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Bill_Pick
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Richared,If a person has never been in a church and got bapyism at 5 pm and walk out on church and was killed at 7pm was that person saved yes or no
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Richard_Kastner
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Bill you keep saying you are going to answer my question and then you come back with another question. I answered your first question in post #831 and then I asked you a question to which you have yet to respond. Answer that question and we can continue.
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Bill_Pick
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Richard, I,m not trying to be a smart A but I do not have the time to go with 831 post if you can not post it again just for get it OK,If you do not answer I can understand,have a good night
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Bill_Pick
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Now I see you said I,m answering my own post ,so if that the true,You question has been answer
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Richard_Kastner
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You don’t have time to go to post 831, but you expect me to have the time to repost a question 3-4 pages back, really Bill. Then you post this.
I don’t know what you are trying to pull, but I never said you answered your own post. What I did say is that I answered your post. Something that you have not shown me the courtesy to do. All because as you say you don’t have the time. I think that maybe you are trying to be a smart A (whatever that means).
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Bill_Pick
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Matt. 28:19-20 - Jesus commands the apostles to baptize all people “in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.” Many Protestant churches are now teaching that baptism is only a symbolic ritual, and not what actually cleanses us from original sin. This belief contradicts Scripture and the 2,000 year-old teaching of the Church.
Acts 2:38 - Peter commands them to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ in order to be actually forgiven of sin, not just to partake of a symbolic ritual.
Matt. 28:19-20; Acts 2:38 - there is nothing in these passages or elsewhere in the Bible about baptism being symbolic. There is also nothing about just accepting Jesus as personal Lord and Savior in order to be saved.
Mark 16:16 - Jesus said “He who believes AND is baptized will be saved.” Jesus says believing is not enough. Baptism is also required. This is because baptism is salvific, not just symbolic. The Greek text also does not mandate any specific order for belief and baptism, so the verse proves nothing about a “believer’s baptism.”
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tweetymom
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Believes and repent are the key words. When I was baptised as an infant it meant nothing to me. When I got to be 38 and truly repented it meant something. All this is a bit off topic, I would say.
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Bill_Pick
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tweetmom, Have you ever heard of CONFIRMATION,ITS THE SEAL OF THE SPIRIT, A GIFT OF THE FATHER
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tweetymom
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Bill been there done that but when I repented and was baptised it meant more to me.
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God4me
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The, “One Baptism” mentioned in Eph 4: 5, Is the Spiritual baptism into the Body of Christ. 1 Cor 12: 13. [By one spirit we are baptised into the body of Christ]. Nothing about water.Good, now why are we doing that tweety? Is not one baptism for the forgiveness for original sin, and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit!
That is why it is ONE Baptism for the forgiveness of sin. Once you are baptised you have been cleansed of original sin, you can never commit it again. ITs why Jesus died and paid for that sin, in baptism once and for all.
Even many protestatants see this, but they are confused on actual sin and original, they do not understand we cannot ever conmit OS again but we can fall from that grace given in Baptism through actual sin. Thats the big gap in our belief.
Also, Paul said to the Corinthian believers,
[It is through my Ministry that you are born again] BUT he said, “I BAPTISED NONE OF YOU”. SO YOU CAN SE THAT PAUL DIDN’T BELIEVE IN FORGIVENESS OF SINS THROUGH WATER BAPTISM.
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Vile_Servant
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how did a thread on purgatory evolve into a thread on baptism? 
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rinnie
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Hi richard I would love to take a shot at this question. I have explained to you but you refuse to accept what Bill and I are trying to tell you. Let me repeat it again. When we are baptised we are sealed with Christ and if we are a child original sin is forgiven, if we are baptised as an adult OS and actual sin is forgiven.
Jesus died for all sin. Original sin and actual sin. OR is wiped away once and for all at baptisim. Actual sin mys be as you quoted the scripture confessed by mouth, we call that sacrament Confession.
If Jesus had not died on the cross and died for our sins heaven would not be possible. It is by Jesus dying on the cross that makes actual sin possible to be forgiven, as I stated to you Jesus died for all sin not just OS. But OS can not be repeated. Its forgiven once and for all. But actual sin can be repeated and because of it we must confess by word of mouth to a priest as scripture tells us. Jesus gave the Apostles and Priests in succession the authority given to him by God to do so,
ITs like you have a brain freeze into acutal sin and original sin, and Bill nor I can get through to you that there are indeed two kinds of sin forgiven a baptism.
