Z
zgraf
Guest
Thanks for posting. Here’s another “picture slideshow” video some folks might like, with biblical references to Mary:
youtube.com/watch?v=GNDTluQNlcc
Protestants, who have been around awhile, question about the Virgin Mary
- Status
youtube.com/watch?v=GNDTluQNlcc
J
JPeter
Guest
I believe there are other issues that could be raised as to this doctrine being dogmatic but they are topics for a different post. I believe it could be said that the Immaculate conception is consonant with scripture and the early councils of the Church. I believe the Holy Spirit comes to the universal Catholic Church as a whole and not exclusively to the successor of St. Peter. I reject the Popes authority to define dogma. I believe we need to have an Ecumenical council to define what is meant by Mary being kept from sin. It also goes to point that many of the early fathers of the Church did not understand original Sin as St. Augustine did. The way the immaculate conception is being defined is not consistent with some of the older traditions surrounding this belief and scripture is not that clear on it. It is safe to say that this doctrine has nothing to do with salvation.
P
pablope
Guest
Thanks, Anna…looks live you opened the door ajar by your asking for an intercession…I would now, you just need to open the door little by little…
God bles…
A
Anna_Scott
Guest
Baby steps.Thanks, Anna…looks live you opened the door ajar by your asking for an intercession…I would now, you just need to open the door little by little…
God bles…
Anna
P
Publisher
Guest
From being on this fourm I understand now what Catholics to believe is Mary’s role…I understand better now why Catholics beleive the things they believe about Mary.
My opinion of Mary has stayed the same…my understanding of Catholic belief concerning Mary has grown.
A
adrift
Guest
I
Perhaps they did search the temple first with a great crown they might have missed Jesus.
Jesus wondered that too.
They were traveling by caravan. Men and women did not travel together. Men were to themselves and women traveled with other women and young children. My understanding is that when they went to Jeruselem that there would have been something like the bar mitzvah. That is a ceremony that would have declared Jesus a man and no longer a child. Going back Joseph would not have missed Him among the men as he wouldn’t have been use to Jesus traveling with the men. Mary would have assumed that Jesus was with the men. It is only when they stopped for the night that they realized their mistake.
Perhaps they did search the temple first with a great crown they might have missed Jesus.
Jesus wondered that too.
Dismissive? No only telling Mary that His time had not come. After all, He did perform a miracle for her. That isn’t dismissive to me.
I would not say Jesus was dismissive. What was His point? Jesus wanted to point out that natural kinship was not important but one who does His Father’s will was His family. Did Jesus say that Mary did not do His will? Of course not, she is the best example of one who does His will. Because He took an opportunity to point this out does not mean that Jesus was dismissive of His Mother. To have done so would have been a breaking of the Honoring His mother. Jesus would never do that.
R
Roy5
Guest
adrift. Fine. Stock answers re Mary. They aren’t all that convincing. Sorry. I honor Mary, of course, as the mother of Jesus. But what has concerned me over the years is the way that so many treat her as a co-redeemer, rivaling Jesus when it comes to devotion. The rosary, for example. How many ‘Hail Marys’ and how many "Our Fathers’, the words of Christ?
But if venerating Mary and that believing she is the major intermediary between Christ and Christians gives comfort, go for it. No damage done. Just that I don’t find backing for it in scripture or in the earliest-known history of the Church. I especially view as it amazing that in everything they wrote none of the New Testament epistles to early Christians even mentions her. I also think of the story of Adam and Eve as a parable, certainly not actual history. So, when much if made of Mary as the second Eve etc - well, that’s also a problem if Eve was not an historical figure.
Yet, God bless everybody, of every creed, color, culture and country. Christ surely would want us to respect one another as well as all of the different faiths that encourage worship of God.
But if venerating Mary and that believing she is the major intermediary between Christ and Christians gives comfort, go for it. No damage done. Just that I don’t find backing for it in scripture or in the earliest-known history of the Church. I especially view as it amazing that in everything they wrote none of the New Testament epistles to early Christians even mentions her. I also think of the story of Adam and Eve as a parable, certainly not actual history. So, when much if made of Mary as the second Eve etc - well, that’s also a problem if Eve was not an historical figure.
