Question about marriage

[Persuader]

Stop jumping the ship. This seems to be a recurring phenomenon. Two points:

1. Should I have defended my gf? No. Did I want to? Yes. Did I stare daggers at Maria? Yes. My gf do not want me to fight her battles, and I know that I shouldn’t intervene. That would displease her. She wants to defend herself, and she is perfectly capable of doing that. If I had defended her, she would appear weak. In this specific situation, Maria embarrassed herself. I’m not going to go into it, but there is some history with Maria, and my gf and Maria are not liking each other.
2. Did my gf ask me a rhetorical question? Yes. I do not believe in God, so when she is praying for the Haitians, I do not think that can help them. However, I know that praying can be nice for the one who is doing it. So on the substance, I agree with Maria, and my gf knows that. That does not mean I am belittling it, but it is something we have to deal with.

 

[newbetx]

Stop jumping the ship. This seems to be a recurring phenomenon. Two points:

1. Should I have defended my gf? No. Did I want to? Yes. Did I stare daggers at Maria? Yes. My gf do not want me to fight her battles, and I know that I shouldn’t intervene. That would displease her. She wants to defend herself, and she is perfectly capable of doing that. If I had defended her, she would appear weak. In this specific situation, Maria embarrassed herself. I’m not going to go into it, but there is some history with Maria, and my gf and Maria are not liking each other.
2. Did my gf ask me a rhetorical question? Yes. I do not believe in God, so when she is praying for the Haitians, I do not think that can help them. However, I know that praying can be nice for the one who is doing it. So on the substance, I agree with Maria, and my gf knows that. That does not mean I am belittling it, but it is something we have to deal with.

What ever happened to “stand by your man”? She’ll remember this. And it will come back if it’s often repeated. She knows where she stands and who stands behind her.

There is a difference between tolerance and support. You don’t have to agree with her, but you do need to support her. If that means leaving your friends who insult her, then that’s what it means. This is another way you show commitment. I think you owe her an apology for not showing solidarity. This is not a small incident as you think it may be. Differences like this grow over the years. And oh, yeah, she’ll probably tell you it’s no big deal.

Today, you may agree on tolerance of an issue, the tension it creates, over time, will take it’s toll. I’m reminded of the line " I may not agree with you but I will defend to the death your right to say it." or something like that. Please consider.

 

[Corki]

FF, sex IS that powerful. It doesn’t matter how many guys are interested in, THIS is the guy that talked her out of her clothes for the first time and she has bonded with him, her FIRST. And that is VERY strong. And right now she is immune to the attentions of other men.

We don’t know how confident she is or isn’t. Often, the people we think should be most confident are most insecure.

This young woman, in her own mind, is virtually married to Persuader.

Now it’s really just about finding the right moment, and I guess we will be officially engaged. Very exciting times. My gf is already talking about marriage arrangements and honeymoon destinations. Seems like double destinations are the new thing. The Maldives and Dubai, or maybe Mauritius and Uganda… glad I’m not paying. So you see, breaking up is not on the agenda at all.** I’d be very surprised if we are not married in time for summer break**.

And now he’s evidently talked her out of the Catholic wedding too! You can’t get dispensations and pre-cana done by summer break.

 

[climer97007]

My gf has been telling me that marriage in a catholic church might be difficult due to the fact that I am not baptized. It seems like we cannot have a sacramental marriage, and that we need a dispensation from the bishop to marry in the church. If granted, we will have a (natural?) marriage. We don’t need to be married in the church as far as I am concerned, but my gf wants it. Two questions:

1. Is it generally difficult to get this dispensation?
2. A “Christian” friend of mine said I could get baptized in the church (protestant), and that would solve it. I would only do it as a technicality, but she said it could be done anyway.
3. I was also told you can marry in a protestant church if one of the parties is baptized, so perhaps we could do that instead?

Seems like you need to decide what you really want and your GF needs to do that same. If she really wants to be married in the Church, the Catholic Church, she needs to petetion her Bishop. No two ways around that. She will likely not be happy if she ignores this, and you don’t want her unhappiness as the starting point with your future bride, right? I am assuming that it is your desire to please her. Hence, your questions here.

I have never asked for such a dispensation. So, I can’t say how hard it is to get.

You could be Baptized Catholic as well, but, what would be the point of that if in your heart of hearts this is only some kind of technicality or obstacle to overcome? In Baptism, Christ is changing you, unless you are set against such change taking place, in which case, what again is the point? Just an obstacle to be managed? I hope not.

You could be married in a protestant church, but, if you have no faith, why take your wife’s faith with such a grain of salt if only to placate her in the first place? Why not honor her and give her her hearts desire? What is her hearts desire? Ask her. When you know her answer, then pray to God about what you ought to do.

