Question about hell

[Dannel11]

CCC 1035 states:

The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

Lets say I am a Catholic and the following happens:

1. 
   *]I go to confession on Saturday
   *]Do my penance
   *]Purposely miss Church on Sunday to go golfing
   *]Die on Monday
   
   According to the CCC, I would go to hell. This does not sound right to me.
   
   I thought that as long as you were baptized and believed that Jesus was your Lord and Savior, that you would burn off sin in purgatory.
   
   Can someone explain this to me?
   
   Thank you!

 

[marty1818]

In Matthew 7:21 Christ tells us:

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.”

It is not enough just to be baptized and to believe in Christ.

The Catechism tells us:

2181 The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor.119 Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.

We cannot say we are doing the will of the Father if we are deliberately rejecting Him by committing a mortal sin.

 

[1ke]

According to the CCC, I would go to hell.

Well, no.

Those who die in unrepentent mortal sin go to Hell. The situation you describe may or may not be mortal sin. Objectively, it is grave matter. We cannot know the state of mind of the individual. We also cannot know their contrition or lack of it at the time of their death.

So, yes, if the person willfully and purposely committed mortal sin and died unrepentant they would indeed be suject to their choice to separate themselves from God.

This does not sound right to me.

Why not?

I thought that as long as you were baptized and believed that Jesus was your Lord and Savior, that you would burn off sin in purgatory.

Why, no, that is not at all what the Church teaches regarding Purgatory.

Can someone explain this to me?

I suggest reading the Catechism on Purgatory. Purgation is the process of cleansing that those who die in a state of grace undergo.

 

[JD27076]

Well, no.

Those who die in unrepentent mortal sin go to Hell. The situation you describe may or may not be mortal sin. Objectively, it is grave matter. We cannot know the state of mind of the individual. We also cannot know their contrition or lack of it at the time of their death.

So, yes, if the person willfully and purposely committed mortal sin and died unrepentant they would indeed be suject to their choice to separate themselves from God.

Why not?

Why, no, that is not at all what the Church teaches regarding Purgatory.

I suggest reading the Catechism on Purgatory. Purgation is the process of cleansing that those who die in a state of grace undergo.

Wait! So if I commit a Mortal sin, and become very contrite and repent of my sin. I would still go to hell? Or would that Mortal sin be purged in the Holy Fires of Purgatory?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

CCC 1035 states:

Lets say I am a Catholic and the following happens:

1. 
   *]I go to confession on Saturday
   *]Do my penance
   *]Purposely miss Church on Sunday to go golfing
   *]Die on Monday
   
   According to the CCC, I would go to hell. This does not sound right to me.
   
   I thought that as long as you were baptized and believed that Jesus was your Lord and Savior, that you would burn off sin in purgatory.
   
   Can someone explain this to me?
   
   Thank you!

1. 
   Actually, the Catholic Church (and the Catechism) simply note the consistent teaching of Jesus. . .that there are sins (mortal) which kill one’s relationship with God unless they are repented and forgiven.
   
   Again the Church and catechism note that the NORM for forgiveness is sacramental confession.
   
   But God is merciful. IF the person in your above scenario repented before death, then God could forgive him.
   
   So the Church does not teach without fail that if Barney blows off church to go golfing and dies on Monday, he WILL go to hell.
   
   The Church teaches that an unconfessed and unREPENTED mortal sin is sufficient that a person would condemn HIMSELF to hell. Whenever or wherever committed.
   
   Big difference.
   
   I surely would like to know where you got the idea of baptism and ‘Jesus as Lord and Savior’ would result in a purgatory burnoff without any need to confess, as that has never been Catholic teaching. Sounds like somebody in trying to explain Catholic teaching was trying to put it in terms that are more used by protestants and didn’t explain it well at all. But that’s all right. That’s why sites like CA are here. They help you figure out what is really Church teaching.

 

[Mijoy2]

Depends on your score I think

 

[JNdoum]

Wait! So if I commit a Mortal sin, and become very contrite and repent of my sin. I would still go to hell? Or would that Mortal sin be purged in the Holy Fires of Purgatory?