Yet, God bless everybody, of every creed, color, culture and country. Christ surely would want us to respect one another as well as all of the different faiths that encourage worship of God.
A
adrift
Guest
I wasn’t trying to convince you. You asked how could they go a day without realizing that Jesus wasn’t with them. I provided the custom . You can believe that it was or it wasn’t. You didn’t seem to know about it.
The rosary is said meditating on scripture. The Joyful centers on Jesus’ childhood. The Luminous on Jesus’ mission. The Sorrowful on Jesus passion and death. The Glorious on Jesus resurection. Only two decade directly on Mary the Assumption and the Crowning. Even those are centered on Jesus. What kind of son would Jesus be if he didn’t honor is Mother.
It makes a great problem if there was no Adam as Jesus is the second Adam. It makes Jesus crucifixtion pointless as well. You forget that Luke and Matthew do mention her. John does not mention her by name. John is very interesting because he calls her woman which conects her directly to Eve. Oh that’s right you don’t believe she existed. But John did that is why he made the connection. The Gospel covers eveything about Mary it didn’t need to be restated in the others parts of Scripture.
H
hawkeye125646
Guest
**Mary is Ever Virgin
Exodus 13:2 Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, [both] of man and of beast: it [is] mine. Exodus 13:12 That thou shalt set apart unto the LORD all that openeth the matrix, and every firstling that cometh of a beast which thou hast; the males [shall be] the LORD’S. Jesus is sometimes referred to as the “first-born” son of Mary. But “first-born” is a common Jewish expression meaning the first child to open the womb. It has nothing to do the mother having future children.**
Exodus 34:20 But the firstling of an *** thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem [him] not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty. under the Mosaic law, the “first-born” son had to be sanctified. “First-born” status does not require a “second” born.
Ezek. 44:1 Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it [was] shut. 2 Then said the LORD unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut. Ezekiel prophesies that no man shall pass through the gate by which the Lord entered the world. This is a prophecy of Mary’s perpetual virginity. Mary remained a virgin before, during and after the birth of Jesus.
Matt. 10:3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James [the son] of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
James is also called the son of “Alpheus.” This does not disprove that James is the son of Clopas. The name Alpheus may be Aramaic for Clopas, or James took a Greek name like Saul (Paul), or Mary remarried a man named Alpheus.
Matt. 27:56 Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee’s children. Mark 15:47 And Mary Magdalene and Mary [the mother] of Joses beheld where he was laid.
Mary the wife of Clopas is the mother of James and Joseph.
Matt. 27:61 And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre. Matt. 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first [day] of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.Matthew even refers to Mary the wife of Clopas as “the other Mary.”
Mark 3:21 And when his friends heard [of it], they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself. John 7:3 His brethren therefore said unto him, Depart hence, and go into Judaea, that thy disciples also may see the works that thou doest.4 For [there is] no man [that] doeth any thing in secret, and he himself seeketh to be known openly. If thou do these things, shew thyself to the world. we see that younger “brothers” were advising Jesus. But this would have been extremely disrespectful for devout Jews if these were Jesus’ biological brothers.
Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
Jesus was always referred to as “the” son of Mary, not “a” son of Mary. There is no evidence against Joseph being a virgin, just as were Jesus and Mary. As such, they embodied the true Holy Family, fully consecrated to God. James and Joseph are called the “brothers” of Jesus. So James and Joseph are Jesus’ cousins.
Luke 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
the angel tells Mary that you “will” conceive (using the future tense). Mary responds by saying, “How shall this be?” Mary’s response demonstrates that she had taken a vow of lifelong virginity by having no intention to have relations with a man. If Mary did not take such a vow of lifelong virginity, her question would make no sense at all (for we can assume she knew how a child is conceived). She was a consecrated Temple virgin as was an acceptable custom of the times.
