purgatory

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I wish somebody would give me a “protestant verses in Red bible.”

Are these the only verses in these bibles?

It never seems to fail that the counter arguement to every “proof text” lies within the same chapter of the quoted verse, but some how it never manages to get itself presented, maybe not even read?

For example Hebrews 10:26-27 “If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”

And 1 Cor 6:18-20 "Avoid immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the immoral person sins against his own body.

Do you not know that your body is a temple of the holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you have been purchased at a price. Therefore, glorify God in your body."
Chuck
This is so true. I have spend a lot of time over the last 6 months, showing Moondweller the counters to his prooftexts, yet he never, ever acknowledges them. He simply goes on quoting the same prooftexts without even bothering to understand why he might be wrong.
 
Here’s your problem and the source of difficulty with your doctrine. What I acknowledge is Divinely supported and revealed in the theopneustos Scriptures. What you’re asserting has absolutely no Scriptural support or Divine revelation. The beliefs of true Christianity must be based on Divine revelation or it becomes corrupt. We must still heed the warning Paul wrote to the churches in the region of Galatia who started to deviate from the gospel of Divine grace that was delivered to them: “A little leaven leavens the whole lump” (Gal. 5:9).
Heb 10:14 “For by ONE offering He has perfected For All TIME those who are sanctified.”
And Paul writes to the Corinthian believers:
1 Cor 6:11 “Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.”
Catholic Purgatory serves no purpose for us who have been washed, sanctified and justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. It’s totally nonsensical.
Interesting opinion.

Just out of curiosity…are you perfected and sanctified now? This very minute?

One final question: Where does the Bible tell me explicitly that EVERYTHING I believe as a Christian must be proved from scripure alone?

Yeah, it’s off topic to a degree, but if I have to prove Purgatory from scripture alone, I need to know WHY I have to prove it from scripture alone. The Bible should tell me this in clear, unambiguous language, don’t you think?
 
Interesting opinion.

Just out of curiosity…are you perfected and sanctified now? This very minute?
Yes! This very minute and forever.Heb 10:10 “By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”
One final question: Where does the Bible tell me explicitly that EVERYTHING I believe as a Christian must be proved from scripure alone?

Yeah, it’s off topic to a degree, but if I have to prove Purgatory from scripture alone, I need to know WHY I have to prove it from scripture alone. The Bible should tell me this in clear, unambiguous language, don’t you think?
Well, what else other than Scripture does it say is theopneustos (God-breathed)? Even Christ Himself took His disciples through the Scriptures to show (proof text) and explain to them the things concerning Him in all the Scriptures (Lk. 24:26-27, 32). And one of the last things He did was open their minds to understand the Scriptures (Lk. 24:45).

God said to the ancient Hebrew prophet:"You have seen well, for I am watching over My word to perform it."Not the word of men.
 
Heb 10:14 "For by ONE offering He has perfected For All TIME those who are sanctified."And Paul writes to the Corinthian believers:1 Cor 6:11 "Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God."Catholic Purgatory serves no purpose for us who have been washed, sanctified and justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. It’s totally nonsensical.
First: sanctification, in the thought of St. Paul, is not irreversible:

Hbr 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Secondly, Heb 10:14 does not say “for all time”. This is an English phrase which implies irreversibilIty. The Greek word used here is Strong’s #G1336, διηνεκες, the phrase is εις το διηνεκες (eis to dihnekes). The sense is ‘continually’ or ‘perpetually’. If you doubt, pick up Strong’s Concordance, or visit www.blueletterbible.org. You can also see its meaning by reviewing other verses where it is used:

Hbr 7:3 Without father 540, without mother 282, without descent 35, having 2192 neither 3383 beginning 746 of days 2250, nor 3383 end 5056 of life 2222; but 1161 made like 871 unto the Son 5207 of God 2316; abideth 3306 a priest 2409 continually 1519 1336.

Hbr 10:1 For 1063 the law 3551 having 2192 a shadow 4639 of good things 18 to come 3195 , [and] not 3756 the very 846 image 1504 of the things 4229, can 1410 never 3763 with those 846 sacrifices 2378 which 3739 they offered 4374 year by year 2596 1763 continually 1519 1336 make 5048 0 the comers thereunto 4334 perfect 5048 .

