Purgatory**HELP!**

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Remember that captivity, bondage or prison is connected to serving sin. Are the dead now serving sin? Are the dead now in prison? No! “For he that is dead is freed from sin.” Romans 6:7. The dead are not in prison, they are free. They are asleep and have no knowledge either good or bad (Ecclesiastes 9:5). Though condemned at this moment even the vilest of sinners is at rest from sin. He is asleep in the grave. At the close of time when the wicked are brought before the judgment bar of God they will be utterly destroyed by fire, which is the second death. Jesus came to set the captives free. In the end all men are set free from the bondage of sin. The righteous with eternal life. The wicked with eternal death. Yet all men are “freed from sin.”

The context to Peter’s words is clearly that these spirits in prison are the people who lived just before the flood. Peter said that Jesus had died and that he was, “quickened (resurrected) by the Spirit: By which (the Holy Spirit) also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison.” It was by the Holy Spirit that Jesus preached unto these men. “And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.” Genesis 6:3. It is the testimony of scripture that the Holy Spirit strove with these men during the final 120 years just before the flood.

Was the gospel of the death of Jesus Christ for the sins of the world preached during this time? Absolutely, for a certainty it was. Jesus was “the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.” John 1:29. All the patriarchs in the Old Testament built altars and sacrificed the burnt offering of a lamb. They did this because they believed that the Messiah would one day offer Himself as a sacrifice for the sins of the world. Abel’s sacrifice was accepted because it was a symbol of the Lamb of God, Cane’s offering was not accepted because it was an offering of his own works. Before the flood, men had knowledge of Christ the “seed” that would come through the woman (Genesis 3:15). Later this promise was made to Abraham that Christ would come through his seed. “In thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.” Genesis 22:18. “Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.” Galatians 3:16.

By faith Abraham built his altar and offered a lamb every place he went. He understood that God would one day give His only begotten Son to be the Lamb of God after God said, “Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.” Genesis 22:2. Noah understood the gospel that Christ would die for the sins of the world as the Lamb of God. “And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.” The sacrifices of bullocks and sheep did not begin with Moses and the people of Israel. It began at the Garden of Eden. God sacrificed a lamb before Adam and Eve, and “God make coats of skins, and clothed them.” Genesis 3:21. For Jesus is “the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” Revelation 13:8.
 
Let us remember that “spirits in prison” is referring to a time when these men were alive. The dead are not now in bondage to sin because, “he that is dead is freed from sin.” These men heard the gospel about the coming Messiah who would die as the Lamb of God for the sins of the world through the preaching of Noah. Yes, Noah was a preacher. The LORD “saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness.” 2 Peter 2:5. The Holy Spirit preached the gospel unto the antediluvians through Noah. “Holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.” Noah was a “preacher of righteousness.” He preached Christ! “But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference.” Romans 3:21,22.

John Wesley, founder of the Methodist Church, about four hundred years ago recognized this to be the only true interpretation of 1 Peter 3:19. Notice what he had to say about this scripture. “Verse 19. By which Spirit he preached-Through the ministry of Noah. To the spirits in prison-The unholy men before the flood, who were then reserved by the justice of God, as in a prison, till he executed the sentence upon them all; and are now also reserved to the judgment of the great day.” John Wesley’s Commentary on the Bible.

For one hundred and twenty years the Holy Spirit strove with the antediluvian people through the righteous preaching of Noah. He had pleaded with men to accept the coming Messiah by faith, and to accept the only plan of salvation by getting inside the ark before it was forever too late. When the door of the ark was shut by the hand of God’s angel the probation of every man outside its walls had forever ended. They had committed the unpardonable sin. They hardened their own heart through persistent sin, and grieved the Holy Spirit. God is longsuffering and will not bring judgment unless all hope for salvation is forever lost. They heard the Word of God through the preaching of Noah. Jesus said that if a person would not listen to the Word of God, “neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.” Luke 16:31. Were Christ to have been raised from His death at the Cross to go preach to these souls it would have been vain. They had already rejected the pleading of the Holy Spirit beseeching them to accept the Lamb of God, and as a sign of faith get inside the Ark.