Read Luke 2:41-51 in searching for Jesus and finding Him in the temple, there is never any mention of other siblings.
John 19:25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the [wife] of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene. 26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! 27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own [home]. the following verses prove that James and Joseph are Jesus’ cousins and not his brothers: Mary the wife of Clopas is the sister of the Virgin Mary. it would have been unthinkable for Jesus to commit the care of his mother to a friend if he had brothers.
Exodus 13:2 Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, [both] of man and of beast: it [is] mine. Exodus 13:12 That thou shalt set apart unto the LORD all that openeth the matrix, and every firstling that cometh of a beast which thou hast; the males [shall be] the LORD’S. Jesus is sometimes referred to as the “first-born” son of Mary. But “first-born” is a common Jewish expression meaning the first child to open the womb. It has nothing to do the mother having future children.**
Exodus 34:20 But the firstling of an *** thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem [him] not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty. under the Mosaic law, the “first-born” son had to be sanctified. “First-born” status does not require a “second” born.
Ezek. 44:1 Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it [was] shut. 2 Then said the LORD unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut. Ezekiel prophesies that no man shall pass through the gate by which the Lord entered the world. This is a prophecy of Mary’s perpetual virginity. Mary remained a virgin before, during and after the birth of Jesus.
Matt. 10:3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James [the son] of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
James is also called the son of “Alpheus.” This does not disprove that James is the son of Clopas. The name Alpheus may be Aramaic for Clopas, or James took a Greek name like Saul (Paul), or Mary remarried a man named Alpheus.
Matt. 27:56 Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee’s children. Mark 15:47 And Mary Magdalene and Mary [the mother] of Joses beheld where he was laid.
Mary the wife of Clopas is the mother of James and Joseph.
Matt. 27:61 And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre. Matt. 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first [day] of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.Matthew even refers to Mary the wife of Clopas as “the other Mary.”
Mark 3:21 And when his friends heard [of it], they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself. John 7:3 His brethren therefore said unto him, Depart hence, and go into Judaea, that thy disciples also may see the works that thou doest.4 For [there is] no man [that] doeth any thing in secret, and he himself seeketh to be known openly. If thou do these things, shew thyself to the world. we see that younger “brothers” were advising Jesus. But this would have been extremely disrespectful for devout Jews if these were Jesus’ biological brothers.
Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
Jesus was always referred to as “the” son of Mary, not “a” son of Mary. There is no evidence against Joseph being a virgin, just as were Jesus and Mary. As such, they embodied the true Holy Family, fully consecrated to God. James and Joseph are called the “brothers” of Jesus. So James and Joseph are Jesus’ cousins.
Luke 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
the angel tells Mary that you “will” conceive (using the future tense). Mary responds by saying, “How shall this be?” Mary’s response demonstrates that she had taken a vow of lifelong virginity by having no intention to have relations with a man. If Mary did not take such a vow of lifelong virginity, her question would make no sense at all (for we can assume she knew how a child is conceived). She was a consecrated Temple virgin as was an acceptable custom of the times.
Read Luke 2:41-51 in searching for Jesus and finding Him in the temple, there is never any mention of other siblings.
John 19:25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the [wife] of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene. 26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! 27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own [home]. the following verses prove that James and Joseph are Jesus’ cousins and not his brothers: Mary the wife of Clopas is the sister of the Virgin Mary. it would have been unthinkable for Jesus to commit the care of his mother to a friend if he had brothers.
H
hawkeye125646
Guest
**Mary - the Immaculate Ark of the New Covenant
Read Exodus 25:11-21 the ark of the Old Covenant was made of the purest gold for God’s Word. Mary is the ark of the New Covenant and is the purest vessel for the Word of God made flesh**
Exodus 40:34 Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. 35 And Moses was not able to enter into the tent of the congregation, because the cloud abode thereon, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.This is a form of Typology, in regards to the Holy Spirit dwelling!
