Protestants who believe Mary, the Mother of God sinned

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As the Angel Gabriel called Mary, full of grace…he is revealing God’s favor on her…and her nature, different from ours…Angel Gabriel also pointed to the shepherds to note the Infant wrapped in swaddling clothes and placed in a manger…the star would have been sufficient, I would think.

Talking about Mary is not the same as witnessing people’s devotion.

My daughter married an evangelical Christian and his mother goes to Four Square Gospel. She cringed when she saw my Mary statue in my house and said she did not believe in man made ideas…

I invited her to our Mother Mary’s Flower Garden luncheon for the mothers and daughters. We all came in flower dresses. All the tables had a theme or title of Mary…Full of Grace, Seat of Wisdom, with beautiful settings from the mothers’ homes, one was called ‘Mary’s Loving Heart’, ‘Mary of the Kitchen’, and many other tables. Each May the gathering grows.

They pulled this large statue of Mary up to the center of the podium and we had a flower girl procession and placed the crown of flowers on Mary’s head…our emcee explained the Catholics’ relationship to Mary. And then we had a talk by a mother who had a deformed baby and was told to abort and the baby had only a 3% chance of living. She mentioned how she had great devotion to the Bible and so did her friend, and they could tell when other Christians would tell her to abort, and said they really didn’t know the Bible. Then she told us the baby was deformed and the two life threatening operations that followed. The whole family suffered. At the end her 18 year old son came up and he is now going to college and very normal!

At the end, my sister in Christ hugged me and said everything was now OK and she understands now how we love Mary, we ask her to pray for us and our intentions, and honor her as Christ’s mother. It was all such a beautiful day and I remember it very well.

I just wish I could explain more my own…just that at Christmas with Mary, she helps us bear Jesus in a new way…and is our companion, who makes the cross light, and shares with us her joy, and shows us the path of humility.
 
KathleenGee said:
As the Angel Gabriel called Mary, full of grace…he is revealing God’s favor on her…and her nature, different from ours…Angel Gabriel also pointed to the shepherds to note the Infant wrapped in swaddling clothes and placed in a manger…the star would have been sufficient, I would think.
Talking about Mary is not the same as witnessing people’s devotion.
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Justy90 said:
here’s your answer, Nobody.
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Wrong:

Adam and Eve! Jesus! Those three are proven 100% in the scripture. Therefore, how is it so hard to think that perhaps God is capable of making people without sin?
 
adstrinity said:
Do you believe it was possible for Her, and did She infact, sin, while pregnant with Jesus?
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To say Protestants believe… would cover a wide circle of people.
Most non-Catholic Churches teach very little about Mary except to teach she was the Mother of Jesus.
Lu.1:26–38,48 gives a wonderful story of this Blessed Lady. Please read this.
Think, she is the Mother of God, Jesus Christ our Savior. this is a whole other discussion. God robed in flesh.

God bless,
bluelake
 
very sad to see response to our Mother Mary luncheon…yes she is the Mother of Wisdom, the Seat of Wisdom Who is Christ Himself!!

There is so little people here understand…what you look at is an image created by your Protestant fathers…it is surface and not the reality in which we honor her…

She is not divine…she is creature made without sin…and,

I am so thankful for the grace to know her presence, her gift of self to the Church, the efficacy of her prayers for me…thank you Lord, for your mother, and giving her to us as our mother…

I pray that all the divisions wrought by the evil one be subsided and that it will not come through chastisement and destruction, but a yielding of grace …amen.
 
KathleenGee said:
As the Angel Gabriel called Mary, full of grace…he is revealing God’s favor on her…and her nature, different from ours…Angel Gabriel also pointed to the shepherds to note the Infant wrapped in swaddling clothes and placed in a manger…the star would have been sufficient, I would think.

Talking about Mary is not the same as witnessing people’s devotion.