Noah told men that the world was going to be destroyed by a flood of water, and that their only hope of salvation was to get inside a massive boat that he was constructing as a direct commandment of God. Today the message to be given is that the world is about to be destroyed by fire at the glorious coming of Jesus. “And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.” 2 Thessalonians 2:8. The only hope of salvation today is not a boat. It is the resurrection of the dead, in which the living and the dead Christians will be changed into incorruptible, and immortality bodies. Peter was not telling us about a mystical spirit ministry at the death of Christ at all. In the context of his statement, it is clearly seen that the whole reason Peter referred to the flood was to tell us that the resurrection is our only hope of Salvation just like the Ark was for the Antediluvians. To demonstrate our faith that Jesus was raised from the dead, and that we believed He also had power to raise us from the dead, we were to be baptized. “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.” Romans 6:3,5.

“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.” 1 Peter 3:18-22.
 
Now let’s look at Matt. 12:32

“Mat 12:32 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him neither in this world, nor in the world to come.”

I wasn’t aware that purgatory was a world that was yet to come. I thought catholicism has taught purgatory was physical place since the dark ages. I know positively that purgatory was an issue addressed in the reformation. So if it was supposed to be a physical place then it would be impossible for it to be yet to come. Which world is yet to come?

Rev 21:1 I saw a new heaven and a new earth. For the first heaven and the first earth was gone: and the sea is now no more.”

“2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. “

Christ is clearly pointing out if we blaspheme the Holy Ghost there is no forgiveness and you will lose any possibility of salvation. So we can see this passage has no relevance to the subject either.
 
Now let’s look at Hebrews 12 :1 again. Who are the witnesses? First if we look up the the word witnesses in verse 1 it means “witness, martyr” now let’s look at the verses preceding chapter 12

“
Heb 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again. But others were racked, not accepting deliverance, that they might find a better resurrection.
Heb 11:36 And others had trial of mockeries and stripes: moreover also of bands and prisons.
Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were cut asunder, they were tempted, they were put to death by the sword, they wandered about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being in want, distressed, afflicted:
Heb 11:38 Of whom the world was not worthy: wandering in deserts, in mountains and in dens and in caves of the earth.
Heb 11:39 And all these, being approved by the testimony of faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God providing some better thing for us, that they should not be perfected without us.
Heb 12:1 And therefore we also having so great a cloud of witnesses over our head, laying aside every weight and sin which surrounds us, let us run by patience to the fight proposed to us:
Heb 12:2 Looking on Jesus, the author and finisher of faith, who, having joy set before him, endured the cross, despising the shame, and now sitteth on the right hand of the throne of God.
Heb 12:3 For think diligently upon him that endured such opposition from sinners against himself that you be not wearied, fainting in your minds.
Heb 12:4 For you have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. “

As can be clearly seen even without checking the greek here the witnesses are the martyrs that had died for Christ. Paul is exhorting believers to set aside sin and even points out that we have not resisted sin to the point that the witnesses or martyrs did. To try and use this to prove purgatory is really amazing. That is clearly way out of context with the passage!
 
The reference to Mat.17 and Luke 9 have absolutely nothing to do with the subject of soul sleep or purgatory. I see nowhere in either passage where anyone died. To try and tie those in with this topic is really astounding to me. Christ had nor been crucified yet. Elijah was taken to heaven without seeing deathas we see in 2 kings chapter 2. Moses died but was resurrected as we see in Jude

“ Jud 1:9 When Michael the archangel, disputing with the devil, contended about the body of Moses, he durst not bring against him the judgment of railing speech, but said: The Lord command thee”

As we can see these two passages have nothing to do with this topic.
 
1 Cor 3:15.

If we look at the whole chapter of 1 cor 3 we see that it is addressing the issue of church planting. Paul specifically talks about evangelists and pastors and their roles.

“1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God that is given to me, as a wise architect, I have laid the foundation: and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon”.

Paul had laid the foundation for the church in Corinth and Apollo had built on the foundation Paul had laid as we clearly see if we read the chapter from the beginning to verse 10. So it can clearly be seen that when Paul is referring to building he is referring to the building of churches.

“1Co 3:11 For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid: which is Christ Jesus.
1Co 3:12 Now, if any man build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble: “

Here we see Paul referring to the kind of building the pastors and evangelists would do. Gold silver for the pure humble and Godly who follow God’s will and wood, hay, stubble etc. for the building of ones own ideas. Instead of following what God had revealed.

“1Co 3:13 Every man’s work shall be manifest. For the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire. And the fire shall try every man’s work, of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man’s work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any mans work burn, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire. “

Every pastors work would be manifest at the “day of the Lord” What is the “day of the Lord? When is the day of the Lord?

