Question for Catholics: Will you really go to hell for deliberatly missing mass?

[Lisa4Catholics]

michaelp:

You have the Eucharist and Charismatics have their worship experience. My experience comes when God changes lives through His word. We all have our, “If you would only come and experience our . . .” testimony. It is nice.

God Bless You Michael,I still wish you could go to Mass, I could never leave the Real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist.I told you when I prayed I was very specific and against everything I ever thought was rational,He brought me Home to the Catholic Church.I wanted His Truth not mine,I didn’t want to be somewhere because it was comfortable or it agreed with my ideas about God, I wanted the Church He set up,His Tuth and I ultimately got Him in the Eucharist that surpasses any human experience.God Bless You and I am going to continue to pray(also that you attend at least one Mass)

 

[TPJCatholic]

michaelp,

There are many wonderful Christian Churches and traditions, and yes nearly all of them say “come see us,” yet there is a huge difference with Catholic Churches.

First, during Mass Catholics hear and learn about the Word of God, just as with all Christian Churches.

Second, in the Mass Catholics experience the presence of the Holy Spirit, just as with all Christian Churches.

Third, in the Mass Catholics worship the Lord through prayer and adoration, just as many Christian Churches worship the Lord.

Fourth, in the Mass Catholics experience 2,000 years of a sacred rite or ritual, which is not found in all Christian Churches.

Fifth, in the Mass Jesus’ Priesthood re-presents our Lord’s sacrifice on the altar, which is not experienced in all Christian Churches (note, this is not a re-sacrifice of Christ, rather it is a re-presentation of the once for all sacrifice that Jesus made on Calvary Hill).

Sixth, in the Mass Catholics epxerience the absolute saving gift of receiving the actual Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of the Word of God–Jesus Christ. Jesus is the Word, Catholics hear His Word and receive Him, which is not experienced in the real sense in most non-Catholic Christian Churches.

Seventh, in the Mass Catholics experience a deep sense of fellowship and communion with other believers, and more importantly with our Lord Jesus Christ, a communion that is real simply because Jesus comes to us in the Eucharist in His Real Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.

Eighth, during the Mass Catholics experience a deep enfusing of the Lord’s Grace, and while Christians of all denoms receive Grace during worship and prayer, nothing comes close to the Grace one receives during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. We temporarily receive physical and intimate contact with our Lord.

Ninth, The Mass is the most powerful prayer the Lord has given
the world and Catholics experience that power everytime they attend Mass.

Tenth, there have been many Eucharistic miracles throughout the course of history and every encounter with Christ in the Eucharist is a possibility of miracles and transformation.

Eleventh, Jesus Himself said that anyone who eats His flesh and drinks His blood will have eternal life. Everytime a Catholic receives the Eucharist properly, they are receiving that gift. That can only be received in true Catholic Churches with true apostolic Priesthood.

All together, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass provides a period of time for all Catholics during which they are simply drenched with Grace from our Lord–NOW THAT IS FULLNESS OF FAITH, that simply has no equal on earth.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

CatholicCrusade:

Any mortal sin sends you to Hell. I don’t know where you came up with this teaching.

St. Peter committed a mortal sin by rejecting Christ three times. Did he go to hell? If not, then you are wrong when you say that any mortal sin sends you to hell. Mortal sins separate you from santifying grace. Apart from grace, you will go to hell. Thus, impenitence unto death sends you to hell. Final impenitence is what Catholic theology describes as the unforgiveable sin or “blasphemy or the sin against the Holy Ghost.” (cf. St. Thomas Aquinas, *Summa Theologica, *IIb, 14,1).

 

[itsjustdave1988]

rlg94086:

The only technicality IMHO would be that the grave sins are the billion missed Masses, not the “sin of omission”. This distinction is moot…he’s still headed for the fiery furnace.

Thanks Robert. You understood me correctly. I believe missing Mass is a grave sin. Yet I think final impenitence is most grave of all sins, as it is the only sin that is not forgiveable.

