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latinmasslover
Guest
To those of you who dislike the new rite but still attend because, technically (assuming the 4 conditions are met) it’s valid: how do you get through it without losing your peace?
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ericka1701
Guest
I offer my anguish up to God every time I hear handclapping, priests talking to parishners during the homily, and other aspects that I don’t like. I also try my best to go with the intention of first, worshiping God and the Blessed Sacrament (whether or not I can actually physically partake), but second, trying to learn something that will make me a better Catholic Christian. Since I have changed my tune somewhat, it has become much more tolerable for me. I still very much prefer TLM. Knowing that I was going to go to a TLM this Sunday helped me not lose my peace Christmas Eve “Midnight” (at 10pm) Mass. And ya know what? The Christmas Eve Mass was a sacred time for me, I did get to worship God, and I was presented with new perspective with something I’ve been struggling with during that homily and I’m trying to implement changes.
I am also reminded of Paul’s statement about the Holy Spirit being able to translate and intercede with inexpressable groanings. While this isn’t technically inexpressable groanings during Mass (and those are usually coming from me
), I trust the Holy Spirit will let me hear what I need to hear to make it out with sanity intact.
God Bless!
Ericka
I am also reminded of Paul’s statement about the Holy Spirit being able to translate and intercede with inexpressable groanings. While this isn’t technically inexpressable groanings during Mass (and those are usually coming from me
), I trust the Holy Spirit will let me hear what I need to hear to make it out with sanity intact.God Bless!
Ericka
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Mary1973
Guest
I go to one NO which is very reverent. As erica1701 wrote, I just try to focus on worshipping God.
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ASD
Guest
It’s not easy. I usually start joking with the Lord about my feeling of alienation by silently praying: O Lord, I thank Thee that I am not like other men . . …
(Lk 18:11)No, seriously, I try to take BXVI at his word when he says that the two forms of a single Roman rite can be mutually enriching. So, when I end up at OF for some reason, I try to appreciate the aspects of Christian life that are emphasized more in OF.
Here’s my comparison between the two forms. Notice, e.g., OF emphasizes Church as Body of Christ, etc.
[BTW, since I use that for teaching, I would be glad for any suggestions or corrections.]
ASD
Traditional Latin Mass: Translation and Grammar
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I_Believe
Guest
Short answer, prayers of Reparation.
And as ASD mentioned, I embrace our Holy Father BXVI’s words without question or reluctance.
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malachi3
Guest
I can’t.
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Spera_in_Deo
Guest
It is extremely difficult to attend the NO and not sin in the process due to the revulsion engendered by the plethora of liturgical abuse.
However, I attempt to “offer it up” and find some peace in doing so.
And yes, there are a few parishes celebrating the NO that do so in the manner intended with little liturgical abuse. One may only hope that this number may grow in the future.
However, I attempt to “offer it up” and find some peace in doing so.
And yes, there are a few parishes celebrating the NO that do so in the manner intended with little liturgical abuse. One may only hope that this number may grow in the future.
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Torroidial
Guest
“technically it’s valid?”
It’s valid, period. It’s the Ordinary Form of the Mass in the Catholic Church.
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Torroidial
Guest
I’m sorry, but I cannot remain silent.
You are inferring that because it’s a OF Mass it’s more apt to be liturgically abusive? That’s just not so except there must be something like 10K OFs for every 1 EF celebrated in the USA. Both the EF and the OF have and are abused, sad to say.
You feel “revulsion” towards the Mass? Perceived abuses or not you need to talk to someone about that!
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James0235
Guest
Mass is valid if there is the proper form, matter, and intent. If one of these is missing then you have an invalid Mass (which technically would be no Mass at all),
I have seen quite a few Masses that really pushed proper form to its absolute limits. And when a priest is willing to abuse the source and summit of our faith in such a manner I can see where it would raise questions as to whether he had the proper intent.
James
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James0235
Guest
In the future you may wish to actually read what someone writes before responding so rudely.
Here is what was said:
At no point did Spera in Deo say that he feels revulsion towards the Mass. He said that he feels revulsion towards a Mass full of Liturgical abuses. Big difference here.
According to the Church:
Whenever an abuse is committed in the celebration of the sacred Liturgy, it is to be seen as a real falsification of Catholic Liturgy. St Thomas wrote, “the vice of falsehood is perpetrated by anyone who offers worship to God on behalf of the Church in a manner contrary to that which is established by the Church with divine authority, and to which the Church is accustomed”.
Redemptionis Sacramentum 169
Everyone should feel revulsion towards such Masses. The question here is why don’t you.