Hbr 10:12 But 1161 this man 846, after he had offered 4374 one 3391 sacrifice 2378 for 5228 sins 266 for 1519 ever 1336, sat down 2523 on 1722 the right hand 1188 of God 2316;

Therefore, the sanctification you are referencing is an ongoing, reversible process.
 
[/indent]Well, what else other than Scripture does it say is theopneustos (God-breathed)? *Even Christ Himself took His disciples through the Scriptures to show (proof text) and explain to them the things concerning Him in all the Scriptures (Lk. 24:26-27, 32). *And one of the last things He did was open their minds to understand the Scriptures (Lk. 24:45). *

God said to the ancient Hebrew prophet:"You have seen well, for I am watching over My word to perform it."Not the word of men.
First: the fact that theopneustos is a hapax legomenon is intriguing; however, that not necessarily translate into a unique function. For instance, in James 1:21, ρυπαρια (rhyparia - filthiness) is another hapax legomenon - but that doesn’t mean that no other wrongdoing mentioned in Scripture is ‘filthy’.
Secondly, aside from referring to Christ Himself, the phrase ‘word of God’ can mean not only Scripture, but also the Gospel of Christ as proclaimed by the Church orally. *The occurences of the latter far outnumber those of the former in the NT. In fact, in the Acts of the Apostles,every instance of the term ‘word of God’ refers to the oral proclamation of the Church:

Act 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
Act 6:2 Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples [unto them], and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.
Act 6:7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.
Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Act 11:1 And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God.
Act 12:24 But the word of God grew and multiplied.
Act 13:5 And when they were at Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews: and they had also John to [their] minister.
Act 13:7 Which was with the deputy of the country, Sergius Paulus, a prudent man; who called for Barnabas and Saul, and desired to hear the word of God.
Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
Act 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
Act 17:13 But when the Jews of Thessalonica had knowledge that the word of God was preached of Paul at Berea, they came thither also, and stirred up the people.
Act 18:11 And he continued [there] a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.
Act 19:20 So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed.

So it is invalid to conclude that the Scriptures are the only rule of faith.*
 
Actually, Divine revelation comes from the Holy Spirit Himself. Jesus said to His Apostles:John 14:26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.And the truths He taught them and brought to their remembrance were preserved for future generations in theopneustos (God-breathed) Scriptures. The job of the church is to support these doctrines, those that were Divinely revealed, not make up its own.
Divine revelation DOES come from the Holy Spirit THROUGH the Church of Christ, The One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. You are evading the whole truth in order to negate the existence and teaching authority of Christ’s Church. You are then forced to teach (as you yourself have been taught) that the Church of Christ has seriously erred by teaching false doctrines. You have no other option but to deny the Body of Christ, the Holy Catholic Church. You say that Purgatory is one of these false teachings because you (and those that have taught you --meaning mere men) have your own favorite Biblical passages, which in your own minds have negated the ones that the Church, in her Divinely guided wisdom (as promised by her Head, Jesus Christ) has taught since Apostolic times.

You have place all of your soul’s good and your faith in mere men --and what they say the Bible means, not in the Divinely guided Holy Apostolic Church. The same Church that gave the world the Holy Scriptures. The same Church that gave the world the key to understanding the Scriptures. The same Church that has ALWAYS been argued with, and despised by those who could not bear the Authority of God, and his spouse the Church.
 
First: sanctification, in the thought of St. Paul, is not irreversible:

Hbr 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Obviously, one who has trodden under foot the Son of God and considers His blood as unholy (common), was never personally sanctified, by faith, in the Son of God. You fail to understand the context of that verse and how the word sanctified is used.
Secondly, Heb 10:14 does not say “for all time”. This is an English phrase which implies irreversibilIty. The Greek word used here is Strong’s #G1336, διηνεκες, the phrase is εις το διηνεκες (eis to dihnekes). The sense is 'continually’ or 'perpetually’. If you doubt, pick up Strong’s Concordance, or visit www.blueletterbible.org. You can also see its meaning by reviewing other verses where it is used:
Yes! “Once for all” does imply irreversible.
Therefore, the sanctification you are referencing is an ongoing, reversible process.
Actually, what you’ve just helped to prove is that it is not reversible, nor is the believer’s sanctification in Christ a process, but in reality a status. The true believer is identified as one sanctified in the risen Christ. Nothing about the risen Christ is reversible.Acts 26:18 "…to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.

