Question for Non-Catholics...

[theguidedheart]

My Baptist family’s response was even more disappointing than hostility. Apathy… It’s like they didn’t care. That was nearly ten years ago and now my sister comes to my church with me
Eventually I hope that all my family will come to the catholic faith because of my love for them.
“And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.” 1Corinthians 13:13

Peace,
+Nathan

I can relate to this ALOT, this was my experience too when I converted - granted my family is half non-denominational and half non-practicing, they were not Baptism, but nevertheless couldn’t care less, and never even bothered to find out WHY I would become Catholic or what my beliefs were - this was the most disappointing to me.

I would say pray about it, God will always be our first support, I know you know that already…

Peace

 

[theguidedheart]

I can relate to this ALOT, this was my experience too when I converted - granted my family is half non-denominational and half non-practicing, they were not Baptist, but nevertheless they seemed like they couldn’t care less that I was converting, and never even bothered to find out WHY I would become Catholic or what my beliefs were - this was the most disappointing to me.

I would say pray about it, God will always be our first support, I know you know that already…

Peace

 

[jmcrae]

If you don’t want any practical advise, just don’t take it to heart so…Might make people wonder about “protest[ing] too much”…

HEY, give the boy a break - after all, he is a Protest-ant - it just comes naturally to him.

(Just teasing, Mike!!)

 

[Saint_Sinner]

Actually, what the Bible condemns is all contact with the dead.

Didn’t Jesus say that the ‘dead’ in heaven such as Abraham etc were not dead? And to think of them as dead was a great mistake? Mark 12:26-27

 

[Frost]

Just wondering…

If you had a child, whom you raised in your faith, and then as an adult they decided to convert to Catholicism; would you still support them in their decision, such as attend their confirmation? What would you think? What would you say to them?

I’m in the process of converting from Baptist and I really haven’t let my family know yet that I am in the process of doing so(though they know I have been thinking about it)

I guess I’m just frightened because I feel like I’m seperating myself from my family in a way. They won’t listen to why I’m doing this, and I’m afraid if I go too far with discussions it will just make them hostile toward me. Right now its a subject thats avoided. I really would like for them to attend my confirmation at Easter, but I’m not real sure how or when I should approach the subject. Any ideas of insight into what may be best is appreciated.

Thanks

I’m a Lutheren and I would be happy if my children converted to Catholicism. That’s far better than them loosing their Christian faith

You are perfectly capable of finding you’re own religion, and it is you’re human right. You should obey God more than humans. I don’t see the need to discuss anything with them once you’ve made your choice. The bible says one can win another person for Christ without a spoken word, but through a good, Christian life.

Focus on what you and your familiymembers have in common: The risen Lord.

I expect your family will be disappointed, and it is important to show them respect and love. I would have invited them to the confirmation, but if they feel it is wrong for them to attend, you should respect their point of view. That way, you are setting a good example for them by being the respectful one. I understand it must be hard for you if they’re negative. But I think they will get used to the idea sooner or later.

Avoid discussions that can result in serious hostility. Focus on Jesus, on what you have in common. They will be let down, of course, but I don’t think they’ll turn their back on you.

May I ask why you want to convert?

 

[mikemck]

Didn’t Jesus say that the ‘dead’ in heaven such as Abraham etc were not dead? And to think of them as dead was a great mistake? Mark 12:26-27

No, He doesn’t say this. In fact, Gen 25:8 tells us that Abraham did die.

You’re right, though, that the Bible does say that God is the God of the living.

However, it also says that Jesus is the Lord of the living and the dead (Romans 14:9). Interesting that Roman Catholics never want to discuss that little tidbit, nor do they want to tell us who the “dead in Christ” are.

 

[mikemck]

Did you just skim over both my posts altogether. Back in post 49 I showed a few things you said that were dripping with condemnation.

And not once did you show that I condemned anyone or called them any names.

I know you may feel like your on a mission and what not, but humbly check yourself. As I said in that post and as I will repeat:

Review Matthew 7:3.

And as I will repeat, show us where I’ve called anybody names.

