Purgatory question

[peary]

Why, if Jesus died on the cross for our sins to take away our sins, why would we go to Purgatory?

**Purgatory actually isn’t a ‘place’. It’s the state of a soul after death. Some souls experience a purification of sin after death, and this spiritual experience is referred to as purgatory.

There are two parts to sin - one is guilt, the other is temporal. It’s like someone who steals your car. If you know who the person is, you can forgive him, but would you let him keep your car? Or, because he broke the law, he should not do any time or be punished in any way?

That is how sin is. There is a residual element to it. Those sins which we have not confessed, those which we have forgotten or unaware of prior to death, these are what need purification before we enter heaven. We are with the Lord after death, but I think of it as various degrees of experiencing his love. And I think it is the experience of his love which purifies those of us who have to experience purification after death.**

 

[Feedmysheep]

Bump.

I’m still waiting for Frinjaa’s take on final sanctification.

 

[peary]

I have a view that purgatory is pain spent, rather than time spent. Since you are outside of time when you pass into the spirit realm, there must be another way of purification. I see pain, similar to the pain of strenuous exercise to correct for an injury. Think spiritual therapy instead of physical therapy.

But, how truly painful can it be? Those in purgatory are en route to heaven. I imagine being purified just outside the gates, knowing that I must pay the price for any remaining sin, but yet I am able to look through the gates into paradise! How bad can that be?

Christ’s peace be with you.

In psychology, we have the conscious and unconcious mind. I believe that both have the ability to think and rationalize, and perhaps after we pass on from this life, we are left with dealing with our unconscious and everything in there. This indeed would be a purification, especially since it doesn’t forget a thing we do in life.

 

[justasking4]

I don’t understand why there is so much concern over purgatory since there are a couple of promises made that a catholic won’t have to spend much time there if they do certain things. Here are a couple of promises that if followed will not result in much or anytime in purgatory;

Here is what one the promises claims:
Our Lord told St. Gertrude the Great, that the following prayer would release 1,000 souls from Purgatory each time it is said. The prayer was extended to include living sinners which would alleviate the indebtedness accrued to them during their lives.

Eternal Father,
I offer Thee the Most Precious Blood of Thy Divine Son, Jesus,
in union with the Masses said throughout the world today,
for all the Holy Souls in Purgatory,
for sinners everywhere,
for sinners in the Universal Church,
those in my own home and within my family.
Amen.

The other promise comes from the Sabbatine Privilege and Brown Scapular

"The wearing the Scapular is the Sabbatine Privilege. This concerns a promise made by Our Lady to Pope John XXII. In a papal letter he issued, he recounted a vision that he had had. He stated that the Blessed Virgin had said to him in this vision, concerning those who wear the Brown Scapular: “I, the Mother of Grace, shall descend on the Saturday after their death and whomsoever I shall find in Purgatory, I shall free, so that I may lead them to the holy mountain of life everlasting.”

If these 2 promises are true why doesn’t the catholic church promote these so that all catholics will know them and practice them?

 

[Feedmysheep]

I don’t understand why there is so much concern over purgatory since there are a couple of promises made that a catholic won’t have to spend much time there if they do certain things. -snip-

But those are all PRIVATE revelations. Private revelations, even those approved by the Church are not the same as PUBLIC revelation, which ended with the death of the last Apostle. That means the faithful are not bound to believe in them. That means that, although they do not contradict Church teachings, they are not necessarily TRUE.

 

[peary]

As Catholics we believe that on the last day, the dead shall be raised. Hmmm. Where are they raised from?
Purgatory.

There are two judgements:
The particular judgement: Heaven or Hell. Saved or Damned.
Eternal life or eternal punishment.
And the Last Judgement (Judgement Day) (When Christ returns)

Actually, on the last day when the dead (bodies) are raised and united with their souls, all bodies will be reconstituted and raised from the earth. Souls, wherever they may be at the time, will be joined to those bodies and then the whole person will unite in either Heaven or Hell. That is the way I understand Catholic doctrine.