“Mal 4:1 For behold the day shall come kindled as a furnace: and all the proud, and all that do wickedly shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall set them on fire, saith the Lord of hosts, it shall not leave them root, nor branch.
Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name, the Sun of justice shall arise, and health in his wings: and you shall go forth, and shall leap like calves of the herd.
Mal 4:3 And you shall tread down the wicked when they shall be ashes under the sole of your feet in the day that I do this, saith the Lord of hosts.
Mal 4:4 Remember the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel, the precepts, and judgments.
Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elias the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful DAY OF THE LORD.”

“2Pe 3:10 But the DAY OF THE LORD will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

“Rev 20:9 And there cane down fire from God out of heaven and devoured them: and the devil, who seduced them, was cast into the pool of fire and brimstone, where both the beast
Rev 20:10 And the false prophet shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne and one sitting upon it, from whose face the earth and heaven fled away: and there was no place found for them
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing in the presence of the throne. And the books were opened: and another book was opened, which was the book of life. And the dead were judged by those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it: and death and hell gave up their dead that were in them. And they were judged, every one according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And hell and death were cast into the pool of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the pool of fire.”

“Rev 22:11 He that hurteth, let him hurt still: and he that is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is just, let him be justified still: and he that is holy, let him be sanctified still.
Rev 22:12 Behold, I come quickly: and my reward is with me, to render to every, man according to his works.”
 
As we can see anything that is not of God will be burne when Christ comes . If a pastor builds a church on faulty theology his work will be destroyed at the judgement day but if his motives were sincere he will barely escape the fire. It is very clear that there is NO reward until Christ returns! Which agrees with 1 cor 3:13 which says at the day of the Lord all works will be manifest. This makes it an impossibility for this passage to mean there is a purgatory because this is clearly in reference to a FUTURE event!

“ Ecc 12:14 And all things that are done, God will bring into judgment for every error, whether it be good or evil.”
Note it says “WILL BRING” not has brought… future event!

“Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: “

“2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad”

“Joh 5:25 Amen, amen, I say unto you, that the hour cometh, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself, so he hath given to the Son also to have life in himself.
Joh 5:27 And he hath given him power to do judgment, because he is the Son of man.
Joh 5:28 Wonder not at this: for the hour cometh wherein all that are in the graves shall hear the voice of the Son of God.
Joh 5:29 And they that have done good things shall come forth unto the resurrection of life: but they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment”.

“Joh 11:23 Jesus saith to her: Thy brother shall rise again.
Joh 11:24 Martha saith to him: I know that he shall rise again, in the resurrection at the last day.”

“Rev 22:12 Behold, I come quickly: and my reward is with me, to render to every, man according to his works.”

Note both the wicked and the righteous receive their reward when at the when Christ comes again! Not before, nowhere in scripture do we see precedence that the reward is given before the judgement. That doesn’t even make logical sense. As we can see to use 1 cor 3 as a key text for purgatory is taking it out of it’s context! God bless!
 
Church Militant wrote

“No you don’t, and especially not in the OT. It’s just not there…as even your “proof texts” show.

Either way…your texts only prove the same thing that I said all along. The OT Jews and even modern Jews today…do not believe in a resurrection of the dead.”

Thank you for your clarification of what Christ was teaching

Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Joh 11:12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
Joh 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Joh 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Joh 11:39 Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days.
Joh 11:44 And presently he that had been dead came forth, bound feet and hands with winding bands. And his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus said to them: Loose him and let him go.”

Church Militant wrote

“ Joh 11:12 His disciples therefore said: Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
Not what it was talking about. They. like most people assumed that he was resting and sleeping to regain his strength. It’s plain that that is what that verse means.”

Is it really illogical to assert that most thought that Lazarus was merely asleep when he had been in the grave for four days and begun to stink don’t you think? Also we see that Martha believed in the resurrection in accordance with Christ’s teachings and in spite of the faulty theology of the day in which most believed. Why was Lazarus wrapped in grave clothing if he were merely resting as was asserted in your previous post?

Church militant wrote

“And it’s quite plain that you have forced your own errant interpretation onto this passage instead of following what the verses actually say.
Quote:
Here Christ taught explicitly that death was sleep.
"Mat 9:24 He said: Give place, for the girl is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn. "
A complete misstatement as to what the Lord was saying. The fact is that He had already raised her and that all he had to do was awaken her. I’ve always known that from that passage.”

What basis have you assumed this position on? Because that context is plainly not there whatsoever in English or in the Greek. I am following what the verses say explicitly. If you can show me which verse tells us that Christ had already raised her it would clear up my confusion. Interestingly enough the word “dead” in all three of these passages from the Greek mean literally death, dead, to die The word sleep means literally to lay down to rest or to fall asleep.

