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Bible_Believer
Guest
The Bible IS the final authority…and what you say about self intrepreting. the sort of truth to that is that you DO have to rightly divide, knowing the context of what you are reading…
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montanaman
Guest
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Mannyfit75
Guest
Where doesn’t say it is the final authority? The Bible no where implies such concept.
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mangy_dog
Guest
High!!
Now you are pulling text out of context. After the Lord says, [John 6: 33-35] , He goes on to re-state about His body and blood. As a matter of fact He emphasizes His body and blood several times from 1 thru 66. By you pulling 33-35 out of the context you are manipulating the words and intent of the Lord to fuel your denial.
The Bread of Life and the Cup of Salvation in the Eucharist IS the Body and Blood of Christ.
You’re probably a good disciple…but you’re also probably one of the ones that would’ve walked away from Jesus on that day - to practice your own brand of Godly living. And don’t even try to say that you live according to His Word, … you don’t. If you did - you would be Catholic. It is the one, true church that Christ intended to exist after His ascension into heaven and of which He left Peter as it first Pope,…263 popes later to Pope Benedict XVI.
Your belief is in-com-plete. You may be a good disciple, but you need to be like the apostles…Lord, who shall we go to (faith), you have the words of life (reason).
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ncgolf
Guest
Yikes … be careful what you say! What a believing Catholic can say is … Jesus … I believe what you are saying (we will eat your body and drink your blood) … the best you can say is … Jesus I believe in you …just not what you say (or at least this part … you must have been mistaken). If you believe in the Bible then believe what the Bible says. You must address why Christ would say something He does not mean. It is right there below … Christ’s own words … straight (all I did was quote Christ’s own words below nothing else) …for you to say Christ means faith is to doubt Christ’s own words. Did Christ lie to those people?
From John 6: (NAB)
53 “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven, not as the fathers ate and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”
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luv_pis
Guest
Goodness, here I go again.
Go to the link I have in my signature, and take the Test.
Go to the link I have in my signature, and take the Test.
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agangbern
Guest
Don’t stop at 1 Cor 11:26. Continue to 1Cor 11:27-29, “Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily, will be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. But let a man prove himself, and so let him eat of that bread and drink of the cup; for he who eats and drinks unworthily, without distinguishing the body, eats and drinks judgment to himself.”
po18guy
Well-known member
First, the point is that you are greatly mislead. Everything that follows is written out of love for a soul that has been misinformed. Those from whom you have learned have twisted the Catholic Church and scripture until Christ would no longer recognize it. They reject even Christ, having walked away from His Body and Blood. All because of the hardness of their hearts against His church. They are filled with ego, which leads them away from the truth. And if you follow them, you drift away from the truth, as well. What is the authority of any of those who have told you what to believe about the Catholic Church? Pride? Ego? Arrogance? Their private (and meaningless) interpretation of scripture?
Have you even been inside a Catholic Church, asking the faithful why they do what they do? Have you asked a Priest or Bishop about the faith? Do you have a GENUINE Catholic catechism, not some incomplete, altered, or false document? Everything we do as Catholics comes straight from scripture, or is authorized by scripture, since scripture is incomplete. Please consider that it is possible that you have been turned against the truth. Please open your ears and those faithful members here will “patiently” explain it to you.
The bible, that you may believe is all there is of Christ, was written, examined, scrutinized, discussed, argued, assembled, tested, re-tested and viewed under the influence of the Holy Spirit. This was all accomplished by Apostles, their disciples and the early church fathers. They were the very foundation of what Christ’s church was, and has become: the “catholic” or universal church. The One Church then preserved the bible, at a price in blood, so that you can hold one today.
I am glad that you are not offended, since *you *came here out of the blue, telling us that everything we know is wrong, that our Holy Father is evil, that we are idol worshippers on the fast track to hell. And it’s you that’s not offended? Thank you very much!
So, the little tract that you read is superior to thousands of years of teachings and writings of Apostles, theologians, scholars, martyrs, and those illumined by the Holy Spirit who have guided the church? Wow! I know you believe each and every word in the bible. Catholics do, too, because the bible came from the early Catholic Church. So, if you attack the Catholic Church, you had better burn your bible and write something better.
I pray for you, that the Holy Spirit lead you to all truth, using the Catholic Bible that you now hold in your hands; that the influence you have received from angry people will subside, and that rash judgment will give way to reasoned examination.
Christ’s peace.
