Actually, I saw no trying there.
There were several pretty clear biblical passages that teach the doctrine of purgatory.
There were several pretty clear biblical passages that teach the doctrine of purgatory.
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nogames
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Actually, I saw no trying there.
There were several pretty clear biblical passages that teach the doctrine of purgatory.
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I have an idea. Try polling a fairly large number of Mormons, with the question, “Was Joseph Smith a prophet?”
I’ll go out on a limb and predict that the majority of them will say yes. So what am I getting at here? Cherry-picking your polling data can skew your results a tiny little bit.
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nogames
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If this topic was on sola scriptura, I would be happy to respond. If it’s OK with you, I’ll stay focused on this topic for now.
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nogames
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I don’t object to the teaching of purgatory merely because the word “purgatory” is not found in scripture. It goes deeper than that. If the teaching of purgatory is as important, wonderful, and beautiful as the people defending it here think it is, then why is there no reference to a place like purgatory (a place of painful sin-purging) in scripture? Furthermore, if sinful tendencies can truly be removed in purgatory, why does anyone need to go to hell? No one wants to deal with that question.
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Gorgias
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If the teaching of the Trinity is as important, wonderful, and beautiful as the people defending it here think it is, then why is there no reference to the word ‘Trinity’ in Scripture?
I’ll take you up on that one!
The reason is that you’re misunderstanding the conditions for entry into purgation and into hell.
If you die with your relationship with God completely severed – that is, if you die in a state of mortal sin – then God will honor your decision to separate yourself from Him and you will spend eternity without Him (i.e., “in hell”).
On the other hand, if you die with a relationship with God intact – regardless how tenuous that relationship is – God will honor your desire to spend eternity with Him, and you will go to heaven.
However, if there is venial sin on your soul, or if you’re not perfect (after all, every sin damages us, and even once we’re forgiven, that damage remains), then it’s necessary for these imperfections to be purged prior to entering heaven and being perfect and in the Beatific Vision. That’s all purgatory is – not the creation of a relationship with God, but the restoration of perfection to complement an already-intact relationship with God.
Therefore, ‘purgation’ is not a potential remedy for mortal sin, and cannot be a substitute for hell.
See? Simple…
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You are right.
He pulled the opinions of people going back to apostolic times.
There were no other Christian churches around then, so there was not much of an option there.
Of course looking at your Mormon argument, why would you expect any different on a Catholic forum than Catholic teaching?
Perhaps you could explain why you believe it wrong? Perhaps there could be a meaningful discourse.
Because no one sets their sights on 2nd place.
Setting your goal to be purgatory, instead of heaven, is the surest way to hell.
Everyone has a choice.
If you choose hell, then God will honor that decision.
If you choose God then he will provide you with that as well.
But no one with a stain of sin may enter heaven.
So God provides us a place where we can be prepared for this meeting.
We all know some people in other churches that are moral and follow God as best they can.
But given the church they are in, the sacrament of reconciliation is not there and they simply do not ask forgiveness for all of their sins.
Should they be condemned to hell because they simply did not know?
Should God let their sinfulness into heaven as an exception?
No.
There is purgatory there to help.
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nogames
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There are lots of people who have a big problem with the Trinity doctrine. I have only met a few of these people who disbelieve it merely because the word “trinity” is not found in scripture. Do they have a real argument? In my opinion, no.
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nogames
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How did you discover all of this? Is it from scripture?
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nogames
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What is the source of this information? Are you saying that God always “honors” our choices, even when the choice we make is sinful?
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Gorgias
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Church teaching. Derived from Scripture and Apostolic Teaching.
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nogames
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nogames:
Church teaching. Derived from Scripture and Apostolic Teaching.
Where in scripture do we read about “the conditions for entry into purgation and into hell”? Where in scripture do we read about how “God will honor your decision to separate yourself from Him and you will spend eternity without Him (i.e., “in hell”)”. Does God “honor” sinful choices?nogames:
Church teaching. Derived from Scripture and Apostolic Teaching.
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anon64350612
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Nogames: I will believe that you truly want to understand the doctrine of purgatory preserved in the Catholic Church, when you have read the teachings of the church fathers (complete list available for your reference on this web site). Who were, by the way, the first Christians EVER, who have a direct connection to the apostles, and upon whose direction we rely to understand the bible. If you are sincerely seeking the truth, then you will spend some time on your knees about it. Until then, I have no other option than to believe that you only want to win an argument. There is no team here except God’s team. Ask God whether He wants you to save the Catholics from their beliefs. He will answer you.
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nogames
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I don’t know more of scripture than the church of God. My authority is God, and I “hear” God’s message to us via scripture.
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nogames
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I’m not trying to “win an argument”. I’m trying to glorify God by drawing attention to His word. The good news is often being mixed with unbiblical human speculations, and this is not limited to Catholic teachings, such as purgatory. Lots of non-Catholics are diluting the gospel message by mixing it with human speculations that are popular but wrong. I only “win” in this life when I am doing the work that God wants me to do. We are completely safe in His word. Everything else is potentially dangerous.
I doubt it.
God does not author confusion.
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anon64350612
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Again. Tell me where Sola Scriptura is in the bible.
I am waiting.
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Gorgias
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Where in Scripture do we read “everything we ask, we’ll find in Scripture”? Where in Scripture do we read “Scripture is the sole source of teaching”?
He allows them. Are you telling me that He doesn’t? And that Scripture isn’t filled with stories of sinful choices (and their consequences)?