Prove Transubtantiation and I will convert

[AlegreFe]

What exactly is a holy hour like you were telling me?? When you say the Blessed Sacrament, are you speaking of communion or something else?? And I have also heard of Adoration, but Im not sure exactly what that is either as far as attending a service??
have a blessed day!

Hello Bible Believer
Here are two videos you can watch that explain what a Holy Hour in Adoration means for the Catholic Church.

Perpetual Adoration: One Hour with Jesus (Part 1)

Perpetual Adoration: One Hour with Jesus (Part 2)

Peace be with you.

 

[AlegreFe]

…
Nearly every parish offers Adoration. If not, they certainly should. It is there that I have seen amazing things happen in prayer. The Holy Hour is based on Christ’s words, when He asked the Apostles, “Could you not remain with me even one hour?” It is most certainly worth an hour’s time, if only to read scripture. May He bring you great inner peace.

bold emphasis mine - AlegreFe

This is so true. Christ’s words are eternal.

I was at Adoration one day with my daughter and all of a sudden I heard snoring. I cracked a smile when I heard that. I thought to myself, “aaww he must be so tired from a hard day’s work and yet he goes out of his way to come here to be with Jesus.”
It’s not a good idea to sleep during adoration. As long as it’s not your intention to go there to nap, it’s understandable if you happen to fall asleep. Just ask your guardian angel to finish your prayers for you in case you fall asleep.

When I heard the snoring (I thank God it was a “quiet” snore) I also thought of Peter, James & John falling asleep when Jesus asked them to watch for one hour with Him. The operative word is “watch” and not “remain” because to watch means to stay alert or awake. Jesus asked for them to “remain” with Him and “watch.”
Jesus to the three; “My soul is very sorrowful, even to death; remain here, and watch with me.” … “So, could you not watch with me one hour?.." (Mt 26:38, 40)

 

[peary]

As to Holy Hour, the parish priest will take bread that has been consecrated into the Eucharist. Devout Catholics fervently believe, as we are taught, that the Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ. Among other reasons, this is based on the words of Christ Himself in John 6 and as Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 11. The priest places the Sacrament into a fixture in which it becomes visible. It is then referred to as the “Monstrance”. The faithful gather, oftentimes around the clock, to adore Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. Many pray, while others may read scripture in His presence.

Nearly every parish offers Adoration. If not, they certainly should. It is there that I have seen amazing things happen in prayer. The Holy Hour is based on Christ’s words, when He asked the Apostles, “Could you not remain with me even one hour?” It is most certainly worth an hour’s time, if only to read scripture. May He bring you great inner peace.

Someone took an unofficial poll of our 8th graders with the question “What is Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament and Holy Hour?” Only 3 out of a class of 120 knew. So much for teaching the Faith at a Catholic school!

 

[AlegreFe]

Someone took an unofficial poll of our 8th graders with the question “What is Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament and Holy Hour?” Only 3 out of a class of 120 knew. So much for teaching the Faith at a Catholic school!

That’s right. That is why I pulled my daughter out of her school when she was to be in the 4th grade. She made her first Holy Communion there and that’s all that matters to me as far as being in that school. But I pulled her out because they did not teach the faith. She is now in the “8th grade” level. As far as her faith I would consider her past high school level.

 

[iGreg]

All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Matthew 13:34

Jesus often spoke in parables.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 1:12-14

One of Jesus’s name is the “Word”. His flesh is is shown in the communion service as symbolic of the Word of God, which is the Bible.

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John 6:63

The above verse in John comes right after the passage of the last supper.

The communion service is a ceremonial remembrance service for remembering the sacrifice of Jesus Christ who came to save His people from their sins.

My understanding of this is one of the reasons I stopped being a practicing Catholic and became an Protestant Christian.

 

[po18guy]

Matthew 13:34

Jesus often spoke in parables.

John 1:12-14

One of Jesus’s name is the “Word”. His flesh is is shown in the communion service as symbolic of the Word of God, which is the Bible.

John 6:63

The above verse in John comes right after the passage of the last supper.

The communion service is a ceremonial remembrance service for remembering the sacrifice of Jesus Christ who came to save His people from their sins.

My understanding of this is one of the reasons I stopped being a practicing Catholic and became an Protestant Christian.

Are you sure you were ever Catholic? I would like to know the name of the parish you were baptized in, the date of your baptism and the name of the priest who baptized you. Your post is distinctly suspicious.

 

[peary]

Matthew 13:34

My understanding of this is one of the reasons I stopped being a practicing Catholic and became an Protestant Christian.

I doubt that considerably. Probably the main reason you stopped being a practicing Catholic and turned to a protestant denomination is because you either didn’t agree with one or more of the Church’s teachings on a moral issue, or are engaged in a behavior that the Church teaches is wrong.