 

[mikemck]

You haven’t produced a single Scripture verse that says “people who commit sins were never members of the Christian community (“saved”) in the first place.”

Why should I? I’ve never said this. My Bible says that we all sin.

Which means that, at some point, they made a profession of faith (“got saved” in your terminology) - and then fell away from it.

Actually, that is not Christian terminology.

Nowhere in the Bible does it tell us that repeating a creed or confession saves anyone.

People were already being martyred while Paul was still writing his letters, and some of the people who were being taken away were already renouncing their Christian faith. These are the people that Paul is talking about in his letters, who were once Christians and now are no longer.

Really? Give us an example.

What they said was God-breathed, too, and that, too, has authority. (II Thessalonians 2:15)

Actually, 2 Thess 2:15 doesn’t say that at all.

And you people have the nerve to call me illiterate?

What’s un-Biblical is the idea that we can be completely sanctified in this lifetime.

And I’ve already shown you where the Bible tells us that we are sanctified now.

No one will be “saved” until they are already up in Heaven.

And I’ve already shown you scripture that tells us that we can know that we’re saved now.

 

[jmcrae]

Why should I? I’ve never said this. My Bible says that we all sin.

Sinners can’t go to Heaven. You are not yet “saved” if you still sin.

 

[mikemck]

Sinners can’t go to Heaven. You are not yet “saved” if you still sin.

You’re right. Sinners can’t go to Heaven. That’s why the Bible teaches us that Christ died to make sinner righteous.

Remember, when John told us that we all sin, he was writing to those who were already saved.

 

[jmcrae]

You’re right. Sinners can’t go to Heaven. That’s why the Bible teaches us that Christ died to make sinner righteous.

Yes, and He makes us righteous by pouring His blood and the water from His side over our souls to wash them clean through the Sacraments of the Church that He established while He was still on the earth, with Peter at its head.

Remember, when John told us that we all sin, he was writing to those who were already saved.

He was writing to people who were still on the earth - we’re “saved” (past tense) when we actually get to Heaven. But we are “being saved” as long as we are part of Christ’s Church and doing as He commands.

 

[tigerlily]

Just wondering…

If you had a child, whom you raised in your faith, and then as an adult they decided to convert to Catholicism; would you still support them in their decision, such as attend their confirmation? What would you think? What would you say to them?

I’m in the process of converting from Baptist and I really haven’t let my family know yet that I am in the process of doing so(though they know I have been thinking about it)

I guess I’m just frightened because I feel like I’m seperating myself from my family in a way. They won’t listen to why I’m doing this, and I’m afraid if I go too far with discussions it will just make them hostile toward me. Right now its a subject thats avoided. I really would like for them to attend my confirmation at Easter, but I’m not real sure how or when I should approach the subject. Any ideas of insight into what may be best is appreciated.

Thanks

i’ve often thought of converting to the rcc but my family are like yours. i’ve stopped talking about it as it really seems to upset them but i think i’m not quite strong enough but you definetly are as you’re actually doing it! (good for you by the way!!!)

i think once you’re confirmed they’ll realise you’re serious and if they love you (which of course they do!), they’ll accept it. they can obviously see its not a whim! matters of faith are so touchy but if we all accept each other’s beliefs, there need not be any hostility.

tell them you love them dearly but this is what is in your heart! i sometimes wonder why people in general get so het up about religion and yet accept the unacceptable eg lifestyle choices which go against morality and god.

i think you’re marvellous so keep going and stay strong!

 

[mikemck]

Yes, and He makes us righteous by pouring His blood and the water from His side over our souls to wash them clean through the Sacraments of the Church that He established while He was still on the earth, with Peter at its head.

Or then there’s the Christian teaching.

He was writing to people who were still on the earth - we’re “saved” (past tense) when we actually get to Heaven.

So then why does the Bible tell us that we can know that we’re saved now? Why does it keep on referring to salvation in the present tense?

 

[jmcrae]

Or then there’s the Christian teaching.