 

[justasking4]

Originally Posted by justasking4
I don’t understand why there is so much concern over purgatory since there are a couple of promises made that a catholic won’t have to spend much time there if they do certain things. -snip-

Feedmysheep
But those are all PRIVATE revelations. Private revelations, even those approved by the Church are not the same as PUBLIC revelation, which ended with the death of the last Apostle. That means the faithful are not bound to believe in them. That means that, although they do not contradict Church teachings, they are not necessarily TRUE.

How could they not be necessarily TRUE if the catholic church supports them?

 

[NotWorthy]

How could they not be necessarily TRUE if the catholic church supports them?

The Church supports the fact that prayer for the dead is beneficial. The Church does NOT know, however, how long one is in Purgatory or numerous specifics about Purgatory.

If these 2 promises are true why doesn’t the catholic church promote these so that all catholics will know them and practice them?

Because the Church hasn’t authenticated 100% that they are true.

You’ll find that when it comes to apparitions and private revelations, there is no greater skeptic than the Catholic Church… uh, except for maybe Jack Chick. He doubts all things Catholic, or *universal *for that matter, just to cover himself.

 

[justasking4]

Originally Posted by justasking4
How could they not be necessarily TRUE if the catholic church supports them?

NotWorthy
The Church supports the fact that prayer for the dead is beneficial. The Church does NOT know, however, how long one is in Purgatory or numerous specifics about Purgatory.

The church may not know how long someone is there but evidently these promises tells us that a person would not have to be in there for long.
Is not the Brown Scapluar and the prayer of Saint Gertrude supported by the church? Has the church ever condemned these things?

Secondly, if they have not condemned these things why does it not promote these things? Why not get the word out to all catholics to pray this prayer of Saint Gertrude so that purgatory could be emptied?

 

[NotWorthy]

The church may not know how long someone is there but evidently these promises tells us that a person would not have to be in there for long.
Is not the Brown Scapluar and the prayer of Saint Gertrude supported by the church? Has the church ever condemned these things?

Secondly, if they have not condemned these things why does it not promote these things? Why not get the word out to all catholics to pray this prayer of Saint Gertrude so that purgatory could be emptied?

I think you’ll find I appended my answer. Does that answer your question, or do I need more info?

 

[NotWorthy]

The church may not know how long someone is there but evidently these promises tells us that a person would not have to be in there for long.
Is not the Brown Scapluar and the prayer of Saint Gertrude supported by the church? Has the church ever condemned these things?

I have no clue if the Church has ever condemned these things or not. I really could care less. I know that prayers for the dead are beneficial. I even offer up prayers for Protestant souls since they have none of their family and friends praying for their souls (which I find very sad).

Secondly, if they have not condemned these things why does it not promote these things? Why not get the word out to all catholics to pray this prayer of Saint Gertrude so that purgatory could be emptied?

Because, until the Church knows for sure whether something is 100% true, She won’t claim that it is 100% true. In the meantime, the Church teaches us to offer up prayers for the dead souls in Purgatory.

 

[teentruthseeker]

Actually, on the last day when the dead (bodies) are raised and united with their souls, all bodies will be reconstituted and raised from the earth. Souls, wherever they may be at the time, will be joined to those bodies and then the whole person will unite in either Heaven or Hell. That is the way I understand Catholic doctrine.

wait so… what if you are alive on earth when that happens and you are not pure, would you go to heaven?

 

[teentruthseeker]

But those are all PRIVATE revelations. Private revelations, even those approved by the Church are not the same as PUBLIC revelation, which ended with the death of the last Apostle. That means the faithful are not bound to believe in them. That means that, although they do not contradict Church teachings, they are not necessarily TRUE.

So if they are approved by the Church wouldn’t that make them Church teaching?

i dont understand

whats the difference between private and public rebelations?

 

[Feedmysheep]

So if they are approved by the Church wouldn’t that make them Church teaching?

i dont understand

whats the difference between private and public rebelations?

Public revelation is all that was revealed to us by Jesus and the Apostles, and is binding on all the faithful. That means, for example, that since Jesus commanded us to baptize, and in a particular way (“In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit”), the faithful are bound to believe in the effectiveness of the action, and do it.