 

[mangy_dog]

Matthew 13:34

Jesus often spoke in parables.

John 1:12-14

One of Jesus’s name is the “Word”. His flesh is is shown in the communion service as symbolic of the Word of God, which is the Bible.

John 6:63

The above verse in John comes right after the passage of the last supper.

The communion service is a ceremonial remembrance service for remembering the sacrifice of Jesus Christ who came to save His people from their sins.

My understanding of this is one of the reasons I stopped being a practicing Catholic and became an Protestant Christian.

How anyone can exchange the Eucharist (true, real presence of Christ) for protestantism is beyond me.

I try to place myself in these people’s minds and …it scares me to my soul to even think of being without the Eucharist.

You’ve walked away from the Eucharist - Jesus Himself - and now you call yourself protestant christian?..you have nothing.

How sad.

Domine non sum dignus ut intres sub tectum meum, sed tantum dic verbum, et sanabitur anima mea.
That Roman Centurion can give you a valuable lesson of faith…

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Transubstantiation from a scriptural teaching:

Romans 4:16 For this reason, it depends on faith, so that it may be a gift, and the promise may be guaranteed to all his descendants, not to those who only adhere to the law but to those who follow the faith of Abraham, who is the father of all of us, 17 as it is written, “I have made you father of many nations.” He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed, **who gives life to the dead and calls into being what does not exist. **

John1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. What came to be 4
through him was life, and this life was the light of the human race; 5 the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. 8 who were born not by natural generation nor by human choice nor by a man’s decision but of God. 14
**And the Word became flesh 9 and made his dwelling among us, and we saw his glory, the glory as of the Father’s only Son, full of grace and truth. **

Jesus the Word of God made flesh spoke to the bread and wine that transubstantiates into his body,blood, soul and divinity. Because the Word of God creates that into existance what was not.

Matthew 26:26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and giving it to his disciples said, **“Take and eat; this is my body.” **27 Then he took a cup, gave thanks, 16 and gave it to them, saying, "**Drink from it, all of you, 28 for this is my blood of the covenant, **which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins.

Paul applies a curse to those who dont discern the body and blood of the Eucharist. And hands on the apostolic tradition of the Eucharist.

1 Cor.11:23 **For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus, on the night he was handed over, took bread, 24 and, after he had given thanks, broke it and said, “This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes. **27 **]Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. **28 A person should examine himself, 13 and so eat the bread and drink the cup. 29 For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment 14 on himself.

Faith in transubstantiation:
Hebrews 11:1 Faith is the realization of what is hoped for and evidence 2 of things not seen. 5 But without faith it is impossible to please him, for anyone who approaches God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

The first Mass after the resurrection:

Luke 24:27 **Then beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he interpreted to them what referred to him in all the scriptures.( **The liturgy of the Word) 28 As they approached the village to which they were going, he gave the impression that he was going on farther. 29 But they urged him, “Stay with us, for it is nearly evening and the day is almost over.” So he went in to stay with them. 30 And it happened that, while he was with them at table, he took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them.
31 With that their eyes were opened and they recognized him, but he vanished from their sight. ( the liturgy of the Eucharist, could this vanishing mean Jesus at the breaking of bread in his Word of God became the living bread from heaven, that he (vanished) transubstantiated into the bread and wine that become his body, blood, soul and divinity).

Either accept Jesus commands to eat his flesh or drink his blood, or you fulfill the prophecy of the prophets, belief in transubstantiation or not, either way, you will follow the will of God by his Word.
Matthew 13:13b because ‘they look but do not see and hear but do not listen or understand.’ 14 Isaiah’s prophecy is fulfilled in them, which says: ‘You shall indeed hear but not understand you shall indeed look but never see. 15 Gross is the heart of this people, they will hardly hear with their ears, they have closed their eyes, lest they see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and be converted, and I heal them.’ 16 **"But blessed are your eyes, because they see, and your ears, because they hear. 17 Amen, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it. **

Jesus the word of God made flesh:
Revelations 2:17 “Whoever has ears ought to hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the victor I shall give some of the hidden manna; 15 I shall also give a white amulet upon which is inscribed a new name, which no one knows except the one who receives it.”’