 

[Francis_Ocoma]

Michael,

Your main argument seems to be that since you don’t “feel” skipping Mass to be as bad as, say, commiting adultery, skipping Mass should not be a mortal sin. Now that’s very unwise of you. Don’t you see that people do differ very much about what they “feel” is more evil, and that such feelings and opinions could hardly matter in the eyes of God? A thief would naturally think that stealing from someone isn’t as bad as kicking him. A health-buff would think that smoking is much more evil than lying. People might hate fornication with a burning righteousness, and yet consider violence to be something merely unpleasant. The point here is that it is not for you to judge which sins are grave enough for hell and which aren’t.

But if you really want to understand why we Catholics feel strongly about skipping Mass, then I’ll tell you why. We believe that the Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ, and that the Mass is the sacrificial Feast of the Lamb, to which every Catholic is called by God himself. This is not some mere community prayer and worship we’re talking about here; this is something that was commanded to us by Christ: “Do this, in memory of me,” and “Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.” We feel strongly about it because we know what the Mass really is. We feel strongly about it because we know the curse of those who were invited to the Banquet but did not go (Luke 14:16-24). But even if a Catholic doesn’t feel strongly about it, it doesn’t change the fact that willfuly skipping it is a mortal sin.

Your second main argument seems to be that it would be unfair if a Catholic lived all his life being devoted to God and, “just because” he suddenly doesn’t go to Mass without a valid reason and dies without repenting, he goes to hell. But devout Catholics don’t just suddenly skip Mass for wrong reasons. It’s not psychologically probable. What’s more probable is that the Catholic will go through a slow process of doubt, eventually becoming unorthodox enough to dare skip Mass willfuly. In other words, Catholics who commit the sin of skipping Mass most likely lack proper devotion and faith in the first place.

Thirdly, you seem to believe that sin does not hinder one from going to heaven. I therefore advise you to read the Gospels again. You will find that unless men can forfeit their salvation by not repenting their sins, then Jesus must have thrown in some pretty rash and false warnings in his sermons. Are you willing to agree with that?

Fourthly, you make fun of the fact that non-Catholics are not affected by this particular mortal sin, saying that therefore it is better to remain non-Catholic. Casting aside the fact that you’re commiting blasphemy through that statement, I’ll just point out that non-Catholics are affected by other mortal sins, after all, and that they are at a disadvantage for not having the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

Lastly, it is God who judges finally, and therefore nobody can really say that this person or that person has gone to hell. But if you’re going to doubt the Church for being “trivial”, then it is better for you to remember that though it is God who ultimately controls the Door to Heaven, He has given the Key to someone else.

 

[TPJCatholic]

itsjustdave,

You are technically correct with your presentation that final (name removed by moderator)enitence leads to final death, or hell. Yet, practically speaking you are incorrect to say it the way you do.

Jesus made it very clear that we must be on the watch or alert every single day, for we know not the hour or time of our death. If we literally follow your presenation, then it would be easy for us to become flippant about the mortal sins we do commit, thinking we have until the end of our lives to repent (while that is true, the problem is we never know when God will claim our lives). That is why every mortal sin we commit must be forgiven as soon as humanly possible…or we must have the heart-filled intention of going to confession after every mortal sin. I feel your presentation of Catholic teaching is at the root of why so many Catholics do NOT go to confession regularly. People become conformtable and they feel that they have the rest of their lives to seek forgiveness, they been complacent and comfortable. Yet, we know that is a very dangerous way to live.

I respectfully suggest that you re-word your presentation of Catholic theology to include the every day urgency of confessing any mortal sins we might commit.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

TPJCatholic,

Thank you for your critique of my presentation. But if you looked at the context of my posts on this thread, you would know that I don’t advocate waiting until the deathbed to repent of one’s sins.

Anytime you reject the actual grace that God gives, you risk eternal damnation. Yet, if you look to the context of Michaelp’s question, it seems he’s concerned of the implications of a single act sending one to hell. On the contary, even the gravest of sins is forgiveable, excepting one–final impenitence.

Michaelp had an incorrect understanding of Catholic theology, one that seemed to imply that only the objective elements of grave sin are to be considered with respect to the state of one’s soul. On the contrary, Catholicism teaches that the subjective elements, such as a consideration of the impediments to one’s intellect and will are also considered by God, the just and merciful judge, who knows perfectly if and when we act with full advertence and perfect willfulness.

