turn to Him so that you can be with God forever. Just don’t get too cocky with God. There is no such thing as OSAS. God doesn’t like someone who is too cocky or arrogant. So if you believe in Sola Fide or OSAS, you best think again.

Purgatory is God’s mercy for us. But that doesn’t mean we can’t have our Purgatory right here. That in itself shows us God’s mercy; the fact that we can have Purgatory right here while we still live & breathe on this earth.

 

[brkn1]

she’s probably in Purgatory.

John Lennon was never one to look too “Christian” but some seer in … some country by Croatia (?) says he is now in Heaven (after spending time in Purg). She says the same about other famous people… She gets visited by the souls in Purgatory and they tel her such things…

Yeah, i was skeptical at first also… but sh is such an orthodox Christian that i felt i could trust her…

So a “seer” might be a trustworthy source to find out about “purgatory” and the fate of dead souls?

How can anyone that has dealings with “a familiar spirit” be considered an “orthodox Christian”? Such persons are condemned in Scripture. “For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord: and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee.” (Deut. 18:12)

 

[nice2000]

I have this really neat book that explains Purgatory in great detail.
It’s no bigger then the size of my hand (69 pages). This is one of my favorite books that I carry in my purse to read every now and then. The book costs only $1.25.

TITLE: The Secrets of Purgatory (Reminiscences of a Soul in Purgatory)

AUTHOR’s name is UNKNOWN

The unknown name of the young woman that wrote the “Secrets of Purgatory” lived in the seclusion of the Alps in 1931. From the way she writes she has seen and been to Purgatory and has felt all the emotions that come out of Purgatory. She explains it in detail in this book.

By Rev. Bernard Doyle, S.V.D.

There are two small books compiled together as one in the book.

Dies-Irae - a warning from the dead to the living

by Berthold Fries, S.V.D. 1958

 

[jrssls]

So what are you saying by this? I hope you are not saying that Princess Diana is in hell right now. Because if you are you have no proof of that. Just because she did all that stuff does not give us the right to say where she is. We did not know her heart. Only God knows. You know that saying “judge not, lest ye be judged?” Well it also means “do not ‘send anyone to hell’ just because you think they are there, or else you could end up there yourself.” Or in other words, “condemn not, lest ye be condemned.”

Don’t you know we have a merciful God? It has been said that Jesus appears to a soul, once passed away, and grants His mercy to them three times. Jesus gives us a chance right before and right after our passing. That is how merciful Jesus is to us.

The time of mercy is NOW. The tribulation is going on right now. So once this time of mercy is over, the end will be here when we will see the Just Judge in God. That is why we could have our Purgatory right here and right now. That is why God invented time for us. God is outside of time, but He is so merciful that He created time for us. Use that time wisely and you will see God in the end. Use that time with folly and there is a greater chance for you to go where you will never see God. But even then Jesus will still give you a chance to turn to Him so that you can be with God forever. Just don’t get too cocky with God. There is no such thing as OSAS. God doesn’t like someone who is too cocky or arrogant. So if you believe in Sola Fide or OSAS, you best think again.

Purgatory is God’s mercy for us. But that doesn’t mean we can’t have our Purgatory right here. That in itself shows us God’s mercy; the fact that we can have Purgatory right here while we still live & breathe on this earth.

Let’s see, she was out with Dodi late at night coming from their Hotel, not married, so they must have been staying the night there. You are to be married if you are sleeping together. God says in I Thessalonians 4:3 - For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication. I Corinthians 6:9 - states, Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
Many other scriptures also talk about fornication. About witchcraft, the Lord detests anything that comes from Satan - 2 Chronicles 33:6 - He sacrificed his sons in the fire in the Valley of Ben Hinnom, practiced sorcery, divination and witchcraft, and consulted mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the eyes of the LORD, provoking him to anger. Deuteronomy 18:10-13 - Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. You must be blameless before the LORD your God.
Jesus gives you that option to come to Him while you’re alive on earth, not after you’ve died to make the choice to come and receive Him. Once you die, it’s heaven or hell, nothing in-between.
Believe me, if tribulation was here, I would not be here right now. The rapture of the church has to go first and then tribulation.
This is what I believe, once you are ready to make a change in your life and live for Christ. You ask Him for forgiveness, believe that he died on the cross for your sins and you learn every day how to live right for Him. You get into the Word and study it every day and have a prayerful life. You learn what He wants for your life when you study His word. Believe me, there’s no purgatory, that’s why you better live your life right while you’re alive.