My daughter married an evangelical Christian and his mother goes to Four Square Gospel. She cringed when she saw my Mary statue in my house and said she did not believe in man made ideas…

I invited her to our Mother Mary’s Flower Garden luncheon for the mothers and daughters. We all came in flower dresses. All the tables had a theme or title of Mary…Full of Grace, Seat of Wisdom, with beautiful settings from the mothers’ homes, one was called ‘Mary’s Loving Heart’, ‘Mary of the Kitchen’, and many other tables. Each May the gathering grows.

They pulled this large statue of Mary up to the center of the podium and we had a flower girl procession and placed the crown of flowers on Mary’s head…our emcee explained the Catholics’ relationship to Mary. And then we had a talk by a mother who had a deformed baby and was told to abort and the baby had only a 3% chance of living. She mentioned how she had great devotion to the Bible and so did her friend, and they could tell when other Christians would tell her to abort, and said they really didn’t know the Bible. Then she told us the baby was deformed and the two life threatening operations that followed. The whole family suffered. At the end her 18 year old son came up and he is now going to college and very normal!

At the end, my sister in Christ hugged me and said everything was now OK and she understands now how we love Mary, we ask her to pray for us and our intentions, and honor her as Christ’s mother. It was all such a beautiful day and I remember it very well.

I just wish I could explain more my own…just that at Christmas with Mary, she helps us bear Jesus in a new way…and is our companion, who makes the cross light, and shares with us her joy, and shows us the path of humility.
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Kathleen,
Thank you for the wonderful story. 🙂
Every tme I read this,(Lu.1:26-38 I’m always filled with the wonder of this blessing that the Lord gave to Mary, she was chosen to give birth to the Son of the Most High. that is so special and wonderful.
I often wonder what Mary thought at that moment.

God bless,
bluelake
 
Teneas said:
Wrong:

Adam and Eve! Jesus! Those three are proven 100% in the scripture. Therefore, how is it so hard to think that perhaps God is capable of making people without sin?
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Seeing that Jesus wasn’t made, you are wrong. BTW, unless you forgot, Jesus is the only One to remain sinless. All the rest that exit the women’s wombs are sinful, by original and by commission (with the possible exception of babies that die before commiting sins).​

Oh yes, while Jesus wasn’t made sinless, He was made to be sin for us AND all who have been cleansed by the Blood of the Lamb have been made sinless by Jesus.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

1Peter 2:24 who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness–by whose stripes you were healed.

1John 3:5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.

2Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Romans 5:19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.​

Philippians 3:9 ¶ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;
 
bluelake said:
Kathleen,
Thank you for the wonderful story. 🙂
Every tme I read this,(Lu.1:26-38 I’m always filled with the wonder of this blessing that the Lord gave to Mary, she was chosen to give birth to the Son of the Most High. that is so special and wonderful.
I often wonder what Mary thought at that moment.

God bless,
bluelake
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Me too.🙂
 
I am of the opinion that Gen 3:15, when thought about in conjunction with the nature of God, should help all see God’s answer. When God told the serpant, " I will put enmity between you and the Woman, between your seed and Hers", that is an important revelation. Now consider that God is outside of time and has only one, infinite, eternal, always in the present tense, thought or Word (Jesus). That makes God really, always saying in the present perfect tense, “I am putting enmity between you and the woman”. God’s word is that He is always putting enmity between Mary and the devil, as a special gift. Does it notfollow then that Mary, by this special favor from God (because of Her Son’s saving death) never sinned by commission or omission? Think of the wisdom and grace and knowledge a person could have if they never missed a chance at earning grace or knowledge of God.
Does anyone want to argue that God does not have one, infinite, eternal, always in the present tense, thought? How could God be All-Knowing if He was not thinking about everything all at once? How could He be All-Powerful if that was beyond His ability?
 
Douglas_Kraeger said:
That makes God really, always saying in the present perfect tense, “I am putting enmity between you and the woman”. God’s word is that He is always putting enmity between Mary and the devil, as a special gift. **Does it notfollow **then that Mary, by this special favor from God (because of Her Son’s saving death) never sinned by commission or omission?
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No it doesn’t follow, IMO.
 