Heavens no. If you truly repented, and Confessed your sin, you would be forgiven, and probably not need Purgatory. The only way to go to Hell is to wilfully reject God and His will in favor of your own. Honestly, so long as you try your very best to live with God in your heart, avoid all sin, and desire God with all of your self, you should probably not have to worry much about Hell. God cares for His children after all.

 

[1ke]

Wait! So if I commit a Mortal sin, and become very contrite and repent of my sin. I would still go to hell?

Hmmm, I don’t believe I said that. To what do you refer?

Or would that Mortal sin be purged in the Holy Fires of Purgatory?

No.

Those who go to Purgatory are those who died in a state of grace.

 

[po18guy]

CCC 1035 states:

Lets say I am a Catholic and the following happens:

1. 
   *]I go to confession on Saturday
   *]Do my penance
   *]Purposely miss Church on Sunday to go golfing
   *]Die on Monday
   
   According to the CCC, I would go to hell. This does not sound right to me.
   
   I thought that as long as you were baptized and believed that Jesus was your Lord and Savior, that you would burn off sin in purgatory.
   
   Can someone explain this to me?
   
   Thank you!

1. 
   You are telling God that you love Golf more than you do His Son. You are directly violating Jesus’ command to “do this, as often as you do it, in remembrance of Me”
   
   Justice is God’s alone.

 

[coachkfan1]

Actually, the Catholic Church (and the Catechism) simply note the consistent teaching of Jesus. . .that there are sins (mortal) which kill one’s relationship with God unless they are repented and forgiven.

Again the Church and catechism note that the NORM for forgiveness is sacramental confession.

But God is merciful. IF the person in your above scenario repented before death, then God could forgive him.

So the Church does not teach without fail that if Barney blows off church to go golfing and dies on Monday, he WILL go to hell.

The Church teaches that an unconfessed and unREPENTED mortal sin is sufficient that a person would condemn HIMSELF to hell. Whenever or wherever committed.

Big difference.

I surely would like to know where you got the idea of baptism and ‘Jesus as Lord and Savior’ would result in a purgatory burnoff without any need to confess, as that has never been Catholic teaching. Sounds like somebody in trying to explain Catholic teaching was trying to put it in terms that are more used by protestants and didn’t explain it well at all. But that’s all right. That’s why sites like CA are here. They help you figure out what is really Church teaching.

I agree with everything that you have posted, but I did want to suggest that the OP’s idea about baptism and belief come from Jesus Himself saying, “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.” Mk. 16:16. Now I agree completely with Church teaching on the matter, but these are probably the verses from which the OP got his ideas. Which leads me to this question: How do we respond to those who say that all one needs to be saved is belief and baptism.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Heavens no. **If you truly repented, and Confessed your sin, you would be forgiven, and probably not need Purgatory. **The only way to go to Hell is to wilfully reject God and His will in favor of your own. Honestly, so long as you try your very best to live with God in your heart, avoid all sin, and desire God with all of your self, you should probably not have to worry much about Hell. God cares for His children after all.

You know, that is something that I’ve seen debated back and forth. Not to be contrary, but I don’t think that is correct. One is forgiven for sin if one repents and confesses, but that does not mean one does not need the cleansing time in Purgatory. It is my understanding that most people who will eventually end up in Heaven will first spend time in Purgatory.

The analogy that I often have heard is about a kid breaking a window with a baseball. The kid is sorry for breaking the window, so he goes to the homeowner and confesses that he broke the window and apoligizes for doing so. The homeowner accepts his apology and forgives the kid, but the window is still broken. So, the kid still has to pay for the broken window to be replaced even though he admitted he broke the window and said he was sorry.

Make sense? Anybody have any help on this?

 

[mcrow]

I would say that missing mass one time (even on purpose) probably wouldn’t get you sent to hell, if that’s the case few Catholics would be in Heaven. If you never repented of the sin, that might be another issue.

Also, if you suddenly become ill and didn’t have the chance at last rights (so to speak) I would think that your feeling about having missed mass (felt like you were wrong for doing it and sorry) even if you didn’t formally confess it, would be considered.

Basaiclly if you sin, don’t care that you sinned and didn’t confess it when you had a chance to do it then yes, you may go to hell.