Mar 5:39 And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.
Mar 5:40 And they laughed him to scorn…
Luk 8:52 And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.
Luk 8:53 And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead.

Church Militant wrote

“Yeah but the vast majority of Jews followed the Sadducee’s teachings and still do today. My point is that based on the OT alone (what is that called “Sola Old Testamentum”?) one comes away with the idea that there is no resurrection. Why? Be cause the authors that wrote it did not understand that.”

Since the OT jews did not believe in soul sleep by your own admission this explains why they laughed our Lord to scorn when He taught a true Biblical doctrine 🙂 Christ was trying to point out their error and they laughed Him to scorn for it! I honestly don’t think the condition the church was in at the time of Christ warrants a belief which they shared. They had apostatized to the point they said Christ cast out demons by satans power. Were they correct in this assumption also?

“Mar 3:22 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils. “

They had apostatized to the point they crucified the Lamb of God. Repeatedly yelling for Pilate to crucify Him!

“Mar 15:13 But they again cried out: Crucify him.”

To try and use beliefs in Christs time as a prerequisite for doctrine is very shaky ground as we can see. Especially when we see Christ trying to rectify the false doctrine of the immortal soul.
I appreciate your explanation as to the reason the Jews were laughing Christ to scorn. You shed some light on the subject. Thank you! As we can see the doctrine of purgatory is unscriptural. I honestly think you should rethink your position on this doctrine as we can see the clear and explicit Biblical doctrine of souls sleep!
God bless! :)
 
VociMike said:
Then you must believe that you are perfect and without sin and without inclination to sin at the moment you die. If you died right now, are you perfect, without sin and without any inclination to sin? If you are not, you cannot enter heaven without being made so. There are no sinners or wanna-be sinners roaming about in heaven. God’s making one thus perfected is purgatory. Why this great objection to God finishing up the work of our perfection at the time of our death? I repeat, why this great objection? I simply cannot fathom the resistance to it. Why be so afraid to acknowledge this final mercy of God? :eek:
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  1. Hebrews 10:14 KJV 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
What does this mean?
  1. Who are those written in the Lamb’s Book of Life?
Revelation 21:27 KJV 27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
  1. What is the meaning of this passage?
John 13:7-10 KJV 7 Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter. 8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me. 9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. 10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.
 
praise_Him said:
As we can see anything that is not of God will be burne when Christ comes . If a pastor builds a church on faulty theology his work will be destroyed at the judgement day but if his motives were sincere he will barely escape the fire. It is very clear that there is NO reward until Christ returns! Which agrees with 1 cor 3:13 which says at the day of the Lord all works will be manifest. This makes it an impossibility for this passage to mean there is a purgatory because this is clearly in reference to a FUTURE event!

“ Ecc 12:14 And all things that are done, God will bring into judgment for every error, whether it be good or evil.”
Note it says “WILL BRING” not has brought… future event!

“Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: “

“2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad”

“Joh 5:25 Amen, amen, I say unto you, that the hour cometh, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself, so he hath given to the Son also to have life in himself.
Joh 5:27 And he hath given him power to do judgment, because he is the Son of man.
Joh 5:28 Wonder not at this: for the hour cometh wherein all that are in the graves shall hear the voice of the Son of God.
Joh 5:29 And they that have done good things shall come forth unto the resurrection of life: but they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment”.

“Joh 11:23 Jesus saith to her: Thy brother shall rise again.
Joh 11:24 Martha saith to him: I know that he shall rise again, in the resurrection at the last day.”

“Rev 22:12 Behold, I come quickly: and my reward is with me, to render to every, man according to his works.”

Note both the wicked and the righteous receive their reward when at the when Christ comes again! Not before, nowhere in scripture do we see precedence that the reward is given before the judgement. That doesn’t even make logical sense. As we can see to use 1 cor 3 as a key text for purgatory is taking it out of it’s context! God bless!
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I agree. 1 Cor. 3 isn’t that good of an explanation. Most of what Catholics gather on purgatory comes from the Old Testament, mostly from Maccabbees. Then again, Paul himself prayed for a friend who died. Why did he pray for that person? Most likey he was in purgatory.
 
Also, Praise Him, you keep refering to the dead as being free from sin. Hmmm. Isn’t God the God of the Living, not the dead?
 
Also, Praise Him, you keep refering to the dead as being free from sin. Hmmm. Isn’t God the God of the Living, not the dead?
 