It seemed to me Michaelp’s question stemmed from the consequences of his interpretation of Catholic theology with respect to his deceased sister. My point of assuring him that every mortal sin, even sins as seemingly unimportant as eating from the wrong fruit tree can have grave consequences to the state of one’s soul with respect to God. Yet even the gravest sin does not “send one to hell.” This is an incomplete understanding of Catholic soteriology. My reply, in my opinion, was relevent and accurate given that context. Technically, and most accurately, mortal sin severe’s one’s soul from saving grace, and it is by God’s grace alone that we may attain eternal life.

Thus, by final impenitence alone we are eternally severed from saving grace. Consequently, it is only that sin which can be said to “send one to hell.” Putting everything together, Michaelp can have hope that his sister may have lacked the subjective elements of mortal sin and may not have been severed from saving grace, even if externally to others she appeared to have rejected God. This is in accord with Catholic theology. Furthermore, even if she was objectively severed from saving grace, she may not have remained finally impenitent of the sins she may have formally committed. There’s hope for her, and according to Catholic theology, one can faithfully pray for the repose of her soul to the mercy of God with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ.

 

[buffalo]

michaelp:

Because I have a really hard time equating missing mass with eternal hell. Don’t you understand?

It amazes me how many of us pretend to know how God will judge this.

It’s simple - 4th Commandment - Keep Holy the Lord’s Day - Catholics do this through Mass (and the rest of the day - so often now ignored). Deliberately miss Mass and it is Mortal sin. Die in mortal sin - you go to hell. Die with perfect contrition - Purgatory then Heaven. God will ultimately be the judge, not us. The best we can do is go by what He has taught us.

 

[Robert_in_SD]

michaelp:

All of you have simply said that if a person turns their back on God, Apostacy, they will go to hell. None of you have said that it was missing mass that was the mortal sin, but the heart of the individual behind the mortal sin. Each of you have said that a person would not miss mass unless his heart was evil and deserving of hell because he has rejected God. So, again, apostacy is the sin, not missing mass? But missing mass might evidence this apostacy, but not necessarily, since there might be other reasons besides apostacy (turning away from God) that caused the person to miss mass.

This makes more sense. I just could not get by the fact that someone could believe that missing one mass without a valid excuse necessarily was going to send them to hell. I think that you all might want to find better ways to communicate this if this is the case. You will have people going to mass only so they will not go to hell. That does ot seem like good motivation.

Just my thoughts.

Michael

Deciding to decline an obligation to attend Mass does not necessarily amount to apostacy as you suggest. Again, it depends upon whether the individual making that decision is rejecting his or her entire religion, or whether the individual is simply choosing to put his or her own interests above God’s. The entrance to Hell does not require apostacy as you seem to think. I’m sure there are many Catholics and Protestants (technically heretics, not apostates) in Hell.

And, again you’re misstating the point we’ve all be trying to explain - the act of missing Mass alone will not send you to Hell. It’s dying while not in a state of grace and refusing to repent and ask forgiveness that ultimately sends a person to Hell.

 

[TPJCatholic]

itsjustdave,
Thank you for the detailed clarification and the expanded explanation of your view. Again, everything you wrote is techincally correct with regards to Catholic theolgy and I take no issue with it from a purly theological perspective. I do remain convinced that the approach of speaking so definitively about final (name removed by moderator)enitence does create a problematic situation for many Catholics. I say this because we do not know when our final hour will come, so if we speak about tehological terms as if they are somewhere off in the distance, then that can be dangerously misleading. A given person’s moment or chance of final repentance may come any second, any hour, any day and all talks about repentance should include a sense of urgency…just as our Lord and John the Baptist spoke with great urgency for people to repent and be saved. We must be careful speaking of these topics because true repentance should be a state of mind, not a one-time action at the end of one’s life.

