Proud to be a cafeteria Catholic

[TakingItAllIn]

I think that a more proper and productive frame to discuss the concept of dissent from Catholic doctrine and morality would be to speak of “being in communion” with the Church. I heard Monsignor Charles Pope give some great talks on this very matter. He made some good points that the Church is the “body of Christ” and if you dissent then you are not in full communion with the body of Christ. If one were to dissent, but say that its OK, because they believe in Christ, that is the equivalent of wanting the head without the body.

 

[adawgj]

In my opinion it’s too judgmental to call people cafeteria Catholics.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Cardinal Wuerl says, “there are those who take part of what we say and there are others that take another part of what we say. But we have to keep saying the whole package.”

foxnews.com/transcript/2015/06/21/cardinal-donald-wuerl-on-pope-climate-change-message-can-rick-perry-escape/

Which makes me wonder if there are more Catholics across the spectrum who pick and choose than they themselves realize or will admit.

Just one very basic example I’ve seen of this even here on CAF are those Catholics who consider themselves more faithful but say a person is not a Catholic even though the person was baptized in a Catholic Church and the Church teaches what is known as the acronym OCAC.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Perhaps the people you call ‘cafeteria Catholics’ are just as devout and committed to the Church as those who are ‘rude and haughty about the rules of the faith.’ Where rules are important to some members, being a part of a community that loves and worships Christ is just as important.

I know many who who are born and raised in the Church, studied at Catholic schools, and now work towards bringing Christ’s teachings into our lives. They will tell you upfront that they support women’s ordination, women’s health, inclusion of our gay brothers and sisters, and all the other progressive ideals. I see them pray every day, and offer their time and talent to the Church.

The Church for them IS the Roman Catholic Church. They are not about to leave it. My guess is that they are concerned less about rules and more about walking with Christ. (And if you were to say, but the rules ARE what Christ asks us to follow, they would shake their heads and say something very different. You should take a moment and listen to their answers. Really.)

You are correct. Many pray daily, strive to worship God, wouldn’t think of doing so anywhere else, strive to spread love and kindness to their neighbors, and offer their talent, time, and contribute financially to the Church according to their means. They are in the pews offering the sign of peace.

 

[Sy_Noe]

While I absolutely hate when people are rude and haughty about the rules of the faith (clanging gongs!) I have to wonder why cafeteria Catholics want to stay if the Church teaches things they don’t agree with.

It just seems to me that with over 20,000 other denominations there is something that would be more fitting to your needs and if there isn’t, you can start a new one.

But if someone wants to be a member of the Catholic Church, why wouldn’t they follow the rules? Everyone is welcome and no one is turned away who desires to follow the faith, but if they don’t want to, why on earth would they want to stay?

To you and the others here who wonder, look no further than to what the Catholic Church teaches as to who She calls a Catholic. I know until I quit attending Mass, my Baptism and Confirmation was part of why.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Unless you want to push your own belief into the church so the church will change it (which I think it is often the case not that they are less concerned about rules) it makes absolutely no sense.

Not ever when I worshiped in a Catholic church did I think I could change it.

 

[Sy_Noe]

I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot. So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.

Yes. Jesus knows whose hearts are on fire for Him and those lukewarm.

 

[simpleas]

Thanks for all the replies to the article, I haven’t read them all as I’m off to work, but will check back later today.

 

[Giggly_Giraffe]

1. The church needs to purge itself of cafeteria Catholicswho don’t believe or follow all of its teachings.

4% – Agree
88% – Disagree
8% – Other

• See more at: uscatholic.org/articles/201507/proud-be-cafeteria-catholic-30253#.dpuf

Yes, the artical indicates Catholics want to include even the sloppiest of Catholics to the great feast with a whopping 88%. However, when toxics like it’s okay to “walk out of Mass early … Judge people … Walk past that sick person … Ect” every who takes the Eucharist is getting part of that spiked punch. When the Punch Bowl at our great feast, is spiked with a deadly poison with ideologies like “abortion is okay, porno is okay, steeling is okay, premarital sex is okay” … we all get the deadly toxic effects and it spreads throughout the masses. I would imagine the poster who called you an atheist probably has fought the evil you were favoring and their fervent attack was to help them stay in Gods boundaries more than persuading you to change.

 

[DaveBj]

In my opinion it’s too judgmental to call people cafeteria Catholics.

Just to satisfy my own curiosity, what would you call them?