Public revelation ended with the death of the last Apostle, St. John the Beloved.

Private revelation is that which was been revealed after that point, and to particular individuals. Private revelation, if approved by the Church, is binding ONLY to the individual who received it. In other words, at Fatima, for instance, when Our Lady asked the three children to pray the Rosary daily, that was binding on them. It is not binding on any other member of the Church.

Is the Rosary good for us? Absolutely. Are we sinning if we don’t say it? No.

Is Baptism good for us? Absolutely. Are we sinning if we don’t receive it? Well, we remain in the state of Original Sin, so in a sense, yes.

Once the Church approves Private revelation it simply means that there is nothing contained in the message that is contrary to Church teaching, and that the Faithful MAY, if they wish, engage in it. It doesn’t mean that it becomes “Church teaching” in the same way that Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, or the Magisterium does.

Hope that makes sense. Here’s an article if you still have questions:
catholic.com/library/Private_Revelation.asp

 

[peary]

Originally Posted by **justasking4 **
Secondly, if they have not condemned these things why does it not promote these things? Why not get the word out to all catholics to pray this prayer of Saint Gertrude so that purgatory could be emptied?

**Because Purgatory isn’t a place. It’s the possible state of a soul after death. **

 

[justasking4]

Originally Posted by **justasking4 **
Secondly, if they have not condemned these things why does it not promote these things? Why not get the word out to all catholics to pray this prayer of Saint Gertrude so that purgatory could be emptied?

**Because Purgatory isn’t a place. It’s the possible state of a soul after death. **

Whatever purgatory is— be it a place or condition the promise is that a catholic would be released relatively shortly by this prayer.

 

[justasking4]

Public revelation is all that was revealed to us by Jesus and the Apostles, and is binding on all the faithful. That means, for example, that since Jesus commanded us to baptize, and in a particular way (“In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit”), the faithful are bound to believe in the effectiveness of the action, and do it.

Public revelation ended with the death of the last Apostle, St. John the Beloved.

Private revelation is that which was been revealed after that point, and to particular individuals. Private revelation, if approved by the Church, is binding ONLY to the individual who received it. In other words, at Fatima, for instance, when Our Lady asked the three children to pray the Rosary daily, that was binding on them. It is not binding on any other member of the Church.

Is the Rosary good for us? Absolutely. Are we sinning if we don’t say it? No.

Is Baptism good for us? Absolutely. Are we sinning if we don’t receive it? Well, we remain in the state of Original Sin, so in a sense, yes.

Once the Church approves Private revelation it simply means that there is nothing contained in the message that is contrary to Church teaching, and that the Faithful MAY, if they wish, engage in it. It doesn’t mean that it becomes “Church teaching” in the same way that Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, or the Magisterium does.

Hope that makes sense. Here’s an article if you still have questions:
catholic.com/library/Private_Revelation.asp

Are these private revelations part of the Traditions of the church?

Are they also part of what is called something like “the fullness of the truth” that is found only in the catholic church?

 

[NotWorthy]

Whatever purgatory is— be it a place or condition the promise is that a catholic would be released relatively shortly by this prayer.

The prayers of the righteous are powerful indeed!!!

I have no problem with this promise.

 

[NotWorthy]

Are these private revelations part of the Traditions of the church?

Dogma’s are part of “Traditions” of the Church.

“traditions” of the Church are changeable, but “Traditions” aren’t.

Are they also part of what is called something like “the fullness of the truth” that is found only in the catholic church?

The Fullness of the Truth IS the Catholic Church. They include (but are not limited to) dogmas, disciplines and tradition.

 

[mangy_dog]

If one is able to fornicate while, at the same moments, think about God’s truth, I am not convinced that they have truly given their lives over to God.

Do you not believe God has the power to forgive those who ask for it with one event?

Let me ask you Frinjaaaaaa.,

Are you sinless at this precise moment?

(whenever you see this message, it will still be applicable so - feel free to answer it as if it were current).