1 Cor 1:2 *“To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their {Lord} and ours:”*To be sanctified in the risen Christ is an ongoing, perpetual status. It’s a condition, an eternal position.
 
You say that Purgatory is one of these false teachings because you (and those that have taught you --meaning mere men) have your own favorite Biblical passages, which in your own minds have negated the ones that the Church, in her Divinely guided wisdom (as promised by her Head, Jesus Christ) has taught since Apostolic times.
Can you quote for me even one Apostle’s teaching on Purgatory?
 
One more thought when considering the Scripture wars that can be seen in threads like this against the existence of Purgatory: When Satan tempted Jesus in the desert he bolstered his temptations with quotes from Scripture. Did Jesus refute his quotes? No. He merely quoted an opposing text from Scripture. What does that tell us?
  1. Scripture can be interpreted to bolster any wicked argument
  2. There is no Scriptural method to “refute” another Scriptural quote
  3. Ultimately the authority of the quoter is the most important criteria
 
moondweller, I’m sure you agree with the following two biblical propositions. The first we also know from experience, that is, (1) Christians continue to sin after receiving the grace of salvation. The second we know from the bible, and that is, (2) there will be no sin in Heaven. If you agree with these two biblical concepts, the inevitable conclusion is that Purgatory exists. Purgatory is a purification after death that enables the person to enter Heaven. Since we still sin and since we will not sin in Heaven, per the bible, the unavoidable conclusion is that God effects a change in us that removes any existing condition with a tendency to sin. You say this is not a process but that doesn’t make it true. There is a linear sequence of events (a process) after death given the before and after states of existence of the person: a before state where the person can still sin (as they did in this life) and a state of existence after the purification where the person will no longer sin.
moondweller, your response?
 
Well, what else other than Scripture does it say is theopneustos (God-breathed)?
The Church.

John 20:21-23
Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
Even Christ Himself took His disciples through the Scriptures to show (proof text) and explain to them the things concerning Him in all the Scriptures (Lk. 24:26-27, 32). And one of the last things He did was open their minds to understand the Scriptures (Lk. 24:45).

God said to the ancient Hebrew prophet:
You have seen well, for I am watching over My word to perform it.”
Not the word of men.
If the teaching of the Catholic Church was “the word of men”, then this might be relevant. However, Jesus told the Apostles, “He who hears you, hears me” and Paul wrote,

1 Thessalonians 2:13
And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is at work in you who believe.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.****

Clearly, Apostolic oral preaching is also the Word of God…not just written scripture.

That aside, I am well-aware of the Protestant argument that scripture is theopneustos. Amen! That is a wonderful statement about the nature of scripture. However, it does not answer my questions.

Where does the Bible tell me explicitly that EVERYTHING I believe as a Christian must be proved from scripure alone?

If you insist that f I have to prove Purgatory from scripture alone, I need to know WHY, and your argument that nothing else is* theopneustos* does not answer this question.
 
Yes! This very minute and forever.
Heb 10:10 “By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”
Jimmy Akin addressed this error here:

Sometimes claims about the Greek are flat out erroneous—that is, they assert something that simply is not true. A well-known example of this is the assertion that in Greek the aorist tense indicates a punctiliar event or even a once for all event.

For those not familiar with this terminology, the aorist is one of the major tenses in biblical Greek. It occurs more frequently than any other tense in the New Testament (though the present tense is a close second). The word aorist means undefined or indefinite, and the tense tells you about an action (usually in the past) without telling you whether the action was just begun or is ongoing or finished. Since it leaves the latter topics undefined, it is called the undefined or aorist tense.

(Other Greek tenses are more definite on this topic; the imperfect tense, for example, usually indicates a past action that was ongoing, while the perfect tense usually indicates a past action that was finished.)