 

[7_Sorrows]

1. The church needs to purge itself of cafeteria Catholicswho don’t believe or follow all of its teachings.

4% – Agree
88% – Disagree
8% – Other

• See more at: uscatholic.org/articles/201507/proud-be-cafeteria-catholic-30253#.dpuf

Yes, the artical indicates Catholics want to include even the sloppiest of Catholics to the great feast with a whopping 88%. However, when toxics like it’s okay to “walk out of Mass early … Judge people … Walk past that sick person … Ect” every who takes the Eucharist is getting part of that spiked punch. When the Punch Bowl at our great feast, is spiked with a deadly poison with ideologies like “abortion is okay, porno is okay, steeling is okay, premarital sex is okay” … we all get the deadly toxic effects and it spreads throughout the masses. I would imagine the poster who called you an atheist probably has fought the evil you were favoring and their fervent attack was to help them stay in Gods boundaries more than persuading you to change.

I hope the 88% aren’t the cafeteria Catholics!

 

[Mike_Dye]

I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot. So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.

I was going to quote the same verse when I read your post. Sadly it will probably fall on deaf ears…nearly 2000 years after it was written it still is not being heeded.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Just to satisfy my own curiosity, what would you call them?

Maybe just choose to follow what your Church says they are, Catholic?

 

[Sy_Noe]

I was going to quote the same verse when I read your post. Sadly it will probably fall on deaf ears…nearly 2000 years after it was written it still is not being heeded.

It doesn’t fall on deaf ears that only God knows the degree of warmth, the fire, the burning for Him inside another’s heart.

 

[simpleas]

Thanks again for all posts, I’ll continue here, I won’t respond to posts as I just wanted to read what others thought of the article.

BTW the article is not by me…

But I did find this part of it agreeable

*Evangelization calls us, first of all, to a personal relationship with Jesus. The Almighty God, creator of all, took on human flesh and became one of us in the person of Jesus. His teaching was simple: God loves you. What does God expect in return? Love God and love others. It seems so simple.

There is one God, but there are many of us. And each of us is different, with different desires and needs. We have different tastes and styles. We think differently. We look different and speak different languages. We even speak the same languages differently.

So what happens when you throw out a couple of simple commandments to a world full of unique souls? Love of God and love of others becomes mighty complicated. We squabble over liturgies, worship language, and prayer forms. We believe in the same basic commandments but disagree with how they have been interpreted over the years.

For some, moral teachings are black and white and must be accepted with full and unquestioning obedience. Others struggle with the grayness of life’s many questions and believe that the answers aren’t always clear-cut.*

• See more at: uscatholic.org/articles/201507/proud-be-cafeteria-catholic-30253#sthash.OPCUzNAZ.dpuf

The way I’ve always thought of the church and the people within it was that we all have our own journey to take. I never knew what a cafeteria catholic was as I’d never come across it until I searched for information online. I didn’t think as a Catholic we were in the game of naming or labeling anyone, Catholic or not. I only knew the term lapsed Catholic.

I’m not sure way anyone would actually think that any person should leave the church because they have struggles with some teaching, like a few others said, they are not about to make a stand and shout about difficult life situations, and demand that the church change to suit everyone else’s agenda.

It sort of became clear when I heard this Sundays Gospel, the washing of hands ritual that the jewish people observed before eating. They asked Jesus about it, why didn’t his disciples wash hands before eating, that’s what they had always done. Of course Jesus didn’t say they need not wash their hands anymore, but that many washed hands and paid only lip service to God, didn’t really even think about what they were doing when they washed hands. But perhaps the ones that didn’t wash hands, were doing what God wanted.

I don’t mean this to sound like we need not observe any of the rituals we do, of course if a person wished to become a Catholic they need to learn the faith, what is believed and practice the faith etc. But then that is where the journey starts, even for cradle Catholics who leave the church, because they wanted to go off and live their life how they wanted and not how someone else says they should. Many years later they come back to the church and are welcomed, why do we think we should not welcome everyone within the church then?

I understand there have been some who have left the church and continued to practice the faith in their own way, so they have really made the point that they are taking a stand and trying to change the church.

To me, every person who is at mass is there of there own freewill once they are of the age to understand many things, and they are just as part of the church as I am in my own struggle, happiness, and obedience.

There is only a Catholic IMO.

 

[DaveBj]

Maybe just choose to follow what your Church says they are, Catholic?

Ah, but what KIND of Catholic? Certainly not devout or completely observant.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Ah, but what KIND of Catholic? Certainly not devout or completely observant.

The way a former, since retired bishop explained it to me once, if someone was baptized or confirmed in a Catholic Church, Catholic teaching is they are a member of the Catholic Church. Even if such a person were to reject teachings such as Mass obligation, Transubstantiation or even on something such as abortion, they are still a Catholic he said. Now perhaps less than fully practicing, but Catholic. I think a greater problem comes about when Catholics start throwing around labels such as cafeteria, “in name only”, and worse. Those that do so may not know it. But trust me it can drive people even further away. And I wouldn’t think that would be a good thing to even the most faithful and devout. Peace on your journey and to all.