Read Deuteronomy 10:3-5 Hebrew 9:4 and Luke 1:35 The womb of the Virgin contained Jesus: the living Word of God enfleshed, the living bread from heaven, “the Branch” (Messianic title) who would die but come back to life
read 1 Chron. 13:9-10 this is an account of Uzzah and the Ark. For God to dwell within Mary the Ark, Mary had to be conceived without sin. For Protestants to argue otherwise would be to say that God would let the finger of Satan touch His Son made flesh. This is incomprehensible.
1 Chron. 15 and 1 Chron 16 these verses show the awesome reverence the Jews had for the Ark - veneration, vestments, songs, harps, lyres, cymbals, trumpets.
2 Sam. 6:7 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for [his] error; and there he died by the ark of God. the Ark is so holy and pure that when Uzzah touched it, the Lord slew him. This shows us that the Ark is undefiled. Mary the Ark of the New Covenant is even more immaculate and undefiled, spared by God from original sin so that she could bear His eternal Word in her womb.
2 Sam. 6:2 And David arose, and went with all the people that [were] with him from Baale of Judah, to bring up from thence the ark of God, whose name is called by the name of the LORD of hosts that dwelleth [between] the cherubims. Luke 1:39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda; Luke’s conspicuous comparison’s between Mary and the Ark described by Samuel underscores the reality of Mary as the undefiled and immaculate Ark of the New Covenant. In these verses, Mary (the Ark) arose and went / David arose and went to the Ark. There is a clear parallel between the Ark of the Old and the Ark of the New Covenant.
2 Sam. 6:9 And David was afraid of the LORD that day, and said, How shall the ark of the LORD come to me? Luke 1:43 And whence [is] this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? How can the Mother / Ark of the Lord come to me? It is a holy privilege. Our Mother wants to come to us and lead us to Jesus.
2 Sam. 6:11 And the ark of the LORD continued in the house of Obededom the Gittite three months: and the LORD blessed Obededom, and all his household. Luke 1:56 And Mary abode with her about three months, and returned to her own house. Mary / the Ark remained in the house for about three months
2 Sam 6:14 And David danced before the LORD with all [his] might; and David [was] girded with a linen ephod. Luke 1:44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy. Continuation! 2 Sam 6:15 So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet. Luke 1:42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed [art] thou among women, and blessed [is] the fruit of thy womb.
Read 2 Sam 6:12 and 1 Kings 8:9-11 Is correlated with Read
Luke 1:56 Luke 2:21-22
Numbers 17:8 And it came to pass, that on the morrow Moses went into the tabernacle of witness; and, behold, the rod of Aaron for the house of Levi was budded, and brought forth buds, and bloomed blossoms, and yielded almonds.
Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast [our] profession.
Read Exodus 25:11-21 the ark of the Old Covenant was made of the purest gold for God’s Word. Mary is the ark of the New Covenant and is the purest vessel for the Word of God made flesh**
Exodus 40:34 Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. 35 And Moses was not able to enter into the tent of the congregation, because the cloud abode thereon, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.This is a form of Typology, in regards to the Holy Spirit dwelling!
Read Deuteronomy 10:3-5 Hebrew 9:4 and Luke 1:35 The womb of the Virgin contained Jesus: the living Word of God enfleshed, the living bread from heaven, “the Branch” (Messianic title) who would die but come back to life
read 1 Chron. 13:9-10 this is an account of Uzzah and the Ark. For God to dwell within Mary the Ark, Mary had to be conceived without sin. For Protestants to argue otherwise would be to say that God would let the finger of Satan touch His Son made flesh. This is incomprehensible.
1 Chron. 15 and 1 Chron 16 these verses show the awesome reverence the Jews had for the Ark - veneration, vestments, songs, harps, lyres, cymbals, trumpets.
2 Sam. 6:7 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for [his] error; and there he died by the ark of God. the Ark is so holy and pure that when Uzzah touched it, the Lord slew him. This shows us that the Ark is undefiled. Mary the Ark of the New Covenant is even more immaculate and undefiled, spared by God from original sin so that she could bear His eternal Word in her womb.
