P
Paris_Blues
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So…that means…???God already knows what you did, and your innermost thoughts on the subject.
So…that means…???God already knows what you did, and your innermost thoughts on the subject.
I don’t think that the pretzel is mine.Michael, you have twisted this into a pretzelWe know without God grace we can do Nothing,right?We know our good works by themselves merit us nothing,right?What does willfully rejecting Gods grace bring?And what is more serious to betray man or God?If going to Church has been limited to studying scripture and singing and fellowship than you can do that at home you would never have to go to church.If there are no people sent to preach the word,forgive sins,annoint the sick,exorcise demons,and most importantly celebrate the Holy Eucharist,then you would be correct in your analogy,but it would be totally against scripture.God didn’t set up His Church to be legalistic He did it out of love.The Eucharist is strength for the journey and by the way is as full of graces as anything this side of heaven
So in willfully choosing to miss Mass we choose against God,against grace, and in a very real way we decide we are our own God and don’t need Jesus.God Bless
Who would ever endorse such heresy? This is not the Evangelical viewpoint. Maybe some radical non-catholics, but not mine.I guess it’s just as hard for us Catholics to believe the flip; if we truly accept Jesus once, nothign else matters after that.
I Cor 11: 27-29 – Whoever takes communion unworthily or without “discerning the body” brings judgment upon him/herself. How many such transgressions would merit judgment? It seems just one. Even if the person had been going to communion worthily his/her whole life. Is Paul harsh? I guess so. Is he right? Yes. Missing Mass seems a similar transgression against the body.This is hard for me to see in Scripture.
Once saved, you can’t lose salvation, right?Who would ever endorse such heresy? This is not the Evangelical viewpoint. Maybe some radical non-catholics, but not mine.
Michael
All this would tell me is not to take communion if I have sin. It says nothing about missing communion once and being damned forever. The people who did so unworthely “fell asleep” or died, they did not go to hell. To “sleep” does not say anything about their eternal condition does it?I Cor 11: 27-29 – Whoever takes communion unworthily or without “discerning the body” brings judgment upon him/herself. How many such transgressions would merit judgment? It seems just one. Even if the person had been going to communion worthily his/her whole life. Is Paul harsh? I guess so. Is he right? Yes. Missing Mass seems a similar transgression against the body.
So then, it is just apostacy (turning your back on God), not the “moral sin” of missing mass? While I disagree, I can handle this better.michealp,
Your mortal sins don’t send you to hell. Your impentinence of your mortal sins send you to hell.
You can have a “bad day” and commit adultery. If impenitent of such a sin, you risk eternal damnation depending upon full advertence and perfect willfulness while committing such a sin.
If you KNEW without a doubt that Jesus Christ wanted you to worship at the Holy Mass, and you willfully chose not to dine with Him, that would be as grave a sin as any other.
Afterall, how “grave” a sin was eating from a fruit tree? Doesn’t seem that grave, does it? Yet this seemingly small act of disobedient resulted all humanity suffering from it’s consequences, right? Even though it may seem trivial to you, an invitation from God to participate in his Holy Sacrifice as a community is important, and especially if it is known with full advertence to be a serious and divine obligation and with perfect consent of will one defiantly rejects this obligation, this is just as serious a sin as eating from a forbidden fruit tree.
It’s called sloth, and it is a deadly sin for a reason, whether or not one clearly understands the theological bases for that reason.
I agree. Now you’re talking like a Catholic.No. All sins are not equal. All sins evidence an equally depraved nature. Our rejection of God is what ultimately sends us to hell. Sins are just a natural outcome of our depraved nature.
My feelings on the matter are irrelevant. Both are equally in violation of what we understand to be God’s commendments. We already do live in a society in which peoplre miss mass and commit adultery. I do not need to choose one or the other. Again, you miss the point. It’s not me that makes the judgment on whether a person goes to Hell or not. I can only try to do what I believe God commands of me, and that includes attending mass as I am obligated to do and remaining committed to my spouse in accordance with my marriage vows. My own personal opinion as to which sin is “worse” is not relevant to my salvation.I just do. Would you feel worse if you missed mass or committed adultry? Which has the worst consequeces? Would you rather have a society of people who missed mass once or one that was filled with those who committed adultry once? Seriously.
I meant no offense by using the term fundamentalism. If I have offended you, please accept my apology.For you information, Fundementalism is a pejoritive term to Protestants these days. It has become equated with legalism (don’t dance, smoke, or go to movie theaters). I am not a fundementalist although I do hold to the fundementals of the faith.
These statements do not support the salvation doctrine that you hold to. It is my understanding that you believe in the “once saved always saved” idea of salvation. But you also believe that sins are a natural outcome of humanity’s “depraved nature.” Thus, even if a person is “saved” their very human nature will continue to compel them to sin despite their assurance of salvation. My point is that this doctrine reduces salvation to the equivalent of a spiritual “get out of jail free” card? A rational person would have to reject the idea that a just God would allow an unrepentent sinner to enter the gates of Heaven.That is where I am at. But faith will always produce love and good works or it is not faith. We do good works because we are justified, not so that we can be justified. “We love, because he first loved us.”
Depends.Do you really think that missing mass once is worthy of going to Hell?
God comes down to walk with men who obey. If they walk with him, he walks with them. *The Lord can only have fellowship with his servants as they obey. *Obedience is heaven in us, and it is the preface of our being in heaven. Obedient faith is the way to eternal life—nay, it is eternal life revealing itself.
{C.H. Spurgeon, Obedience of Faith, Sermon No. 2195, August 21st, 1890, spurgeon.org/sermons/2195.htm}
Right. Again, I’m making an analogy. There is no proof text for missing Mass. My point that one transgression against communion brought judgment and punishment. So, one transgression against the precept of the Church for Mass attendance can be a mortal sin, and if unrepented send oneself to hell.All this would tell me is not to take communion if I have sin. It says nothing about missing communion once and being damned forever. The people who did so unworthely “fell asleep” or died, they did not go to hell. To “sleep” does not say anything about their eternal condition does it?
So in addition to jeffreedy789’s question,No. All sins are not equal.
can you also explain what you believe are the consequences of sin? (If that’s your follow-up jr789, sorry for taking your thundermichaelp - you seem to be avoiding my question, which is unfortunate, because i have a followup bit that i think will shed light on your dilemma.
if you would be so kind as to share what you believe a person must do to be saved, please?