Gene

 

[takers]

And now he’s evidently talked her out of the Catholic wedding too! You can’t get dispensations and pre-cana done by summer break.

Not necessarily. My fiancee and I got engaged in October and are getting married in March. We’ve been through Pre-Cana and have gotten dispensation. So, depending on when they’re planning on getting married they could still be getting married in the church.

Back to lurking.

 

[climer97007]

It would help if you could list the 7 levels, and how he argues that sex is not essential to intimacy.

It would help more if you would take the time to consider how you might have an intimate relationship with your father or mother. Can you imagine any intimate relationship with a parent that involves sexuality? If you can begin to think of intimacy in any relationship in non-sexual terms, then you will be ready to consider the 7 Levels:

1. Cliche’s
2. Facts
3. Opinions
4. Hope’s and Dreams
5. Feelings
6. Faults, Fears, and Failures
7. Legitimate needs

Now, it is my guess here that you two may have gotten the cart before the horse, and are now busy compromising your life together to rationalize your ongoing sexual experiences.

You need to understand what you and your GF are doing together. Making compromises before marriage will not likely lead to success. Where is the win-win-win where you, she, and God are all honored and glorified together? Compromise means that someone is losing something that God intended them to have.

Gene

 

[Persuader]

What ever happened to “stand by your man”? She’ll remember this. And it will come back if it’s often repeated. She knows where she stands and who stands behind her.

Today, you may agree on tolerance of an issue, the tension it creates, over time, will take it’s toll. I’m reminded of the line " I may not agree with you but I will defend to the death your right to say it." or something like that. Please consider.

Maria is not a friend. More of an acquaintance. In this specific situation, I did support my gf in the sense that I advertised my displeasure to Maria. My gf handled the situation, and didn’t require me to help her. As I said, she can fight her own battles. Not because I refuse to do it for her, but because it is what she wants and what is best for her.

When it comes to my views on prayer, there is more to it than what was said in this situation. Nevertheless, I obviously don’t believe prayer has any supernatural effects. That is all I am saying, and it will remain that way as long as I do not believe in God.

And now he’s evidently talked her out of the Catholic wedding too! You can’t get dispensations and pre-cana done by summer break.

There will be a Catholic wedding. We have already started the process, and we’ve had several meetings with the priest (marriage preparation) already. The priest is surprisingly pleasant and agreeable, and when my gf mentioned she wanted a spring/summer wedding, he didn’t object or say it was too early.

 

[flyingfish]

It would help more if you would take the time to consider how you might have an intimate relationship with your father or mother. Can you imagine any intimate relationship with a parent that involves sexuality? If you can begin to think of intimacy in any relationship in non-sexual terms, then you will be ready to consider the 7 Levels:

I would never call a parent-child relationship intimate. That to me is a strange consideration of intimacy. I (as an adult) am friends with (one of) my parents, but I would never call it intimate. This is just weird.

The kind of closeness you are (supposed to) have with your mate is far and beyond the closeness you have with friends and family. Sex is a huge part of what makes it so.

 

[climer97007]

I would never call a parent-child relationship intimate. That to me is a strange consideration of intimacy. I (as an adult) am friends with (one of) my parents, but I would never call it intimate. This is just weird.

The kind of closeness you are (supposed to) have with your mate is far and beyond the closeness you have with friends and family. Sex is a huge part of what makes it so.

No, the kind of closeness you are supposed to have with your mate is first, and foremost, the same kind of intimacy that you have first with a parent, brother, sister, or best friend. This is a deep, deep, deeply intimate starting place, and has 7 levels, as I previously posted.

If you have no such intimate relationships with your family or friends, and I mean totally non-sexual intimacy here, as per the previous 7 levels of intimacy, then you are deluding yourself and your future wife. And your utter lack of belief in God means that can in no way share with her an even deeper spiritual intimacy, an intimacy that ought to exist waaaay before any merely physical form of intimacy takes place. But, you have no idea of this, because of your lack of belief, and of your ignorance.

So, for you, the physical life is the end of all things, the deepest place you can go. But to your wife, there are intimacies that are much much deeper. You will be unable to fulfill those depths, and she will have to suffer. It will be her cross to carry for you. I am sorry that you would ask her to carry your own burden. A complete man does not ask his future wife to carry such burdens.

I will pray for you and your wife, as you certainly are in desperate need of the mutual love of God in your lives, though, you see, I am not praying for my own benefit here.

Gene

 

[flyingfish]

No, the kind of closeness you are supposed to have with your mate is first, and foremost, the same kind of intimacy that you have first with a parent, brother, sister, or best friend. This is a deep, deep, deeply intimate starting place, and has 7 levels, as I previously posted.