 

[jrssls]

So a “seer” might be a trustworthy source to find out about “purgatory” and the fate of dead souls?

How can anyone that has dealings with “a familiar spirit” be considered an “orthodox Christian”? Such persons are condemned in Scripture. “For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord: and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee.” (Deut. 18:12)

A familiar spirit is demonic. I wouldn’t want any part of that.

 

[jrssls]

Metaron is a former handle I used to use about a year ago when I came to this site. It is still an active account here. It is actually a typo of “Metatron” the highest angel in Heaven, according to Judeo-Christian legend. Similarly, Matariel is the angel of rain in Judeo-Christian legend.

Yes. But we must be compassionate and non-antagonistic with them. My whole family is Protestant, but I’ve convinced some of them of some things like the Real Presence and things like that; however, so far it is futile, as they woll not accept Apostolic Succession and Holy Orders, which is essential to the Sacrament.

That’s because your family is smart.

 

[valient_Lucy]

It depends on the Protestant and the Catholic.

 

[MIZER]

Jrssls posted:

That’s because your family is smart.

In your attempts to insult the members of this board you merely succeed in showing the weakness of your own mind.

It’s just sad, really.

 

[elvisman]

You are absolutley right about finding the real truth in the Scriptures. If it doesn’t parallel with Scripture then it is false. Period. Dogma, Doctrine or none of the above!

I TOTALLY agree with you. That’s why all Catholic doctines are rooted in Scripture.

That being said, can you tell me where in scripture I am supposed to accept Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior in order to be born again? Because, in MY bible, it says you must be baptized . . .

 

[SIA]

I TOTALLY agree with you. That’s why all Catholic doctines are rooted in Scripture.

That being said, can you tell me where in scripture I am supposed to accept Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior in order to be born again? Because, in MY bible, it says you must be baptized . . .

Last time i checked, Jesus said in Scripture, “I am the way the truth and the life and no one comes to the father except through me”. Scripture also tells us that Jesus died once for all sin. Paul also tells us in Scripture that we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. There are tons and tons more but i would accept Jesus as everything in my life on those alone.

Secondly, I’m afraid that Catholic doctrine by and large is NOT based upon Scripture but on the Magisterium. Scripture doesn’t tell us that there is a purgatory or that Mary was taken into Heaven body and soul. The Catholic chruch however doesn’t care that these are not Biblical because they hold the Magisterium in the same authority as the Bible (so they say). To the RCC truth can be spoken by a pope even if nobody in the world knew that what he speaks maybe right now was never known to be truth before. Pretty ridiculous and absolutely NOT Scriptural.

 

[jrssls]

I TOTALLY agree with you. That’s why all Catholic doctines are rooted in Scripture.

That being said, can you tell me where in scripture I am supposed to accept Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior in order to be born again? Because, in MY bible, it says you must be baptized . . .

Last time i checked, Jesus said in Scripture, “I am the way the truth and the life and no one comes to the father except through me”. Scripture also tells us that Jesus died once for all sin. Paul also tells us in Scripture that we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. There are tons and tons more but i would accept Jesus as everything in my life on those alone.

Secondly, I’m afraid that Catholic doctrine by and large is NOT based upon Scripture but on the Magisterium. Scripture doesn’t tell us that there is a purgatory or that Mary was taken into Heaven body and soul. The Catholic chruch however doesn’t care that these are not Biblical because they hold the Magisterium in the same authority as the Bible (so they say). To the RCC truth can be spoken by a pope even if nobody in the world knew that what he speaks maybe right now was never known to be truth before. Pretty ridiculous and absolutely NOT Scriptural.

I absolutely agree with you SIA. Elvisman here is your scripture, John 3:3 says - Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” These are words written in red. John 3:16-18 also says, For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.