 

[George_Stegmeir]

You know, that is something that I’ve seen debated back and forth. Not to be contrary, but I don’t think that is correct. One is forgiven for sin if one repents and confesses, but that does not mean one does not need the cleansing time in Purgatory. It is my understanding that most people who will eventually end up in Heaven will first spend time in Purgatory.

The analogy that I often have heard is about a kid breaking a window with a baseball. The kid is sorry for breaking the window, so he goes to the homeowner and confesses that he broke the window and apoligizes for doing so. The homeowner accepts his apology and forgives the kid, but the window is still broken. So, the kid still has to pay for the broken window to be replaced even though he admitted he broke the window and said he was sorry.

Make sense? Anybody have any help on this?

Great answer:thumbsup:, but getting back to the basic question: If you intentionally miss Sunday Mass, it is a mortal sin. If, by chance you are able to express sorrow for this mortal sin before you die-even though you thought"Lord, have mercy on me a sinner", you will be saved. However, if your are struck down by lightning, so fast that you cannot possibly have had a thought, then, chances are you will go to hell-if for no other reason that you defied one of G*ds Commandments. Sounds not fair? Well life isn’t fair. The idea that there is salvation without contrition is Protestant, not Catholic teaching.

 

[Shin]

‘*“Thou hast broken my yoke and burst my bonds, thou hast said, I will not serve.” *Jer. ii. A child was bid by its father to go on an errand; the child answered, “I shan’t go, I won’t go.” Everybody who heard this answer was shocked. How shocking, then, must it be when any one says to Almighty God, the God who has in his hands thy breath and all thy ways, who can cast a body and soul into hell, “Oh, God! I shall not, I will not do what you bid me!” Mal. iii.: “Shall a man afflict God?” It is Sunday, and you know well that God commands you to hear Mass. You could go to Mass if you liked, there is nothing to hinder you. You refuse to go to Mass; you stop away by your own fault, and commit a mortal sin. It is as if you spoke thus to God: “O Almighty God! I know that you are my Creator, and I am your creature; I know that I ought to obey you and keep your commandments; I know that if I break your commandments, I deserve to go to hell for it. And now I tell you, O God, that I will not keep your commandments. You command me to go to Mass to-day, and I tell you that I will not go to Mass; I will not do your will, but my own will; I know that I deserve to go to hell for it, but I do not care for that.” Wicked child! “you know not what you do,” when you thus break the commandments of God; Luc. xxiii. 34. God wonders that his own creatures, whose body and soul he can cast into hell, should dare thus to despise him. Thus he speaks, Is. i.: “Hear, O ye heavens, and give ear, O earth, for my people have despised me.” He must have a hardened heart who dares thus to despise the majesty of God.’

Fr. John Joseph Furniss, ‘The Great Evil’

‘The Jews crucified Me on Friday, but Christians crucify Me on Sunday.’

Our Lord to Sister Marie de Saint-Pierre, December 2, 1847 A.D.

Basically, Sunday is the Lord’s Day.

It’s His day… The Lord’s… We have a duty to go to Holy Mass, and not only this, but to devote the day to Him in a special way, to think of Him, and to refrain from work on that day. It’s a serious matter, not a light one.

And it’s for our sake that He bids us to go to Holy Mass, and devote this day to Him, and make it a day of peace and rest. For the good of our souls.

But if despite all this, we say to God, that we don’t care what His commandments are…

How simple and small a thing it is to eat an apple, or to not eat an apple.

But when it’s a commandment of God, look at what happened to Adam and Eve, and all of the human race. When it’s a commandment of God, revealed by Him, it is a matter of the highest respect and importance. It’s a sacred duty.

There are things that excuse from going to Holy Mass, and mitigating circumstances that make the gravity of a mortal sin less than it could be. But these are some of the fundamentals of it.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

Wait! So if I commit a Mortal sin, and become very contrite and repent of my sin. I would still go to hell? Or would that Mortal sin be purged in the Holy Fires of Purgatory?

Purgatory happens if and only if you die in a state of grace.

Whether or not you go to heaven after committing a mortal sin depends and then becoming contrite depends on the nature of your contrition and how merciful God is.

If your contrition is perfect, that is based on love of God and including a desire to go to confession when possible, you’re good.