Dokimas said:

Seeing that Jesus wasn’t made, you are wrong. BTW, unless you forgot, Jesus is the only One to remain sinless. All the rest that exit the women’s wombs are sinful, by original and by commission (with the possible exception of babies that die before commiting sins).​

Oh yes, while Jesus wasn’t made sinless, He was made to be sin for us AND all who have been cleansed by the Blood of the Lamb have been made sinless by Jesus.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

1Peter 2:24 who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness–by whose stripes you were healed.

1John 3:5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.

2Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Romans 5:19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.​

Philippians 3:9 ¶ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;
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You got my point, but decided to continue on with facts that the rest of us recognize. My point was simply that Jesus was not the only sinless one put on earth.

And…Jesus was made human by the Holy Spirit and Mary, so I believe the word made surely applies.

Good scripture by the way. Nice to see you are getting in the book.
 
Teneas said:
You got my point, but decided to continue on with facts that the rest of us recognize. My point was simply that Jesus was not the only sinless one put on earth.

And…Jesus was made human by the Holy Spirit and Mary, so I believe the word made surely applies.

Good scripture by the way. Nice to see you are getting in the book.
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You loose me if you apply your logic to Mary. There are too many verses that would indicate after Adam and Eve, Jesus was the only sinless One.
 
Mary’s womb was sinless…Jesus could not be nurtured by sin.

It is the tradition of the Church that Mary was conceived without sin. I have been on CAF only for so long and we, including myself, get on the defensive too quickly to prove we do follow the Bible.

But again, it is the Living Tradition of the Holy Spirit through the Church and its people—not just administrators and united with Sacred Scripture–that we have our beliefs…

We do not believe in the bible standing alone…You then turn it into a book…that is used for divisions and self-righteousness…

About Mary being the enemy of Satan who will crush his head with her heel–the lowly Christians who follow Jesus carrying their cross-- that is the Hebrew translation if I am correct…

I have another story to share about Mary…
 
I had a chance to go to college, coming from the inner city. When I saw the grace that it was and gave me self-confidence, I got on my knees and thanked God and ‘wanted to pay Him back for this grace’…and I saw African women with their babies standing in the rain and mud who needed to be educated by me…

I forgot about it…but in my freshman year I asked Christ how to follow Him …and it was to go there…and I did not want to go, so I ran away from God. A professor said I reminded him of being chased by the Hound of Heaven.

I dropped out of college my senior year, right before my student teaching and my parents were so disappointed and my family thought I had some problem. The Lord led me back to where I was born and to a certain parish that ended up sponsoring me and I did go to Africa and I did teach and develop those women in the rain and mud…we had floods that year…but it was used so that my mission would be home. Big circle.

But before I left, my friends and I finished our college graduation and we went to Hawaii. One day I left my group, in a daze, and went out on a mattress…we were at Honokeana Cove in Maui. I went out on the water looking at the fish…and when I finally looked up, I saw the ocean current in front of me and the wind was blowing me out to sea. I was not a strong swimmer at all…I debated what to do and then that very moment, I felt two hands on one side of the mattress and I fell in…but instead of going down 30 feet, underneath me was coral, about 4 feet under. I went up and down, and if you saw me from a distance, yo would think I was walking on water…I came back to my room and my friends were in shock…I was really in shock…and then I felt pain coming from my heel…I looked at the inside heel of my foot and saw the scratched face of Satan…it really scared me, like I was marked.

Anyway, overseas I worked with Latin European Catholics with the Africans, and I saw such wholesomeness not found here in the USA. They related to each other as family…at Mass they would embellish everything with plants or simple artifacts, but artists as they are, it all looked beautiful to me…everything having meaning of Jesus and our communion with Him and with the saints who have gone before us…

And I came to Mary on Christmas Eve, 1974…I always was drawn to St. Francis of Assisi, and in fact the people with me were Capuchins, a branch of the Franciscans who serve the poorest people…but I wrote about my experience of Mary—very much in the background…and the way the Latins relate to her, they draw more on her presence and attendance to us every day, waiting to help us, but never wanting to draw attention to herself for her seek, but always for Jesus.