What BIll is trying to do is in another way explain to you if you are older and just got baptised you also did a complete confession and have complete absolution from your sin and have a new slate. If right after that moment you walk out and die you are given immediate entrance into heaven. For your did indeed die sin free.
But say one hour later, heck minutes later you can commit sin. Thats actual sin, then you must confess to God for forgiveness you are no longer in that state of Grace. BUt for some reason no matter how we try we can’t get thru. Hope this helps you to understand our faith.
That my friend is how the scripture ties in together.
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Vile_Servant
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rinnie,Hi richard I would love to take a shot at this question. I have explained to you but you refuse to accept what Bill and I are trying to tell you. Let me repeat it again. When we are baptised we are sealed with Christ and if we are a child original sin is forgiven, if we are baptised as an adult OS and actual sin is forgiven.
Jesus died for all sin. Original sin and actual sin. OR is wiped away once and for all at baptisim. Actual sin mys be as you quoted the scripture confessed by mouth, we call that sacrament Confession.
If Jesus had not died on the cross and died for our sins heaven would not be possible. It is by Jesus dying on the cross that makes actual sin possible to be forgiven, as I stated to you Jesus died for all sin not just OS. But OS can not be repeated. Its forgiven once and for all. But actual sin can be repeated and because of it we must confess by word of mouth to a priest as scripture tells us. Jesus gave the Apostles and Priests in succession the authority given to him by God to do so,
ITs like you have a brain freeze into acutal sin and original sin, and Bill nor I can get through to you that there are indeed two kinds of sin forgiven a baptism.
What BIll is trying to do is in another way explain to you if you are older and just got baptised you also did a complete confession and have complete absolution from your sin and have a new slate. If right after that moment you walk out and die you are given immediate entrance into heaven. For your did indeed die sin free.
But say one hour later, heck minutes later you can commit sin. Thats actual sin, then you must confess to God for forgiveness you are no longer in that state of Grace. BUt for some reason no matter how we try we can’t get thru. Hope this helps you to understand our faith.
That my friend is how the scripture ties in together.
protestants believe that Jesus died and paid the price once and for all for ALL sin, OS AND actual sin, past present and future.
that’s why you will never be able to convince richard.
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rinnie
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Richard Jesus knew there was not other way. He never prayed and asked God to take the cup from him. He knew thats why he was here. If that were true would it not be crazy for him to attack Peter when Peter told him not to do it. Did Jesus not tell Peter only the devil was tempting Peter to talk Jesus out of it. Jesus said I am here for one reason and one reason only to do Gods will.
Richard Jesus was fully God fully human. Jesus did 2 thngs for us. He taught not only by word but by also deed.
Go back and read that whole scripture. Jesus does what? He tell us to pray does he not, and he prays does he not.
Compare Matt 5:3-4 and John 13:4-5. Jesus teaches it, and then he does it. Thats word and deed.
Here Jesus was fully human he manifest the actual feelings of man into full demonstration. He is teaching us something here Richard that you seemed to miss.
He is saying first when you are distressed, go pray, ask God to deliver you from this distress. But he is also saying this, If God does not deliver you from this, submit to this. ITS GODS WILL!!!
Here it is in Rinnie language Richard Jesus is saying look, I just went through every single human emotion made to man. I feel distress a human fear to the extend that blood is pouring out of my sweat. But I trust my Father and you should too. He is saying I feel fear, human fear, but no fear is greater than My love and trust for My Father.
He is saying if I ask something of you no matter how hard it may seem at the time, Pray and if its my will submit to it, and I will get you through it.
Its the biggest lesson that he has ever taught me Richard. Its the lesson of life. We are all going to suffer. There is a reason for it, if the cup does not pass us, embrace it and Do Gods Will Also.
[/SIGN][/SIGN] Um NO
Richard Jesus knew there was not other way. He never prayed and asked God to take the cup from him. He knew thats why he was here. If that were true would it not be crazy for him to attack Peter when Peter told him not to do it. Did Jesus not tell Peter only the devil was tempting Peter to talk Jesus out of it. Jesus said I am here for one reason and one reason only to do Gods will.