2 Sam. 6:2 And David arose, and went with all the people that [were] with him from Baale of Judah, to bring up from thence the ark of God, whose name is called by the name of the LORD of hosts that dwelleth [between] the cherubims. Luke 1:39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda; Luke’s conspicuous comparison’s between Mary and the Ark described by Samuel underscores the reality of Mary as the undefiled and immaculate Ark of the New Covenant. In these verses, Mary (the Ark) arose and went / David arose and went to the Ark. There is a clear parallel between the Ark of the Old and the Ark of the New Covenant.
2 Sam. 6:9 And David was afraid of the LORD that day, and said, How shall the ark of the LORD come to me? Luke 1:43 And whence [is] this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? How can the Mother / Ark of the Lord come to me? It is a holy privilege. Our Mother wants to come to us and lead us to Jesus.
2 Sam. 6:11 And the ark of the LORD continued in the house of Obededom the Gittite three months: and the LORD blessed Obededom, and all his household. Luke 1:56 And Mary abode with her about three months, and returned to her own house. Mary / the Ark remained in the house for about three months
2 Sam 6:14 And David danced before the LORD with all [his] might; and David [was] girded with a linen ephod. Luke 1:44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy. Continuation! 2 Sam 6:15 So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet. Luke 1:42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed [art] thou among women, and blessed [is] the fruit of thy womb.
Read 2 Sam 6:12 and 1 Kings 8:9-11 Is correlated with Read
Luke 1:56 Luke 2:21-22
Numbers 17:8 And it came to pass, that on the morrow Moses went into the tabernacle of witness; and, behold, the rod of Aaron for the house of Levi was budded, and brought forth buds, and bloomed blossoms, and yielded almonds.
Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast [our] profession.
H
hawkeye125646
Guest
**Mary is our Mother and Queen of the New Davidic Kingdom
Read 1 Kings 2:17-20 in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the King does not refuse his mother. Jesus is the new Davidic King, and He does not refuse the requests of his mother Mary, the Queen. in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the Queen intercedes on behalf of the King’s followers. She is the Queen Mother (or “Gebirah”). Mary is our eternal Gebirah. in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom the King bows down to his mother and she sits at his right hand. We, as children of the New Covenant, should imitate our King and pay the same homage to Mary our Mother. By honoring Mary, we honor our King, Jesus Christ.
Read 1 Kings 15:10-13 the Queen Mother is a powerful position in Israel’s royal monarchy. Here the Queen is removed from office. But now, the Davidic kingdom is perfected by Jesus, and our Mother Mary is forever at His right hand.
2 Chron. 22:10 But when Athaliah the mother of Ahaziah saw that her son was dead, she arose and destroyed all the seed royal of the house of Judah. here Queen Mother Athalia destroys the royal family of Judah after she sees her son, King Ahaziah, dead. The Queen mother plays a significant role in the kingdom.
Nehemiah 2:6 And the king said unto me, (the queen also sitting by him,) For how long shall thy journey be? and when wilt thou return? So it pleased the king to send me; and I set him a time the Queen Mother sits beside the King. She is the primary intercessor before the King.
Psalm 45:9 Kings’ daughters [were] among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir. the psalmist teaches that the Queen stands at the right hand of God. The role of the Queen is important in God’s kingdom. Mary the Queen of heaven is at the right hand of the Son of God.
John 2:3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. this is a very signifcant verse in Scripture. As our mother, Mary tells all of us to do whatever Jesus tells us. Further, Mary’s intercession at the marriage feast in Cana triggers Jesus’ ministry and a foreshadowing of the Eucharistic celebration of the Lamb. This celebration unites all believers into one famiy through the marriage of divinity and humanity.John 2:7 Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.