With that as background, it is ironic that some preachers—and even some Greek textbooks!—describe the aorist as indicating a “punctiliar” action—that is, an action that occurs at a point in time. For example, in the sentence “Bob’s fist hit Bill face,” the verb hit describes a punctiliar action, something that occurred in a single moment. (For comparison, the action would be described as continuous or ongoing if it read, “Bob’s fist was hitting Bill’s face.”)

Matters are even worse when some preachers say that the aorist not only describes a punctiliar action but that it describes a “once for all” action—something done once, never to be undone and never to be repeated.

Why would anyone claim such things? The aorist, of all the past tenses in Greek, means the least. Why would such definite meanings be ascribed to the indefinite tense?

Much light is shed on this mystery when you look at the doctrines in conjunction with which such claims are often made—in particular, the doctrine of justification.

Modern Protestant theology very much wants to portray justification as an event that occurs to us at a definite point in time—one that is not ongoing—and that happens only once in the life of the believer. It would service Protestant confessional interests if direct support for these claims could be found in the Greek itself.

And so, since the aorist tense gets used in the New Testament to refer to our justification, we find many Protestant preachers and commentators front-loading Protestant theology into the grammar itself. The aorist thus gets portrayed as a tense which indicates a punctiliar or even once-for-all action when in fact it is the tense of all the Greek tenses that tells us the least about the kind of action under discussion.

Of course, when the theological cart gets put behind the grammatical horse, it can cause problems, and this particular one has come back to haunt many traditional, confessional Protestants. You see, it turns out that the New Testament uses the aorist when it talks about sanctification as well as justification. This helped lead the Protestant Wesleyan and his holiness movement to claim that not only is justification an instantaneous, once-for-all act but that sanctification is as well.

This irks non-Wesleyan, non-holiness Protestant theology, which wishes to hold that sanctification is a process rather than an instantaneous event.

In fact, the portrayal of sanctification as a process plays an important role in much Protestant theology, because it is the means by which Evangelical theologians are able to take account of the fact God continues to work in the life of the believer after justification. It is clear that God does continue to work in our lives even after conversion and initial justification. Catholics have often used the word “justification” to refer to this continuing work of God, as well as to his initial work, but Protestant theology has not wanted to do this. It has wanted to portray justification as something all done in an instant, and so it needs another term to refer to God’s ongoing work in our lives. The term it chose was sanctification.

It begins to get dicey, then, when Wesleyans begin saying to non-Wesleyans, “What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If the aorist describes a punctiliar, once-for-all action, and if the aorist is used for both justification and sanctification, then both of these must be point-action events in the life of the believer.”

This underscores the need to be careful in what one says regarding Greek. Not only apologetics but also doctrine itself can be seriously skewed if one is not cautious in these matters.

When I took Greek (from a Protestant, incidentally), he passed on to the class a saying that he had learned in his own student days—“There’s nothing more dangerous than a first-year Greek student.”

I didn’t have the heart to tell him that, while that’s true everywhere, it’s more true in Protestant circles than in Catholic ones. Catholics have Tradition and the Magisterium to keep them within the bounds of sound theology. Those who pride themselves on operating sola scriptura, and who then try an encounter with the Greek scriptura alone, do not have these boundaries and are more likely to get an odd idea about the Greek and start a new, false theology based on it.

catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0102bt.asp
 
The Church.

John 20:21-23
Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
This isn’t theopneustos, Randy. The Scriptures aren’t “breathed on” (Gr. emphusao), they’re God-breathed (Gr. theopneustos). They’re the written Word of God.
Clearly, Apostolic oral preaching is also the Word of God…not just written scripture.
It’s true that the Apostles did preach the Word of God, but they themselves were not the Word of God. The Scriptures, however, are. The church (the spiritual body of Christ) is to support the Word of God, the Word of truth (1 Tim. 3:15); it is not itself the Word of God nor itself the Truth. Theopneustos refers only to the Scriptures. The writings themselves were God-breathed.

The Apostles did preach and teach the Word of God. Can you quote any Apostle on the reality of Catholic Purgatory?
 
Can you quote for me even one Apostle’s teaching on Purgatory?
Sure.