Richard Jesus was fully God fully human. Jesus did 2 thngs for us. He taught not only by word but by also deed.
Go back and read that whole scripture. Jesus does what? He tell us to pray does he not, and he prays does he not.
Compare Matt 5:3-4 and John 13:4-5. Jesus teaches it, and then he does it. Thats word and deed.
Here Jesus was fully human he manifest the actual feelings of man into full demonstration. He is teaching us something here Richard that you seemed to miss.
He is saying first when you are distressed, go pray, ask God to deliver you from this distress. But he is also saying this, If God does not deliver you from this, submit to this. ITS GODS WILL!!!
Here it is in Rinnie language Richard
Jesus is saying look, I just went through every single human emotion made to man. I feel distress a human fear to the extend that blood is pouring out of my sweat. But I trust my Father and you should too. He is saying I feel fear, human fear, but no fear is greater than My love and trust for My Father.He is saying if I ask something of you no matter how hard it may seem at the time, Pray and if its my will submit to it, and I will get you through it.
Its the biggest lesson that he has ever taught me Richard. Its the lesson of life. We are all going to suffer. There is a reason for it, if the cup does not pass us, embrace it and Do Gods Will Also.
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rinnie
Guest
I know but they are comming around. They really are. Like Ib for instance. He does understand that we must repent our sin and ask for forgiveness.rinnie,
protestants believe that Jesus died and paid the price once and for all for ALL sin, OS AND actual sin, past present and future.
that’s why you will never be able to convince richard.
And they are right to an extent. Jesus did pay for our sin, the sin we commited, and the sin we will commit. BUt by his Death he made possible the Sacrament of Confession. That is why he gave the Apostles the right to forgive that sin in his name.
But Jesus did die for ALL sin. But Baptism did not take away ALL sin once and for ALL. Thats where we must find a way to come together and teach this.
we are in a state of grace at baptism. but sin can make us fall from that state of grace. Confession puts us back in the state of grace, where we were in baptism.
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tweetymom
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M att 26:39.I know but they are comming around. They really are. Like Ib for instance. He does understand that we must repent our sin and ask for forgiveness.
And they are right to an extent. Jesus did pay for our sin, the sin we commited, and the sin we will commit. BUt by his Death he made possible the Sacrament of Confession. That is why he gave the Apostles the right to forgive that sin in his name.
But Jesus did die for ALL sin. But Baptism did not take away ALL sin once and for ALL. Thats where we must find a way to come together and teach this.
we are in a state of grace at baptism. but sin can make us fall from that state of grace. Confession puts us back in the state of grace, where we were in baptism.
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Richard_Kastner
Guest
Baptism is a very real expression of our faith in the one that has saved us from our sins and that would be Jesus Christ. We cannot save ourselves through anything we do. Baptism in and of itself has no power to save us.
Emphasis on “repent” and “in the name of Jesus Christ” It is symbolic of our death to sin and resurrection to life in Christ.
Well, I think scripture disagrees with you. Here’s a few.
John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 3:15
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Acts 8:37
And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Acts 10:43
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Romans 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Romans 3
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
This is just through Romans, I could keep going but you get the idea. Justification before a holy God is by faith in Jesus Christ period. Baptism is the outward manifestation of that faith.
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Bill_Pick
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Isaiah 44:3 - the Lord pours out His water and His Spirit. Water and the Spirit are linked to baptism. The Bible never separates them.
Ezek. 36:25-27 - the Lord promises He will sprinkle us with water to cleanse us from sin and give us a new heart and spirit. Paul refers to this verse in Heb. 10:22. The teaching of Ezekiel foreshadows the salvific nature of Christian baptism instituted by Jesus and taught in John 3:5, Titus 3:5, 1 Peter 3:21 and Acts 22:16.
Now I have a question, If some one was never in a church,and was baptism at 4 in the after noon,and at 6 at was kill in a car wreck,will h e be saved
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God4me
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Purgatory is from the devil, You can’t provide one scripture that proves beyond doubt that purgatory exists.
The Bible teaches,living 100% for Jesus and go to heaven, Or live for yourself and go to hell, No middles ground.
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