If by “Christian” you mean what Christ taught, I’ve just given you that. He established the Sacraments, not because He was bored for 33 years living on the earth and needed some way to occupy His time until the Crucifixion, but rather, He established them for us to actually use.

So then why does the Bible tell us that we can know that we’re saved now? Why does it keep on referring to salvation in the present tense?

It speaks of it in the present tense because we are in the process of being saved - we are being given grace, we are being washed from our past sins, and we are in the process of learning how to avoid committing them any more - but you will never find it being used in the past tense (a finished process), unless the writer is speaking of persons who are already in Heaven - unless the writer is saying here’s how things will be for those who persevere in faith, or speaking about people who have already passed on and are known to be Saints - but never in the past tense about people still living.

 

[mikemck]

If by “Christian” you mean what Christ taught, I’ve just given you that.

No, you gave us Roman Catholic dogma.

It speaks of it in the present tense because we are in the process of being saved

Again, if we’re in the process of being saved, then why does the Bible say that we can know now that we are saved now? Why does it keep on referring to salvation as something that we can know that we already have?

but you will never find it being used in the past tense (a finished process), unless the writer is speaking of persons who are already in Heaven

No, Paul says several times “you are saved”, speaking to those in the church he is addressing. He says, “that you may know that you are saved”, speaking to those in the church he is addressing.

These people are not in Heaven. They’re very much alive. That’s why Paul is writing to them.

but never in the past tense about people still living.

And I disagree. He speaks several times in the NT about those still living knowing that they are saved.

 

[jmcrae]

No, you gave us Roman Catholic dogma.

Which is given to us by Christ Himself, and I am not ashamed of Christ.

Again, if we’re in the process of being saved, then why does the Bible say that we can know now that we are saved now? Why does it keep on referring to salvation as something that we can know that we already have?

We can certainly know whether we are in a state of grace or not - no one is saying that we can’t. If I die right now, I know where I’m going, whether to Hell or to Heaven, and I can take steps to make sure I’m going to go to Heaven, by following the teachings of Christ and heeding the warnings of St. Paul.

What I don’t know, and can’t predict with absolute certainty, is my own future behaviour. Will I choose to commit a mortal sin in ten years time, or five years, or even tomorrow afternoon? I hope not, but I can’t say that I definitely won’t.

Will I become hard-hearted and not care if I get to Heaven? Again, I certainly hope not, but better people than me have given up their Christian faith to become agnostics, atheists, or pagans - I can’t say with absolute certainty that I will persevere through the same kinds of trials that have destroyed others - that would be sheer pride.

 

[mikemck]

Which is given to us by Christ Himself, and I am not ashamed of Christ.

No, which was given to you by men. Jesus Christ will not contradict Himself.

We can certainly know whether we are in a state of grace or not - no one is saying that we can’t.

We’re not talking about the Roman Catholic doctrine of “a state of grace”. We’re talking about the Biblical teaching of salvation.

If I die right now, I know where I’m going, whether to Hell or to Heaven

If you don’t know which, then you’re not saved.

and I can take steps to make sure I’m going to go to Heaven, by following the teachings of Christ and heeding the warnings of St. Paul.

And when do you plan to start doing these things?

Will I become hard-hearted and not care if I get to Heaven? Again, I certainly hope not, but better people than me have given up their Christian faith to become agnostics, atheists

If you’re saved, you can’t become an atheist. It’s illogical.

In order to be saved, you must have a relationship with Jesus Christ.

If one says that he had a relationship but now does not believe that Jesus Christ exists, then he either did not have the relationship or he cannot honestly say that Jesus Christ exists.

 

[jmcrae]

No, which was given to you by men. Jesus Christ will not contradict Himself.

Christ gave us the Sacraments, and we use them. There is no contradiction.

If you’re saved, you can’t become an atheist. It’s illogical.

It happens to “saved” people all the time. Half the people in my college Bible study class (which was run by Campus Crusade) are currently not practicing Christianity in any form whatsoever.

In order to be saved, you must have a relationship with Jesus Christ.