John 19:26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
Jesus makes Mary the Mother of us all as He dies on the Cross by saying “behold your mother.” Jesus did not say “John, behold your mother” because he gave Mary to all of us, his beloved disciples. All the words that Jesus spoke on Cross had a divine purpose. Jesus was not just telling John to take care of his mother
Rev. 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
this verse proves the meaning of John 19:26. The “woman’s” (Mary’s) offspring are those who follow Jesus. She is our Mother and we are her offspring in Jesus Christ. The master plan of God’s covenant love for us is family. But we cannot be a complete family with the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of Christ without the Motherhood of Mary.**
Read 1 Kings 2:17-20 in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the King does not refuse his mother. Jesus is the new Davidic King, and He does not refuse the requests of his mother Mary, the Queen. in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the Queen intercedes on behalf of the King’s followers. She is the Queen Mother (or “Gebirah”). Mary is our eternal Gebirah. in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom the King bows down to his mother and she sits at his right hand. We, as children of the New Covenant, should imitate our King and pay the same homage to Mary our Mother. By honoring Mary, we honor our King, Jesus Christ.
Read 1 Kings 15:10-13 the Queen Mother is a powerful position in Israel’s royal monarchy. Here the Queen is removed from office. But now, the Davidic kingdom is perfected by Jesus, and our Mother Mary is forever at His right hand.
2 Chron. 22:10 But when Athaliah the mother of Ahaziah saw that her son was dead, she arose and destroyed all the seed royal of the house of Judah. here Queen Mother Athalia destroys the royal family of Judah after she sees her son, King Ahaziah, dead. The Queen mother plays a significant role in the kingdom.
Nehemiah 2:6 And the king said unto me, (the queen also sitting by him,) For how long shall thy journey be? and when wilt thou return? So it pleased the king to send me; and I set him a time the Queen Mother sits beside the King. She is the primary intercessor before the King.
Psalm 45:9 Kings’ daughters [were] among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir. the psalmist teaches that the Queen stands at the right hand of God. The role of the Queen is important in God’s kingdom. Mary the Queen of heaven is at the right hand of the Son of God.
John 2:3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. this is a very signifcant verse in Scripture. As our mother, Mary tells all of us to do whatever Jesus tells us. Further, Mary’s intercession at the marriage feast in Cana triggers Jesus’ ministry and a foreshadowing of the Eucharistic celebration of the Lamb. This celebration unites all believers into one famiy through the marriage of divinity and humanity.John 2:7 Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.
John 19:26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
Jesus makes Mary the Mother of us all as He dies on the Cross by saying “behold your mother.” Jesus did not say “John, behold your mother” because he gave Mary to all of us, his beloved disciples. All the words that Jesus spoke on Cross had a divine purpose. Jesus was not just telling John to take care of his mother
Rev. 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
this verse proves the meaning of John 19:26. The “woman’s” (Mary’s) offspring are those who follow Jesus. She is our Mother and we are her offspring in Jesus Christ. The master plan of God’s covenant love for us is family. But we cannot be a complete family with the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of Christ without the Motherhood of Mary.**
H
hawkeye125646
Guest
**Mary’s Coronation in Heaven
2 Timothy 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing. Paul says that there is laid up for him the crown of righteousness. The saints are crowned in heaven, and Mary is the greatest saint of all.
James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
those who endure will receive the crown of life which God has promised. Mary has received the crown of life by bringing eternal life to the world.
1 Peter 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away. when the chief Shepherd is manifested we will receive the unfading crown of glory
Rev. 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. Jesus will give the faithful unto death the crown of life. Jesus gave Mary His Mother the crown of life.
Rev. 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: Mary, the “woman,” is crowned with twelve stars. She is Queen of heaven and earth and the Mother of the Church
Wis. 5:16 But the just shall live for evermore: and their reward is with the Lord, and the care of them with the most High. 5:17. Therefore shall they receive a kingdom of glory, and a crown of beauty at the hand of the Lord: for with his right hand he will cover them, and with his holy arm he will defend them. we will receive a glorious crown and a beautiful diadem from the hand of the Lord. Mary is with Jesus forever crowned in His glory.**
2 Timothy 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing. Paul says that there is laid up for him the crown of righteousness. The saints are crowned in heaven, and Mary is the greatest saint of all.