*Quote:
Originally Posted by VociMike
Then you must believe that you are perfect and without sin and without inclination to sin at the moment you die. If you died right now, are you perfect, without sin and without any inclination to sin? If you are not, you cannot enter heaven without being made so. There are no sinners or wanna-be sinners roaming about in heaven. God’s making one thus perfected is purgatory. Why this great objection to God finishing up the work of our perfection at the time of our death? I repeat, why this great objection? I simply cannot fathom the resistance to it. Why be so afraid to acknowledge this final mercy of God? *
  1. Hebrews 10:14 KJV 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
What does this mean?
  1. Who are those written in the Lamb’s Book of Life?
Revelation 21:27 KJV 27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
  1. What is the meaning of this passage?
John 13:7-10 KJV 7 Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter. 8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me. 9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. 10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.
 
Psa 49:7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
 
Michael_Francis said:
Okay…I’m going to step in here and clarify something that some of you are messing up on and then go back and try to fix some of the posted problems.

The relevant parts of the Forum Rules are highlighted in red.
MF
Let’s see that we all observe these rules from now on./QUOTE
You deleted alot of posts that were not from any website. why? I know the owner of the loudcry website. I asked him for information on that passage due to the volume of passages submitted to me and I am very short on time during the week. This is what he submitted to me. I was not aware that it was copyrighted and would not have posted without going through the appropriate channels if I had. I would like to ask why you deleted all other posts also other than the one directly addressed to a member on the forums. They are from my own studies. So I am curious as to why perfectly legitmate posts are being deleted? if we could clear this up it would be greatly appreciated God bless! I will repost my posts and contact the owner of the Loudcry webstite to as his permission to us his article on 1Peter 3&4
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I will take each verse you posted and address them each in a separate post due to the lengthy nature and for simplicities sake The reference to Mat.17 and Luke 9 have absolutely nothing to do with the subject of soul sleep or purgatory. I see nowhere in either passage where anyone died. To try and tie those in with this topic is really astounding to me. Christ had nor been crucified yet. Elijah was taken to heaven without seeing deathas we see in 2 kings chapter 2. Moses died but was resurrected as we see in Jude

“ Jud 1:9 When Michael the archangel, disputing with the devil, contended about the body of Moses, he durst not bring against him the judgment of railing speech, but said: The Lord command thee”

As we can see these two passages have nothing to do with this topic.
 
Now let’s look at Hebrews 12 :1 again. Who are the witnesses? First if we look up the the word witnesses in verse 1 it means “witness, martyr” now let’s look at the verses preceding chapter 12

“
Heb 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again. But others were racked, not accepting deliverance, that they might find a better resurrection.
Heb 11:36 And others had trial of mockeries and stripes: moreover also of bands and prisons.
Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were cut asunder, they were tempted, they were put to death by the sword, they wandered about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being in want, distressed, afflicted:
Heb 11:38 Of whom the world was not worthy: wandering in deserts, in mountains and in dens and in caves of the earth.
Heb 11:39 And all these, being approved by the testimony of faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God providing some better thing for us, that they should not be perfected without us.
Heb 12:1 And therefore we also having so great a cloud of witnesses over our head, laying aside every weight and sin which surrounds us, let us run by patience to the fight proposed to us:
Heb 12:2 Looking on Jesus, the author and finisher of faith, who, having joy set before him, endured the cross, despising the shame, and now sitteth on the right hand of the throne of God.
Heb 12:3 For think diligently upon him that endured such opposition from sinners against himself that you be not wearied, fainting in your minds.
Heb 12:4 For you have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. “

As can be clearly seen even without checking the greek here the witnesses are the martyrs that had died for Christ. Paul is exhorting believers to set aside sin and even points out that we have not resisted sin to the point that the witnesses or martyrs did. To try and use this to prove purgatory is really amazing. That is clearly way out of context with the passage!
 
Now let’s look at Matt. 12:32

“Mat 12:32 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him neither in this world, nor in the world to come.”

I wasn’t aware that purgatory was a world that was yet to come. I thought catholicism has taught purgatory was physical place since the dark ages. I know positively that purgatory was an issue addressed in the reformation. So if it was supposed to be a physical place then it would be impossible for it to be yet to come. Which world is yet to come?

Rev 21:1 I saw a new heaven and a new earth. For the first heaven and the first earth was gone: and the sea is now no more.”

“2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. “

Christ is clearly pointing out if we blaspheme the Holy Ghost there is no forgiveness and you will lose any possibility of salvation. So we can see this passage has no relevance to the subject either
 
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