If one says that he had a relationship but now does not believe that Jesus Christ exists, then he either did not have the relationship or he cannot honestly say that Jesus Christ exists.

I was there - I knew these people well; we lived in the same dorm. They weren’t just playing at being Christian; they were the real deal - born again, sanctified, justified, and eternally secure. Billy Graham looked positively timid, next to these people. They were madly in love with Jesus Christ at that time, they had a very strong prayer life, they were leading others (including myself) to Jesus - and 20 years later, maybe they would say that they don’t know whether He exists or not, but they were very sure of it back in those days, and they lived the life.

If anyone had told them back then that they could ever fall away, they would have laughed and said “No way - I am eternally secure, and I will be a Christian until the day I die.”

If they couldn’t know that they didn’t “really” have a relationship with Christ, then nobody can. I just go by the evidence - they did have a real relationship with Jesus, and they have now lost that relationship, due to a lack of perseverence and due to sin.

 

[mikemck]

It happens to “saved” people all the time. Half the people in my college Bible study class (which was run by Campus Crusade) are currently not practicing Christianity in any form whatsoever.

Either they weren’t Christians or they’re not an atheist.

Salvation requires that we know Jesus Christ. You cannot know Christ and then not believe in Christ.

Either you didn’t know Him then, or you cannot honestly say that you do not believe in Him now.

I was there - I knew these people well; we lived in the same dorm. They weren’t just playing at being Christian; they were the real deal - born again, sanctified, justified, and eternally secure.

And how would you know this?

Billy Graham looked positively timid, next to these people. They were madly in love with Jesus Christ at that time, they had a very strong prayer life, they were leading others (including myself) to Jesus - and 20 years later, maybe they would say that they don’t know whether He exists or not, but they were very sure of it back in those days, and they lived the life.

Not knowing whether Jesus exists isn’t atheism. It’s agnosticism.

If you don’t even know what atheism is, then you probably shouldn’t be declaring people atheists.

Did you know that the Bible tells us that there are false converts? People who live a Christian-like life, but who are not saved?

If they couldn’t know that they didn’t “really” have a relationship with Christ, then nobody can. I just go by the evidence - they did have a real relationship with Jesus, and they have now lost that relationship, due to a lack of perseverence and due to sin.

But that they’re living a sinful lifestyle isn’t evidence that they’re not saved, the Bible says that it’s evidence they never were saved.

 

[jmcrae]

Either they weren’t Christians or they’re not an atheist.

You’re denying reality. They were Christians. They now are not Christians.

Salvation requires that we know Jesus Christ. You cannot know Christ and then not believe in Christ.

Yes you can. People do it all the time. We live in time. We grow and change. The things of childhood and youth become forgotten. A youth can have a very strong relationship with Christ during the college and early career years. Then, something happens that pulls him away from the practice of his faith - he falls in love with someone who does not share his beliefs, or he gets a job that requires him to be in remote places where there are no churches, or he simply becomes busy with the day to day of staying alive in this material world. The things of youth, including his relationship with Christ, are first neglected, and then entirely forgotten.

If you were with someone all day every day for months on end, then you had a relationship with them, right? But, if you haven’t spoken to them in 20 or more years, then you no longer have that relationship, do you?

That’s how it is with some people, and Jesus. They have a relationship with Him when they are young, and then when they get older, they lose it. Losing it doesn’t mean that they never had it, though.

Either you didn’t know Him then, or you cannot honestly say that you do not believe in Him now.

And yet, it happens.

And how would you know this?

Because they told me, and because I lived with them and saw how they lived. They were definitely Christians. They were not pretending in public, and then doing something else in private, and they certainly weren’t trying to impress anyone.

Did you know that the Bible tells us that there are false converts? People who live a Christian-like life, but who are not saved?

Of course, but these people were never just pretending.

But that they’re living a sinful lifestyle isn’t evidence that they’re not saved, the Bible says that it’s evidence they never were saved.

Then why does St. Paul continually warn Christians not to fall away? If we can’t fall away, then why discuss the ways to avoid this at such great length, in every letter of his?