The Pope gives us great witness to the need for a repentant life. He receives the sacrament of reconciliation once a week at a minimum and he has been known to receive it twice a week at times. Now, it is difficult to believe that the Pope is regularly commiting mortal sins, so clearly our Holy Father sees incredible grace and spiritual benefit from regular reception of the sacrament. Our Holy Father sees the need and urgency for a daily repentant life, for he doubtless realizes that he does not know the hour of his own death.

IMO, the watering down of this very truth is one of the truly sad realities of the current Church…many people do not seem to be aware of the need to live a repentant life, with regular use of Jesus’ sacrament of reconciliation. People who attend monthly, or even weekly, have the peace of knowing that they have improved their chance of dying in a state of saving grace (it is not fullproof, yet it does improve the likelihood).

Combine all these matters together and you will see why I feel it is so important to always include the need to live a repentant life during any discussions about salvation.

 

[neophyte]

When I was a Protestant I had thought about the fact that God made us, man and woman, in His own image, how He made us to become one flesh as we join in an amazingly ecstatic and intimate union, and how He refers to the Church as His Bride. My mind always recoiled from where that led me, it seemed blasphemous.

Then, when I became a Catholic, I began to learn a little bit about the Holy Father’s theology of the body, and came to the realization that the Catholic understanding of the union of man and woman is far more radical than anything I’d ever heard in Protestant circles.

We are made in his image, and it is in the holy marital embrace, when we give ourselves fully to our spouse as a free gift of ourselves, each open fully to the nature of the other and to the life that God may bless us with, that we image God most fully.

Recall the redemptive act of the original Passover, in which God redeemed Israel from slavery to Egypt in a prefigurement of His redemption of us from slavery to sin. Then, having passed them through the waters of the Red Sea, He brought them into a covenant relationship, a family bond with Him, after which He repeatedly spoke of Israel as His spouse. Recall also that the Jews believe that, at the Passover meal, they are mystically present at the original Passover in Egypt so long ago

Recall the laws of Levirite marriage and the story of Ruth, in which redemption is intimately tied to the making of family bonds and specifically to the marital union.

Recall what Hosea went through as an image of God’s distress over Israel adulterous affairs with other gods.

Now think about the work of Christ on the cross: the true Passover, the more perfect sacrifice that actually does redeem us from slavery to sin.

Given the pattern of symbols that, in the new covenant, are sacraments that actually accomplish what they are symbolic of; and given the fact that God’s word does not return empty but actually makes real what it says – what conclusion can we come to but that the Church is really the mystical Bride of Christ, that it is, through a most holy union, truly the Body of Christ. It’s not just an image, it’s REALITY. To come to the Eucharistic feast is to return again to the same eternal sacrifice, to be mystically present at the foot of the cross two thousand years ago, to renew our vows, individually and corporally, to our Redeemer, Lord and God.

Need one ask why missing this is a grave affair? Am I to tell my spouse that I missed our anniversary celebration because I was out spending money on prostitutes? God forbid it!

If my car runs into a ditch, or I have to take someone to the hospital, or there is an act of spiritual or corporal mercy to do that results in me missing the date, or I’m emotionally distraught and not thinking straight, it’s still a grave matter but my spouse is gracious and eager to receive me back.

God is a fair judge, quick to show mercy and slow to impose penalty, and so is His Church. He knows our hearts better than we do, and is fully aware of our culpability. If we are not fully culpable, a grave sin is not mortal.

 

[worm]

I’m late comer to this thread just wanted to throw in my two bits.
If people such as myself leave the catholic church, miss 14 years worth of masses and never repent of it,and die.Most in this thread would say I am destined for hell. Does not vatican II state that the “seperated brethren” can still be justified? mike

1 John 5:11- 12 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

 

[Catholic2003]

This is an area of Catholic theology that I don’t quite understand. Why is missing mass a mortal sin as opposed to a venial sin? I thought that mortal sins were violations of divine law. Can the Church create new mortal sins? Did a person who missed mass before the precept was added to canon law in 1917 also commit a mortal sin, or did it not become mortal until the requirement was promulgated?

 

[MooCowSteph]

michaelp:

Because I have a really hard time equating missing mass with eternal hell. Don’t you understand?