If your contrition is imperfect (motivated by fear of hell or what have you), then you miss the ordinary means of obtaining heaven. Whether or not God applies extra-ordinary means to take you there is up to Him. I would tend to expect that He often would, but am uncomfortable with the assertions that He definitely saves everyone who is somewhat sorry for the sin regardless of confession or not.

 

[SwizzleStick]

I would say that missing mass one time (even on purpose) probably wouldn’t get you sent to hell, . …

Not to be contrary, but the Church does not teach this.

…Also, if you suddenly become ill and didn’t have the chance at last rights (so to speak) I would think that your feeling about having missed mass (felt like you were wrong for doing it and sorry) even if you didn’t formally confess it, would be considered. …

Think of the foolish virgins who did not have oil for their lamps.

If you do not have a chance to go to Reconciliation or to have Last Rites administered, then perfect contrition alone might save you. Only God knows, I do not.

…Basaiclly if you sin, don’t care that you sinned and didn’t confess it when you had a chance to do it then yes, you may go to hell.

In this case, there is no “may” involved. The Church teaches that if you sin mortally, don’t care that you sinned thusly and do not confesss and repent, hell is a certainty.

 

[mcrow]

Not to be contrary, but the Church does not teach this.

If you repent of it, you will not go to hell and that’s my point.

Think of the foolish virgins who did not have oil for their lamps.

If you do not have a chance to go to Reconciliation or to have Last Rites administered, then perfect contrition alone might save you. Only God knows, I do not.

I believe we’re saying the same thing here.

In this case, there is no “may” involved. The Church teaches that if you sin mortally, don’t care that you sinned thusly and do not confesss and repent, hell is a certainty.

I only say may because I’m not God and couldn’t know all of the factors or reasonings He may have. Generally speaking I think that you would go to hell, but there may be exceptions we are not aware of.

 

[SwizzleStick]

If you repent of it, you will not go to hell and that’s my point.

I believe we’re saying the same thing here. …

Okay.

…I only say may because I’m not God and couldn’t know all of the factors or reasonings He may have. Generally speaking I think that you would go to hell, but there may be exceptions we are not aware of.

You know, I was uncomfortable typing it was a certainty because we are called to not judge, but that is what the Church teaches, that unrepentent sinners choose hell, so…

But, I was definitely not comfortable typing that hell is a certainty in that case. I’ll just trust that God’s perfect love and perfect justice will determine outcomes.

 

[wasserfall]

If you repent of it, you will not go to hell and that’s my point.

It depends on what you mean by repent. The Church teaches that mortal sins can be forgiven by perfect contrition. The saints have generally taught that perfect contrition is difficult. That is why the sacrament of penance was instituted by Christ. If it were easy to obtain forgiveness then there would be no need for the sacrament of penance.

I only say may because I’m not God and couldn’t know all of the factors or reasonings He may have. Generally speaking I think that you would go to hell, but there may be exceptions we are not aware of.

Except that it is not the case that we can only guess at what God would do. He has revealed through his Church what is necessary for salvation.

God wants all people to be saved, but He refuses to impose upon the free will He gave us. We cannot be saved unless we want to be saved and then actually do everything necessary for salvation.

 

[Dannel11]

I surely would like to know where you got the idea of baptism and ‘Jesus as Lord and Savior’ would result in a purgatory burnoff without any need to confess, as that has never been Catholic teaching.

I get that idea from the Church. The Church recommends that everyone goes to confession at least once a year. The Pope goes once a week. We all know that venial sin can be purged in purgatory, but if mortal sin cannot be purged in purgatory, then why isn’t the Church recommending daily confession?

According to my examination of conscience sheet, “driving recklessly” is a mortal sin. If it is this easy to commit a mortal sin, then how can anyone get into Heaven? There has to be a way to atone for mortal sin other than confession. I assume that it isn’t as “easy” as being the biggest sinner on earth and then being truly sorry when you die. I assume that if you are a follower of Jesus and you followed his teachings to the best of your ability and by all accounts were a “good Catholic” you should get into Heaven.

My concern is that when I see a statement in the CCC that seems cut and dry on the subject, I wonder if I had been lead astray.