I came home and still wanted to draw more on her presence but could not… Also I was a little confused theologically having been exposed to liberation theology. Finally, when the Holy Father was shot in May of 1982, I remember the power of the rosary. I got down on my knees and prayed for him and with the recitation of one rosary with Mary, my theological confusion totally ceased, and with her I felt so much closer to the truth of Jesus Christ…but so connected now with every day life having meaning and purpose, especially mine now as a housewife in the time of women in their careers and making money and having so many titles and accomplishments.

I came to Mary and was consecrated to her on August 22 in 1989, and that year that date was not only Mary Queen of Heaven and Earth, but also the Immaculate Heart of Mary – the only safe place for all human beings on the planet…where she nurtures and loves you and protects you in Jesus Christ, she closer to Him than any other person…

Mary is all beautiful…we cannot imagine how beautiful a person can look when they are sinless…and some day when we are purged of all desire to sin…we will all be so beautiful…

Later, I had the trial of my faith in a place not my home. It was terrible and I almost lost my faith… a year later I recalled that experience…it was like the devil himself came to destroy my faith in Jesus, my only treasure…and when I recalled it I fell down only one step and broke my foot—and I am not sure if it was the one marked by the face of Satan.

Now I am becoming restored after 14 years of hidden life…

A priest told me one time the strongest Catholics are those who are consecrated to Mary…catholic being universal Christian…

It was Mary with the Holy Spirit who gave human form to Jesus.

It is Mary who makes the strongest Christians!
 
KathleenGee said:
Mary’s womb was sinless (Since when is any womb sinful?)…Jesus could not be nurtured by sin (Was Jesus too weak in His resolve to protect Himself from the sin of others?).

It is the tradition of the Church that Mary was conceived without sin. I have been on CAF only for so long and we, including myself, get on the defensive too quickly to prove we do follow the Bible.

But again, it is the Living Tradition of the Holy Spirit through the Church and its people—not just administrators and united with Sacred Scripture–that we have our beliefs…

We do not believe in the bible standing alone…You then turn it into a book…that is used for divisions and self-righteousness… Do you believe a belief should contradict the Bible?

About Mary being the enemy of Satan who will crush his head with her heel–the lowly Christians who follow Jesus carrying their cross-- that is the Hebrew translation if I am correct…

I have another story to share about Mary…
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Kath, you scare me with your talk of coming to Mary (where’s that in the Bible) making you a stronger Christian.
 
Justy90 said:
None of it is Scriptural so they can’t back it up other than saying that it comes from the magisterium which is also not Scriptural. The Mary of the Bible is not the Mary of Catholic theology. Big problem.🙂
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You state “the magisterium which is also not Scriptural”, prove it!!!
 
KathleenGee said:
very sad to see response to our Mother Mary luncheon…yes she is the Mother of Wisdom, the Seat of Wisdom Who is Christ Himself!!

There is so little people here understand…what you look at is an image created by your Protestant fathers…it is surface and not the reality in which we honor her…

She is not divine…she is creature made without sin…and,

I am so thankful for the grace to know her presence, her gift of self to the Church, the efficacy of her prayers for me…thank you Lord, for your mother, and giving her to us as our mother…

I pray that all the divisions wrought by the evil one be subsided and that it will not come through chastisement and destruction, but a yielding of grace …amen.
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Hi Kathleen, see my post #96. It goes to the point of what I was asserting there. “SOME” of the “Christians” here are to the point now of accusing Catholics of blasphemy and with insinuations of false beliefs. They do not want to understand what and why Catholic believe the way we do. They just want to tell Catholics that we are wrong and they use their preconceived truths of Sacred Scripture to validate their point of view. Some even seem to display a complete lack of respect for the Blessed Mother or those who hold a venerated view of Her.
 
It is our flesh that leads us to sin…remember what Paul said, the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak…

Mary did not have ‘weak’ flesh to pass on to Jesus…
 
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