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Ronald_E
Guest
The bible is not the final authority. Jesus is the final authority. If we say the bible is the final authority then we reduce Jesus to a product of human expression. If we do that there is no way we could ever believe that He is present in the Eucharist.
po18guy
Well-known member
NO! God is the final authority, not the book. Being a bible believer, your faith is bible centered. Us being Sacramental Christians, our church is Christ centered. We have everything you do (properly interpreted by the way) and more. We have His Body and Blood. We have the sacred Tradition that Paul spoke of and Sacred Scripture. Not only that, we have the original scripture, as God intended, not the edited, censored (whatever) version that is in your hands. The early Christians who assembled your bible, the one you know is inerrant and God-breathed, also included seven books of Old Testament scripture. Luther, by his own ego (“authority”) threw this scripture away. Don’t you want a complete bible? Go buy a universal bible (Catholic) and you will, for the first time in your life, have a complete bible.
I am also praying that the Holy Spirit speaks to your heart, to lead you to complete scripture, complete truth, a complete Christ.
Christ’s peace.
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Ronald_E
Guest
Dear Bible Believer, The Old Testament was the scripture at the time of Christ. What is very interesting are the references made to Christ’s coming. However, some recognized Him when He came but the majority did not recognize Him. As Catholics we are blessed with His presence in the Eucharist if we believe. His words tell us this is so. All of us have access to His Words. Why is it that some will see Him in the Eucharist and some will not. In Christ’s time He was expected to come as a great leader and king who would be like the images of their past leaders and have a political power similar to their past. Nobody expected that God would be made man. They did not see Him even though He was there in front of Him. Now He tells us He is available to us in the Eucharist and asks us to believe even though we do not see what we expect to see as His presence. Are we to believe that the Word who created everything can have His presence in a piece of bread? He said that blessed are those who do not see yet believe. In scripture we have His Words that tell us to believe even though we do not see. Do want to believe that He is present in the Eucharist? Or do you want to continue to have a debate? With God all things are possible. God Bless You
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
The same is true now in my opinion.
The PromsisedMessiah1835-1908 has come but some have recognized him and accepted him while others have not. I would say that for humanity’s sake everyone should accept him, in my opinion. Please don’t miss the bus like Jews had missed it.
No disrespect is intended to anyone.
Thanks
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Ronald_E
Guest
Dear Paar, Those Jews who did recognize Christ wrote the New Testament and gave us the knowledge that Christ came to them. And through their writings they gave us His Word. The Jews walked and lived with Him. If not for the Jews we would not have knowledge of Christ. God Bless You with your passion for God’s Truth and the desire that we all unite with him. I feel the same as you.
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agangbern
Guest
Remember? Christ in ancient times appeared as a rock that followed the Israelites in the desert to sustain them.( 1 Cor 10:2:-4) Nobody has ever yet doubted that that rock was Christ Himself, at least I have not known one who doubted it. In the days of the early Christians, Christ appeared as a bread, or so that was what St. Paul taught (1 Cor 11:29), and this appearance He keeps on even to our times.
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Bible_Believer
Guest
Ronald…I didnt know I was trying to debate anyone…I thought I was free to state what I believe just as you are. And no, I do not want to believe Jesus Christ is present in the Eucharist. I mean no disrespect, but this is one area we will agree to disagree on. I have never seen the word Eucharist in the Bible.
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Bible_Believer
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JohnnyReb
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With all due respect the word Trinity is never found in the Bible.
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Bible_Believer
Guest
That is true…I agree…about the trinity, I mean…
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angelusm
Guest
Jesus said: this is My Body, this is My Blood. He didn’t say: this is bread and wine. Isn’t it enough for you? And what about eucharistic miracles? One more thing, the difference between you and me is that you are a Bible believer while I’m a God believer
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Ronald_E
Guest
Dear Bible Believer, First of all I am sorry I made that statement about wanting to believe or to debate. I said that with hostility and that was a sin. I am glad you pointed that out and I hope you are not hurt by my sin. Please forgive me and I ask God’s forgiveness also. Secondly, I do not know if you have a Bible that includes the Book of Sirach or the Book of Wisdom. These contain some beautiful words from God that are truly a gift. There are five other books in the Old Testament that I am sure you are aware of that contain beautiful Truths. The Second Book of Maccabees describes a mother being forced to watch each one of her seven sons be unimaginably tortured and put to death rather than betray God. The Book of Sirach was used in the early church in the first century as a source of moral teaching. It was then not included in the Hebrew Bible after that time because it was used as a source of Christian formation. I will no longer attempt to prove to you that Christ is present in Communion. I do not want to sin in the smallest way and cause you suffering. I was wrong.
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