I understand what you’re saying. I, too, have a hard time seeing missing Mass and murder or adultery on the same level. However, I know that this is what the Church teaches, and therefore I must accept it. The Church is more knowledgeable in areas of faith than am I. Those who say they see no difference likely are of the same opinion – they see a difference in the severity of the sin but the consequence is the same- hell if unrepented.

 

[Sherlock]

Catholic2003

You asked, “Why is missing mass a mortal sin as opposed to a venial sin?”

It is a direct violation of the Third Commandment. Typically, direct violations of the commandments are mortal sins, and yes, that is a violation of divine law: they’re “commandments”, not “suggestions”. Also, why would you miss Mass? Because you’re extremely sick? Then you are excused: the Church does not ask for what you can’t deliver. There are degrees of culpability, you know, and in some cases (as in being very very sick) one has no culpability because the intent is not to miss Mass, but rather one is unable to. Ditto with persecuted Catholics in countries where the Church is underground…you get the point. Earlier in this post, Michaelp responded to a question about the Third Commandment by saying, “The commandment is to rest and keep the day holy, not (in my opinion), going to mass.” The key phrase to note in his response is, “in my opinion”. Michaelp is his own pope. However, we as Catholics believe otherwise, and “he who hears you hears Me”—we listen to the Church. So, missing Mass is a mortal sin because it’s a violation of the Third Commandment, and we would also be disobeying the Church if we were to make ourselves pope and declare that sleeping in (that’s “resting, ain’t it”?) is our own form of observing the Commandment. Does deliberately missing Mass, with full knowledge and consent, send you to hell? If it’s unrepented of, this means that you have lost sanctifying grace because of mortal sin. It’s that lack of sanctifying grace that will send you to hell.

 

[Exporter]

michaelp:

Lisa, all you are saying to me is that it is not the missing of Mass that is the mortal sin, but leaving the faith. While I have issues with this, it is much easier to accept than saying is someone delibertly misses mass they have committed a moral sin and are going to hell. So, what you are saying is that the Catholic postition is that leaving the faith is the mortal sin and this is evidenced by missing mass. And anytime someone delibertly misses mass they have definitely left the faith?

This would be much easier to understand since they have committed the sin of apostacy. But if it is just missing the mass and not apostacy, this really smells of legalism.

---

I learned years ago that there is GOD’S LAW and then there is CHURCH LAW. Attending Mass each Sunday and Holy Days of Obligation IS Church Law.

But Matt 16:18-19 says what you (the church) loose on earth is loosed in heaven. Jesus said that to Peter & the Apostles. So if the Church said to attend Mass then Heaven agrees with it! You have to confess missing mass. The church teaches ( so heaven agrees) that if you die with an unconfessed mortal sin you go to hell because you yourself separated yourself from Christ and heaven. Laws of the Church are recognised in heaven, listen to the Church.

But, we hear of the great forgiveness and outpouring grace that God has for his children.

Michaelp, your own inner self knows if you have a mortal sin hanging over you. Jesus gave you the Priesthood. All you have to do is confess IF YOU ARE SORRY. Then the slate will be wiped clean and God will have forgotten that sin. Just confess.

 

[DianJo]

MichaelP mentions that missing Mass amounts to apostasy or at least heresy. Here are the definitons from the Catholic Encyclodedia:

Apostasy is the complete and voluntary abandonment of the Christian religion, whether the apostate embraces another religion such as Paganism, Judaism, Mohammedanism, etc., or merely makes profession of Naturalism, Rationalism, etc. The heretic differs from the apostate in that he only denies one or more of the doctrines of revealed religion, whereas the apostate denies the religion itself, a sin which has always been looked upon as one of the most grievous.

Missing Mass does not amount to apostasy or to even heresy. It is, hopefully, until confession, only a temporay state. It is a grave sin and as stated numerous times in previous posts is mortal only when full knowledge and full consent of the will are invovled and will send you to eternal separation from God IF UNREPENTED.

MichaelP, most Catholics KNOW that missing Mass is grave matter. If a Catholic misses Mass because they just don’t feel up to going, that’s not a good reason. More than likely, that Catholic will feel the pangs of guilt and will probably wish that they had not missed Mass knowing they committed a sin. Now this same Catholic will probably know that he needs to get to confession as soon as possible to re-establish the grace necessary to mend his relationship with God. His plan will probably be to go to confession before the next Mass.