If you have no such intimate relationships with your family or friends, and I mean totally non-sexual intimacy here, as per the previous 7 levels of intimacy, then you are deluding yourself and your future wife. And your utter lack of belief in God means that can in no way share with her an even deeper spiritual intimacy, an intimacy that ought to exist waaaay before any merely physical form of intimacy takes place. But, you have no idea of this, because of your lack of belief, and of your ignorance.

So, for you, the physical life is the end of all things, the deepest place you can go. But to your wife, there are intimacies that are much much deeper. You will be unable to fulfill those depths, and she will have to suffer. It will be her cross to carry for you. I am sorry that you would ask her to carry your own burden. A complete man does not ask his future wife to carry such burdens.

I will pray for you and your wife, as you certainly are in desperate need of the mutual love of God in your lives, though, you see, I am not praying for my own benefit here.

Gene

I think you’re confusing me with the OP, the OP is Persuader.

I have good relationships with friends and some family members. I’m single at the moment, but I’ve had multiple relationships and there were all far more intimate than anything that I could ever have with friends and family. It’s just a different kind of a relationship, you feel like you’re one with that person. You don’t feel that with friends or family.

To be honest I have to wonder if anyone who compares intimacy in a romantic relationship to intimacy in a family relationship has ever experienced romantic love. There is no comparison.

 

[beckers]

Maria is not a friend. More of an acquaintance. In this specific situation, I did support my gf in the sense that I advertised my displeasure to Maria. My gf handled the situation, and didn’t require me to help her. As I said, she can fight her own battles. Not because I refuse to do it for her, but because it is what she wants and what is best for her.

When it comes to my views on prayer, there is more to it than what was said in this situation. Nevertheless, I obviously don’t believe prayer has any supernatural effects. That is all I am saying, and it will remain that way as long as I do not believe in God.

There will be a Catholic wedding. We have already started the process, and we’ve had several meetings with the priest (marriage preparation) already. The priest is surprisingly pleasant and agreeable, and when my gf mentioned she wanted a spring/summer wedding, he didn’t object or say it was too early.

I will say it again…you think you understand women and you don’t.

I am a strong independent women who is actaully in Law School and i came from a large family. Standing up for myself is not hard. My strength is one of the things my BF loves about me BUT he still stands up for me when we are out and about. It doesn’t mean i am a weak individual or that i need him to step in. He does it because he loves me and wants to protect me even if i don’t need the protection. I like that. Women want a strong man. They want someone who will stand up for them because that means we can lean on them when we have weak moments. We can bring are problems and concerns to them and they will care. You have not shown that to your GF.

You have done the opposite. You dismissed your GF’s feelings. You have now taught her that you aren’t going to be there for her unless she agrees with your positions (God, sex etc…) .You have shown her that she is on her own in all aspects even sex because you can’t stop pleasing yourself even though she has given up sex. Your pleasure is more important then her. Yea you will make a great husband for her.

 

[beckers]

I wouldn’t say it’s that bad. I mean, if I were in his situation, I would have trouble starting a fight of sorts over that. It takes some measure of courage to tell a b*tchy acquaintance to shut it when those around her likely agreed with her.

I wouldn’t attribute that to a “complete disregard”, but more to a lack of courage. I do think he should apologize to her for not having protected her.

I just don’t think sex is that powerful. This young lady by his description is someone very attractive and who has had multiple men show interest. She is not some insecure woman who is latching onto the first guy who’s looked at her, these kinds of people tend to be confident and tend to judge their worth to be high.

I doubt she is staying with him because of the sex. There must be something about him that is making her choose him over all the others.

Sex is hugely important. My firends and i were talking about it the other night. When talking about friends relationship someone mentioned how one girl was going to compromise on moving in with her BF even though he won’t tell his parents…the first questions was “Is he her first” and they said yes. Ever women went “oh…well that expalins it”. Everyone women in the room understood automatically what it meant and why she was doing this. Sex is imprinting. It is a very special occasion. Women’s minds are wired differently. We equate sex not only with sex but with love, committment. We also have the day dream that our first is our only. We will bend over backwards for that dream. The OP’s GF is doing that just like our friend is compromising on moving in with her BF. You do crazy things…

 

[flyingfish]

Sex is hugely important. My firends and i were talking about it the other night. When talking about friends relationship someone mentioned how one girl was going to compromise on moving in with her BF even though he won’t tell his parents…the first questions was “Is he her first” and they said yes. Ever women went “oh…well that expalins it”. Everyone women in the room understood automatically what it meant and why she was doing this. Sex is imprinting. It is a very special occasion. Women’s minds are wired differently. We equate sex not only with sex but with love, committment. We also have the day dream that our first is our only. We will bend over backwards for that dream. The OP’s GF is doing that just like our friend is compromising on moving in with her BF. You do crazy things…

I’m a woman in my 20’s and I’ve had sex. I still think it’s not powerful enough to make an otherwise successful and attractive young woman to stay with a man she otherwise would have identified as bad for her and would have stayed away from.