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I dont understand how many times does Jesus need to repeat himself, for you to have eternal life, just take him at his word, to eat his body and drink his blood. Thank God, Jesus wants us to enter into the eternal Spirit with him, by eating his flesh and blood and be partakers of his divinity. ( this is your Spirit meaning in John 6, not a symbolic Jesus, their is no symbolic Spirit in scripture)

2 Peter 1:3 His divine power has bestowed on us everything that makes for life and devotion, through the knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and power. 4
Through these, he has bestowed on us the precious and verygreat promises, **so that through them you may come to share in the divine nature, **

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets: ‘They shall all be taught by God.’ Everyone who listens to my Father and learns from him **comes to me. **. 47 Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 this is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world." 53 Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. 54 Whoever eats 19 my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, **whoever eats this bread will live forever." 59 **These things he said while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

 

[Steadfast]

I am astounded that Catholics will so often assume that the Real Presence as it is formulated in the Bible and in the writings of the fathers always necessarily equates to Transubstantiation and that they will continue to do so even after having been shown repeatedly that while Transubstantiation is one way of understanding a Real Presence it is by no means clear that even in the majority of the cases this is certainly what is meant.

Do I win today’s run-on sentence award?

 

[Steadfast]

I doubt that considerably. Probably the main reason you stopped being a practicing Catholic and turned to a protestant denomination is because you either didn’t agree with one or more of the Church’s teachings on a moral issue, or are engaged in a behavior that the Church teaches is wrong.

How can you possibly know this?

If you expect to be taken at your word you should probably think about extending the same courtesy to others.

 

[Steadfast]

I am refreshed.

One more time:

1. Lutherans and Catholics believe in the Real Presence.
2. The key element of Transubstantiation; i.e. what makes it Transubstantiation, is the belief that the substance of bread and wine are exchanged for the body and blood of Jesus.

Again, Transubstantiation doesn’t just mean that the bread and wine are the body and blood, it means that they are body and blood and that bread and wine aren’t there anymore.

This latter is what Lutherans dispute.

I do not pretend to be a patristics scholar but I have read enough on this issue to know that they don’t go this far. They ALL say that the Eucharist is the true and real Body and Blood of Jesus (which both Lutherans and Catholics say), but only Cyril even comes close to going beyond this to saying that the bread and wine are no longer there except in appearance.

ANd this is all I was getting at.

 

[peary]

How can you possibly know this?

If you expect to be taken at your word you should probably think about extending the same courtesy to others.

Because, Steadfast, those are the reasons people leave the Church. It is because - either poor catechesis, a major disagreement with a moral teaching of the Church, or a behavior the person leaving is engaged in that is considered wrong by the Church. ‘Practicing’ Catholic Christians don’t leave the Church. Can you think of other reasons?

 

[Steadfast]

Because, Steadfast, those are the reasons people leave the Church. It is because - either poor catechesis, a major disagreement with a moral teaching of the Church, or a behavior the person leaving is engaged in that is considered wrong by the Church. ‘Practicing’ Catholic Christians don’t leave the Church. Can you think of other reasons?

Yes, I can.

 

[peary]

Yes, I can.

And?

 

[Steadfast]

My own reason:

I became convinced that the Roman Catholic Church obscures the clear and simple Gospel of Jesus by teaching that good works are, along with faith, salvifically meritorious.

There were other things as well but none of them had anything to do with the quality of my catechesis as a Catholic or with moral issues. As a rule I continue to agree with Catholic moral teaching.

Also, I never had a problem with being held morally accountable to these standards, I loved confession and earnestly pray that my Lutheran brethren would seek to revive the practice.

 

[peary]

My own reason:

I became convinced that the Roman Catholic Church obscures the clear and simple Gospel of Jesus by teaching that good works are, along with faith, salvifically meritorious.

There were other things as well but none of them had anything to do with the quality of my catechesis as a Catholic or with moral issues. As a rule I continue to agree with Catholic moral teaching.

Also, I never had a problem with being held morally accountable to these standards, I loved confession and earnestly pray that my Lutheran brethren would seek to revive the practice.

That says nothing, actually.
That Faith without works is established quite firmly in Scripture is not open for disagreement.
So, what were the ‘other’ things that are so mysterious?

 

[Steadfast]

That says nothing, actually.
That Faith without works is established quite firmly in Scripture is not open for disagreement.
So, what were the ‘other’ things that are so mysterious?

Works prove faith, faith does works and without works any faith which would claim the name is dead and therefore no faith at all.

This is what Scripture teaches and is quite different than what your church teaches. It remains the central reason why I left.

 

[Believe_85]

Works prove faith, faith does works and without works any faith which would claim the name is dead and therefore no faith at all.

This is what Scripture teaches and is quite different than what your church teaches. It remains the central reason why I left.

What you said above is what Catholics believe too. You’re Lutheran? Did you know that the Lutheran church met with the Catholic church recently and both agreed that this is what the Catholic church has always taught and the two believe the same thing…all this quibbling was a huge misunderstanding and Lutherans are finally taking our word for it.