 

[R_H_Benson]

The way a former, since retired bishop explained it to me once, if someone was baptized or confirmed in a Catholic Church, Catholic teaching is they are a member of the Catholic Church**. Even if such a person were to reject teachings such as Mass obligation, Transubstantiation or even on something such as abortion, they are still a Catholic he said. Now perhaps less than fully practicing, but Catholic. ** I think a greater problem comes about when Catholics start throwing around labels such as cafeteria, “in name only”, and worse. Those that do so may not know it. But trust me it can drive people even further away. And I wouldn’t think that would be a good thing to even the most faithful and devout.

Such a Catholic is objectively a heretic. Heresy is an excommunicable offense. It is very possible that some “cafeteria Catholics” have excommunicated themselves. You are emphasizing that “cafeteria Catholics” remain Catholic. While that may be true, the focus of the issue is the potential loss of salvation by such people.

As I mentioned in my previous post, the term “cafeteria Catholic” is a modern euphemism for “heretic”.

 

[DaveBj]

Such a Catholic is objectively a heretic. Heresy is an excommunicable offense. It is very possible that some “cafeteria Catholics” have excommunicated themselves. You are emphasizing that “cafeteria Catholics” remain Catholic. While that may be true, the focus of the issue is the potential loss of salvation by such people.

As I mentioned in my previous post, the term “cafeteria Catholic” is a modern euphemism for “heretic”.

^^^This.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Thanks again for all posts, I’ll continue here, I won’t respond to posts as I just wanted to read what others thought of the article.

BTW the article is not by me…

But I did find this part of it agreeable

*Evangelization calls us, first of all, to a personal relationship with Jesus. The Almighty God, creator of all, took on human flesh and became one of us in the person of Jesus. His teaching was simple: God loves you. What does God expect in return? Love God and love others. It seems so simple.

There is one God, but there are many of us. And each of us is different, with different desires and needs. We have different tastes and styles. We think differently. We look different and speak different languages. We even speak the same languages differently.

So what happens when you throw out a couple of simple commandments to a world full of unique souls? Love of God and love of others becomes mighty complicated. We squabble over liturgies, worship language, and prayer forms. We believe in the same basic commandments but disagree with how they have been interpreted over the years.

For some, moral teachings are black and white and must be accepted with full and unquestioning obedience. Others struggle with the grayness of life’s many questions and believe that the answers aren’t always clear-cut.*

• See more at: uscatholic.org/articles/201507/proud-be-cafeteria-catholic-30253#sthash.OPCUzNAZ.dpuf

The way I’ve always thought of the church and the people within it was that we all have our own journey to take. I never knew what a cafeteria catholic was as I’d never come across it until I searched for information online. I didn’t think as a Catholic we were in the game of naming or labeling anyone, Catholic or not. I only knew the term lapsed Catholic.

I’m not sure way anyone would actually think that any person should leave the church because they have struggles with some teaching, like a few others said, they are not about to make a stand and shout about difficult life situations, and demand that the church change to suit everyone else’s agenda.

It sort of became clear when I heard this Sundays Gospel, the washing of hands ritual that the jewish people observed before eating. They asked Jesus about it, why didn’t his disciples wash hands before eating, that’s what they had always done. Of course Jesus didn’t say they need not wash their hands anymore, but that many washed hands and paid only lip service to God, didn’t really even think about what they were doing when they washed hands. But perhaps the ones that didn’t wash hands, were doing what God wanted.

I don’t mean this to sound like we need not observe any of the rituals we do, of course if a person wished to become a Catholic they need to learn the faith, what is believed and practice the faith etc. But then that is where the journey starts, even for cradle Catholics who leave the church, because they wanted to go off and live their life how they wanted and not how someone else says they should. Many years later they come back to the church and are welcomed, why do we think we should not welcome everyone within the church then?

I understand there have been some who have left the church and continued to practice the faith in their own way, so they have really made the point that they are taking a stand and trying to change the church.

To me, every person who is at mass is there of there own freewill once they are of the age to understand many things, and they are just as part of the church as I am in my own struggle, happiness, and obedience.

There is only a Catholic IMO.

According to the Catholic Church this is so. There may be a distinction in the degree that the faith is practiced. But other labels beyond that I know can cause people to run further away. No one wants stones cast at them. Generally, people will go where they feel loved and welcomed and feel received as they come, and warts and all.