She chose him in the first place, and not because of sex. She is choosing to stay with him now despite having multiple admirers. From the OP’s description of her, she is intelligent, successful, and active in various areas of life.

She just doesn’t sound to me like a pathetically weak/needy person who would become dependent on a guy just because they’ve had sex.

 

[climer97007]

To be honest I have to wonder if anyone who compares intimacy in a romantic relationship to intimacy in a family relationship has ever experienced romantic love. There is no comparison.

Romantic feelings are not intimacy. I have to wonder if anyone who has had multiple relationships (Physical intimacy only) and who thinks they are more intimate then the relationship that God has with us, that Jesus has with us, that we experience with the Holy Spirit, then, you have no idea what you are talking about, because our first intimacy is with God, not our last, and not our least, but our most and best.

Until you have that, you have a broken and incomplete idea of intimacy. Our intimacy with God has nothing to do with sexual intimacy, or with romantic feelings, it has to do with spiritual intimacy. When you have this, you may begin to understand a new idea of intimacy, and a new idea of romance, and you will begin to understand a depth that is not achievable between mere mortals, no matter how beautiful or romantic they may be. This is the beginning of a new deeper understanding of love itself, let alone feelings of intimacy and romance.

Gene

 

[newbetx]

Please keep on topic here. Focus should be on the OP’s initial question and follow up.

You guys are having a great side discussion and it deserves it’s own thread. Thanks!

 

[climer97007]

Please keep on topic here. Focus should be on the OP’s initial question and follow up. You guys are having a great side discussion and it deserves it’s own thread. Thanks!

Yes, I actually got sidetracked by another poster, however, the same information applies to OP’s relationship with his future wife, as I had him in mind when I wrote this. OP thinks he has a good understanding of intimacy, but, his understanding is constrained to the physical (Sexuality), which seems to be all that he is aware of.

Thanks. Gino

 

[Persuader]

I will say it again…you think you understand women and you don’t.

I am a strong independent women who is actaully in Law School and i came from a large family. Standing up for myself is not hard. My strength is one of the things my BF loves about me BUT he still stands up for me when we are out and about. It doesn’t mean i am a weak individual or that i need him to step in. He does it because he loves me and wants to protect me even if i don’t need the protection. I like that. Women want a strong man. They want someone who will stand up for them because that means we can lean on them when we have weak moments. We can bring are problems and concerns to them and they will care. You have not shown that to your GF.

I could explain the social dynamics of that situation with Maria, but it shouldn’t be necessary. I do agree that most females want a man that is able to protect and defend her. But that doesn’t mean that they want you to demonstrate that ability every time they are challenged. What is most important is that she knows that you are able, and that you want to protect her. This distinction between ability and practice is important to notice. So, if we say most females want a man that is able to protect and defend her, those females will differ in how much they want him to demonstrate his ability to do this. You can think of this as a scale.

When it comes to my gf, I think I am in a better position to know where she is on that scale. Therefore, I think you should rethink what you have said.

Her spiritual life is not completely isolated from me. It is true that we have a difference here that we will need to be mindful of, but we have had intimate moments where she has shared her prayer. It is possible to appreciate prayer without believing she is in contact with the creator of the universe.

 

[climer97007]

Her (GF) spiritual life is not completely isolated from me. It is true that we have a difference here that we will need to be mindful of, but we have had intimate moments where she has shared her prayer. It is possible to appreciate prayer without believing she is in contact with the creator of the universe.

It is just so sad to read your posts. You have no idea what you do not know, and the effects it is already having on you and your fiance.

You pretend to have a deep and abiding intimacy when in fact you can not begin to have authentic intimacy without having the very first intimacy of all human beings, and that is the divine intimacy we were all created to share with the God of the universe. This first intimacy, this divine intimacy, this infinite intimacy is the foundation upon which all others are truly built.

With a personal, abiding, indwelling relationship with the infinite God, there exists a means to measure those intimacies which are less, which are only physical, only emotional, only intellectual, or that are constrained and limited by the mercurial nature of merely human passions. Indeed without this first intimacy, there exists only a pretense of intimacy at one level or another and the blindness that fills those voids.

How do you have authentic appreciation of prayer when you do not believe in God in the very first place? Is this not the definition and height of pretentiousness? How is this kind of pretense on your part healthy? It is impossible to truly appreciate what you do not believe in, though you can certainly pretend to appreciate it, especially since you see a self interst in accomodating her.

I pray that you will begin to see what you have not yet seen, and that is, first, to realize your own spiritual blindness, and then to sincerely seek sight from the only One Who can give it to you, and that One is God.

You are in my prayers! But, according to you, why would that be true?

Gene Climer