But first a refresher…

What Purgatory is NOT:
  1. Purgatory is not a second chance.
  2. Purgatory is not a place where the soul can do anything to cleans himself; all cleansing is done by God alone.
  3. Purgatory is not a “third option” for people who are “too good” for heaven but “too bad” for heaven; there are only two destinations for those who have died: heaven or hell.
Principles Supporting Purgatory:
  1. Scripture teaches that we can pray for those who have died.
  2. Those in heaven do not need prayer; those in hell cannot benefit.
  3. Scripture teaches that there are other places where those who have died may be other than heaven or hell: hades and "Abraham’s Bosom (or the Limbo of the Fathers).
  4. We know that nothing unclean can enter heaven.
  5. We know that we may not be perfectly detached from sin and the things of this world when we die.
Now for your Apostolic verse;

1 Corinthians 3:12-15
12If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man’s work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

Note well what Paul says: the man will be saved, but only as one who goes through an experiece that he describes as being similar to passing “through the flames”.

That sounds like a purification or purgatorial process to me.
 
This isn’t theopneustos, Randy.
Nope, it isn’t.

Yet, Jesus, who is God, breathed on the Apostles. Why? The only other time in scripture this occurs is in Genesis. Clearly, Jesus is doing something VERY, VERY significant by breathing on His Apostles…akin to breathing life into Adam, eh?
The church (the spiritual body of Christ) is to support the Word of God, the Word of truth (1 Tim. 3:15); it is not itself the Word of God nor itself the Truth.
Support? Well, if you mean support to the degree that without the Church, the truth would crumble, yes, since that is what pillars and foundations secure.

But if you mean support in the sense that a supporting actress gets a ho-hum Academy Award for making the “Best Actress” Winner look good, then no, not so much. The Church as Jesus portrays it is much more than that.
 
Can you quote for me even one Apostle’s teaching on Purgatory?
1 Cor. 3:10-15 - works are judged after death and tested by fire. Some works are lost, but the person is still saved. Paul is referring to the state of purgation called purgatory. The venial sins (bad works) that were committed are burned up after death, but the person is still brought to salvation. This state after death cannot be heaven (no one with venial sins is present) or hell (there is no forgiveness and salvation).

1 Cor. 3:15 � �if any man�s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.� The phrase for “suffer loss” in the Greek is “zemiothesetai.” The root word is “zemioo” which also refers to punishment. The construction �zemiothesetai� is used in Ex. 21:22 and Prov. 19:19 which refers to punishment (from the Hebrew �anash� meaning �punish� or �penalty�). Hence, this verse proves that there is an expiation of temporal punishment after our death, but the person is still saved. This cannot mean heaven (there is no punishment in heaven) and this cannot mean hell (the possibility of expiation no longer exists and the person is not saved).

1 Cor. 3:15 � further, Paul writes �he himself will be saved, “but only” (or �yet so�) as through fire.� �He will be saved� in the Greek is �sothesetai� (which means eternal salvation). The phrase “but only” (or �yet so�) in the Greek is “houtos” which means “in the same manner.” This means that man is both eternally rewarded and eternally saved in the same manner by fire.

1 Cor. 3:13 - when Paul writes about God revealing the quality of each man’s work by fire and purifying him, this purification relates to his sins (not just his good works). Protestants, in attempting to disprove the reality of purgatory, argue that Paul was only writing about rewarding good works, and not punishing sins (because punishing and purifying a man from sins would be admitting that there is a purgatory).

1 Cor. 3:17 - but this verse proves that the purgation after death deals with punishing sin. That is, destroying God’s temple is a bad work, which is a mortal sin, which leads to death. 1 Cor. 3:14,15,17 - purgatory thus reveals the state of righteousness (v.14), state of venial sin (v.15) and the state of mortal sin (v.17), all of which are judged after death.

1 Peter 1:6-7 - Peter refers to this purgatorial fire to test the fruits of our faith.

Jude 1:23 - the people who are saved are being snatched out of the fire. People are already saved if they are in heaven, and there is no possibility of salvation if they are in hell. These people are being led to heaven from purgatory.

Rev. 3:18-19 - Jesus refers to this fire as what refines into gold those He loves if they repent of their sins. This is in the context of after death because Jesus, speaking from heaven, awards the white garment of salvation after the purgation of fire (both after death).
 
Sure.