James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
those who endure will receive the crown of life which God has promised. Mary has received the crown of life by bringing eternal life to the world.
1 Peter 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away. when the chief Shepherd is manifested we will receive the unfading crown of glory
Rev. 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. Jesus will give the faithful unto death the crown of life. Jesus gave Mary His Mother the crown of life.
Rev. 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: Mary, the “woman,” is crowned with twelve stars. She is Queen of heaven and earth and the Mother of the Church
Wis. 5:16 But the just shall live for evermore: and their reward is with the Lord, and the care of them with the most High. 5:17. Therefore shall they receive a kingdom of glory, and a crown of beauty at the hand of the Lord: for with his right hand he will cover them, and with his holy arm he will defend them. we will receive a glorious crown and a beautiful diadem from the hand of the Lord. Mary is with Jesus forever crowned in His glory.**
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Roy5
Guest
The Queen Mother in the Kingdom established by David was Bathsheba, who David essentially raped and then had her husband, Uriah, killed in battle. Bathsheba became the Queen Mother of Solomon, who had 700 wives and 300 concubines.
I wonder if introducing this Queen Mother image to somehow prefigure Mary is a good idea.
M
MartinMark
Guest
I believe Mary was not supposed to be mentioned very often. Unlike Eve, she’s very supportive, humble, etc. However, when she is mentioned, she is giving Jesus birth, helping Him with His first miracle, at the foot of the cross unlike most, etc. She is always supportive of Jesus/the Trinity. Regarding how we should live this life, Mary is the best example we have, other than Jesus.
We give all of the glory to God, greatly honoring Mary. Thanks.
P
Pdaniels2
Guest
Romans 11:26 says “And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:”
Yet we can assume that not EVERYONE is Israel will be saved. So how can you assume that Mary was without sin. Jesus received half of his sinless nature from God, but he has to be without natural human sin as well, therefore Mary did not sin.
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rinnie
Guest
It has been taught and believed from the beginning that Mary was saved from Original Sin at the moment of her conception.
So lets look at this another way, Do you believe it was impossible for God to save the Blessed Mother at the MOMENT of her conception from being tainted from any sin?
Now it is said she is indeed saved from all sin. Now God became Human through the Blessed Mother. So he indeed got his human nature through her.
Now if the Blessed Mother was indeed not preserved from Original Sin would she not have passed it down to Jesus in his human nature then?
She would have had to. Because all Original sin is inherited to us from our Parents. the first being Eve.
So she was either saved as the Apostles and Early Fathers have always taught and as the Angel stated. or she was not full of God’s grace as the angel stated and the scripture is not the true word of God.
You cannot have it both ways.
You cannot be FULL of Grace which means without ANY sin at all, and still have original sin in you.
Is not original sin indeed sin? Did Jesus have original sin? Of course not. The scripture tells us he was human in every way except in Sin.
So either the Blessed Mother was saved as the Church teaches at the moment of her conception and free from ALL sin and indeed FULL of Grace BEFORE Christ died on the cross and we all became free of Original sin.
Or you are correct and the scripture and Church are indeed both wrong and actually the whole gospel has to be wrong.
It is said she was saved for the merit of her son. Anotherwards She was saved before Christ died and because of the merit of his death. Which also lines up with the Teachings of Christ. He came here to die so we could live.
So you either have to believe she could indeed be saved by the death of Christ before it happened because God knows all that has happened, will happen because there is no time for God.
Or she could not be saved from original sin and had to have it, and if she did, she had to have passed it on to her Son.
Because there is nowhere in the Scripture that states the Father saved the Son from Original sin. It just states the Son was perfect without sin.
But it does state the Blessed Mother was indeed free from sin before the angel appeared to her. How do you feel this is possible? If not the way the Church teaches.
You say full of Grace is a stretch to believe means free from ALL sin. I believe its a stretch to believe we can have original sin and be free from all sin and full of Grace.