Now, if that person dies in car accident before he can get to confession, God knows his intention was there to go to confession. He more than likely will not experience eternal separation from God since he had contrition for the sin and intended to go to sacramental confession.

If that Catholic missed Mass intentionally (with full knowledge and consent) because he just didn’t feel like going because he didn’t really see the necessity in going; deciding on his own that the 3rd commandment was not worth keeping and did not
intend to confess because he didn’t feel it was a sin or that “surely God would not condemn me to hell just for missing Mass,” well, I’m not sure that he wouldn’t experience that eternal separation. Only God knows his heart and what impediment there was for him to misunderstand God’s 3rd commanment; to think that it was not necessary to keep all God’s commandments.

What we are saying is that all we know is what God’s tells us. If He tells us to “Keep the Sabbath HOLY,” well, that means go to church and worship God - not rest and be with family and play around all day. We don’t know all the things that could keep someone from understanding correctly what that means and what circumstances are playing out in a person’s life - only God knows that.

In the end, it is not God who condemns us to forever be separated from him. It is our choice, when we commit mortal sins and being unrepentent, that separates us from God.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Catholic2003,

Catholic2003:

This is an area of Catholic theology that I don’t quite understand. Why is missing mass a mortal sin as opposed to a venial sin? I thought that mortal sins were violations of divine law. Can the Church create new mortal sins? Did a person who missed mass before the precept was added to canon law in 1917 also commit a mortal sin, or did it not become mortal until the requirement was promulgated?

Any sin can be mortal if one has contempt of the Divine will. Catholic theology, however, teaches that imputable acts must be voluntary. To the extent that voluntariness dimishes, imputability also dimishes.

I recommend , John Paul II, 5 July 1998 - Apostolic LetterDies Domini

The Divine Law of the Old Testament, or the Mosaic Law, is commonly divided into civil, ceremonial, and moral precepts. The moral precepts are immutable. Thus, “keeping the Sabbath holy” has civil, ceremonial, and moral aspects to it, but only the moral aspect is immutable.

I have many friends and family that are Sabbatarian Christians (the worship on Saturday and think Sunday worshippers are heretics). Their error is that they do not understand the distinction between ceremonial and civil aspects of the OT Law, which no longer apply to Christians according to the authentic governing ecclesiastical authority, and the moral aspects which will always be binding upon Christians.

Furthermore, “Sins that violate the human or the natural law are also included [among sins that may possibly be mortal], for what is contrary to the human or natural law is also contrary to the Divine law, in as much as every just human law is derived from the Divine law, and is not just unless it is in conformity with the Divine law.” (Catholic Encyclopedia - Sin)

Pope John Paul II discussed the moral aspects on keeping the Lord’s day holy in the apostolic letter above.

Other references that may be useful:
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Moral Aspect of Divine Law
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Sin

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Does not vatican II state that the “seperated brethren” can still be justified?

This simply means that all validly baptized persons are correctly called “Christian” even if they are heretical or schismatic. Yet, formal heresy and schism are damnable sins. So, just because you were once justified through valid baptism doesn’t mean you will necessarily remain justified.

Our separated brethren can commit mortal sin just like Catholics can. If they die impenitent of their sin, they go to hell, just like Catholics. The Holy Sacraments equip the faithful in their lifelong battle with sin. Without the Sacraments, the Christian is not well equipped for this battle.

 

[catholica]

Yes, I understand clearly that sin must be forgiven by our act of asking for forgiveness and/or Confession…but the bus scenario makes me wonder… I cheat on my wife then get hit by a bus without confessing the sin. Is God really so interested in the “Legality” of a Confession despite that Confession was not possible?

What if I were on my way to confession when the ole bus creamed me?

I know it’s putting a magnifying glass on jots and tittles, but I couldn’t help it!

…btw, I’m sure that Akin was misunderstood. I don’t think he would have said “If you miss Mass you’ll go to Hell”.