But first a refresher…

What Purgatory is NOT:
  1. Purgatory is not a second chance.
  2. Purgatory is not a place where the soul can do anything to cleans himself; all cleansing is done by God alone.
  3. Purgatory is not a “third option” for people who are “too good” for heaven but “too bad” for heaven; there are only two destinations for those who have died: heaven or hell.
Principles Supporting Purgatory:
  1. Scripture teaches that we can pray for those who have died.
  2. Those in heaven do not need prayer; those in hell cannot benefit.
  3. Scripture teaches that there are other places where those who have died may be other than heaven or hell: hades and "Abraham’s Bosom (or the Limbo of the Fathers).
  4. We know that nothing unclean can enter heaven.
  5. We know that we may not be perfectly detached from sin and the things of this world when we die.
Now for your Apostolic verse;

1 Corinthians 3:12-15
12If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man’s work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

Note well what Paul says: the man will be saved, but only as one who goes through an experiece that he describes as being similar to passing “through the flames”.

That sounds like a purification or purgatorial process to me.
Great post Randy! It should also be noted as absolutely critical to understanding Purgatory, and other Church teachings, that NOT EVERYTHING IS EXPLICITLY DEFINED in Scripture, so as to make unnecessary the teaching of the Apostles or the Church. This is so obvious, it would hardly seem necessary to mention. However, there are people that believe if absolutely everything is not EXPLICITLY defined in Scriptures, and despite Church teachings to the contrary, that belief is false. 😦

That is nothing new to the Church however. Heretics have been arguing with the Church based on erroneous interpretations since there were Scriptures to argue about. 😉
 
moondweller, your response?
Here’s the Biblical response:1 Cor 6:9-11 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor {the} covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God."At the beginning of the letter Paul calls them “saints,” not sinners. What’s described above are sinners. Sinners, such as the above will not inherit the kingdom of God. But no true believer is ever identified as a “sinner,” but a saint, having been credited God’s own righteousness through faith in Christ. Because “the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness” (Rom. 4:5).

Only the righteous will enter heaven. But not those who have a righteousness of their own, but that which is through faith, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of FAITH (Phil. 3:9).

When God Himself credits His own righteousness to believers, there’s no need for a place like Catholic Purgatory. For this reason you can’t find it taught in the theopneustos Scriptures.
 
Now for your Apostolic verse;

1 Corinthians 3:12-15
12If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man’s work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

Note well what Paul says: the man will be saved, but only as one who goes through an experiece that he describes as being similar to passing “through the flames”.

That sounds like a purification or purgatorial process to me.
The problem is, Randy (and it’s been pointed out to you many times before), that passage in context is about WORKS and REWARDS, not the purging of sins. The fire there (which is figurative) is revelatory, not purgatorial. Those works which cannot be burned (figuratively, gold, silver, precious stones) receive reward. Those which do burn (figuratively, wood, hay, straw) - no reward.

Every true believer will go through the fiery judgment of his works. But the man who goes through the fiery judgment and receives no reward is yet saved because his salvation was never based on his works in the first place, but “by grace through faith” in Jesus Christ alone. That’s what verse 15 is stating.

Admit it, there’s no Apostolic teaching on Catholic Purgatory. Purgatory is a post-Apostolic teaching of men.
 
The problem is, Randy (and it’s been pointed out to you many times before), that passage in context is about WORKS and REWARDS, not the purging of sins. The fire there (which is figurative) is revelatory, not purgatorial. Those works which cannot be burned (figuratively, gold, silver, precious stones) receive reward. Those which do burn (figuratively, wood, hay, straw) - no reward.

Every true believer will go through the fiery judgment of his works. But the man who goes through the fiery judgment and receives no reward is yet saved because his salvation was never based on his works in the first place, but “by grace through faith” in Jesus Christ alone. That’s what verse 15 is stating.

Admit it, there’s no Apostolic teaching on Catholic Purgatory. Purgatory is a post-Apostolic teaching of men.
And as it has been pointed out to you many times before, Purgatory does NOT purge sins! It is only the temporal punishment due to sins (to use theological language) that Purgatory purges. How can you call the Church, which is guided by the Holy Spirit as promised by Jesus Christ, a teaching of men, but call the Moody Bible Institute’s teachings on the Bible theopneustos?
 
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