Another thought where is the scripture or teachings of the Fathers of the Church that teaches Jesus was cleansed from Human Sin, that he got from his Mother?
The Church teaches he never had it, because she was saved at the moment of her conception. SAVED! Many people miss the word saved.
Who saved her? Jesus the same person who saved us.
So now lets do it your way for one moment. Since we need scripture. Where is it said Jesus was saved from Original sin, and how then? Scripture only states he was Perfect, Human and Divine.
It also stated the Blessed Mother was full of Grace.
Now the early Fathers of the Church explain this, they explain how Christ was human in every way but sin, by his Mother being saved at the moment of her conception. GOd saved her by the merit of her son.
Now what is your proof? Where is your teaching?
R
rinnie
Guest
Why? We compare her to Eve.
The Blessed Mother is indeed the Queen Mother who was the opposite of all sin. Where the others sinned she indeed overcame sin. Did She not say, I am a handmaid of the Lord. Let your will be done!
Just like where all the other prophets and High Priest in the O.T. failed and sinned Christ did not!
We compare Christ to all of the other Prophets yet the ONE TRUE GOD without sin. What is the difference?
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Rabbity
Guest
I’m not a protestant or any variety of christian for that matter, but since being here I’ve learned a lot about catholic beliefs.
As for Mary, if I did hypothetically convert, Mary, veneration of the saints, cloud of witnesses and intercessory prayer would not be a barrier. In fact, that would make more sense to me as a hypothetical christian than not having those elements.
That said, despite the verses in the posts above, I would take the view of the Orthodox regarding Mary’s sinless nature, she became sinless when she agreed to have Jesus. To have her as sinless since birth makes her not fully human and removes her agency to agree or disagree to bear Jesus and dims the grace bestowed upon her when she says yes. I also have trouble with the “ever-virgin” idea.
As for Mary, if I did hypothetically convert, Mary, veneration of the saints, cloud of witnesses and intercessory prayer would not be a barrier. In fact, that would make more sense to me as a hypothetical christian than not having those elements.
That said, despite the verses in the posts above, I would take the view of the Orthodox regarding Mary’s sinless nature, she became sinless when she agreed to have Jesus. To have her as sinless since birth makes her not fully human and removes her agency to agree or disagree to bear Jesus and dims the grace bestowed upon her when she says yes. I also have trouble with the “ever-virgin” idea.
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
“she became sinless when she agreed to have Jesus”
Right she would have had to been free of sin by this point of the Incarnation, basic Christian belief. For logic is the Lord was free of sin.
Reasoning is also God knew Mary before she was even conceived “as he knew ‘all’ of us, per Bible,” then two questions come to mind, He already knew Her destination why wouldn’t He preserve Her then, and the Angel greets Mary “before” She consents in free-will, thus she was Full of Grace already.
1 She could have been preserved at the moment of conception
2 She could have been preserved at Her Conception the thus the IC
3 She could have been preseved somewhere in between.
It is most fitting is the IC.
M
MartinJordan
Guest
Jesus’ lineage comes from the line of sinners. David was also a sinner and the Jewish people accept him and revered him.Why? We compare her to Eve.
The Blessed Mother is indeed the Queen Mother who was the opposite of all sin. Where the others sinned she indeed overcame sin. Did She not say, I am a handmaid of the Lord. Let your will be done!
Just like where all the other prophets and High Priest in the O.T. failed and sinned Christ did not!
We compare Christ to all of the other Prophets yet the ONE TRUE GOD without sin. What is the difference?
Back to Christianity, Jesus was called Son Of David but rights the wrongs. So Mary rights the wrongs of Eve and thus can say even Bathsheba.
So there should be no problem therefore connecting Mary to Bathsheba.
Finally, Solomon is son of David, Solomon’s mother was Bathsheba. Thus Jesus being Son of David we can connect Mother Mary to complete the “puzzle”.
Mary Queen of Heaven, pray for us
MJ
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