Perhaps you need to talk to someone about that!
James
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James0235
Guest
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ericka1701
Guest
The neighboring parish (about 30 miles away from where I live) that celebrates the EF of the Mass is very reverent and from the few times I been, from what I can see, there are no liturgical abuses done for the OF. My home parish (about 3 miles away) is a bit lax in that area, but mostly when there is a “packed house” so to speak. The 2 Masses celebrated during the week (where there might be 10 people… small Catholic population where I live) don’t have me revulsed as far as liturgical abuses go. I actually really like celebrating the weekday Masses. For some reason, though, there is a different feel for the one held on Sunday. 
Not sure what that’s all about.
God Bless!
Ericka
Not sure what that’s all about.God Bless!
Ericka
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ASD
Guest
Oh, come on. That seems like blaming the victim.
Sure, “revulsion” is strong language. But, IMHO, we should try to hear and understand what Spera in Deo is saying rather than scolding.
If you meant to offer helpful, practical, useful advice, the question is: Talk to whom? Say what?
I can’t help but think of silly Michael Moore. So, how about: Dude, where’s my Church?
ASD
Traditional Latin Mass: Translation and GrammarThe OF is not the problem. The problem is with the priests and “liturgists” who think that the OF gives them license to do whatever they want. The Ordinary Form’s rubrics, while they may be more relaxed than the Pius V Missal, are still stringent enough not to let the liturgy get out of control. I have no problem with the Ordinary Form; in fact, I really love the Ordinary Form, and I so wish it were celebrated with the reverence and dignity the Church wanted.
However, I’m beginning to appreciate the EF on its own merits, after all, this is the Mass that fed countless saints and martyrs. But it does not detract from my loyalty to the OF, which I will still attend if impeded from the EF or the Divne Liturgy. I still pray the Ordinary From of the Divine Office, i.e. the Liturgy of the Hours, and I stick to the rubrics; at least, that’s under my control.
But the fact remains: unless someone can point me in a good direction, the vast majority of OF Masses in Calgary are poorly celebrated, there are too many “children’s” Masses, and standing at the Consecration seems to be a universal practice. In a few churches I’ve attended, there are drums, Protestant “praise and worship” music, and the use of unapproved liturgical and lectionary texts. It’s really painful, especially because I know what a reverently-celebrated OF Mass looks like. Moreover, it appears (I may be wrong) that Canadians don’t seem to care as much as the Americans.
However, I’m beginning to appreciate the EF on its own merits, after all, this is the Mass that fed countless saints and martyrs. But it does not detract from my loyalty to the OF, which I will still attend if impeded from the EF or the Divne Liturgy. I still pray the Ordinary From of the Divine Office, i.e. the Liturgy of the Hours, and I stick to the rubrics; at least, that’s under my control.
But the fact remains: unless someone can point me in a good direction, the vast majority of OF Masses in Calgary are poorly celebrated, there are too many “children’s” Masses, and standing at the Consecration seems to be a universal practice. In a few churches I’ve attended, there are drums, Protestant “praise and worship” music, and the use of unapproved liturgical and lectionary texts. It’s really painful, especially because I know what a reverently-celebrated OF Mass looks like. Moreover, it appears (I may be wrong) that Canadians don’t seem to care as much as the Americans.
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brotherhrolf
Guest
Indeed. And it all started before the First Sunday of Advent in 1969. It took me till 1983 to find my reverent OF parish - the only abuses I have ever seen were at diocesan events - to the point where I refused to sing at diocesan events - you want to bring out liturgical dancers wafting bowls of incense and waving 10’ high banners with ribbon streamers, fine. I cannot in good conscience participate.
It has never been about the rite for me. My protestant father began attending Mass with us in 1970 and was laid to his eternal rest as a Catholic. DW’s protestant mother was laid to her eternal rest as a Catholic too. I can’t help but think the OF had something to do with this. The OF is not the problem.
Our indult parish is our “next door” parish. It is strictly Low Mass. I didn’t grow up with strictly Low Mass. I grew up with the dialogue Mass and various forms of “High Mass”. I grew up responding in Latin, singing chant, and singing Latin hymns - all of which I can do (on occassion) at my reverent OF parish.
I have tried attending the earliest Mass at my geographic parish in the hopes that the abuses would be fewer. Sadly, no. I tried “offering it up”. I’d rather drive 25 miles as I have done all of these years. But it is not the OF.
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Ghoti
Guest
I’m surprised – I figured Calgary (and Alberta in general) would be more conservative than either the Left Coast or us Eastern bustards who freeze in the dark.
Here in Toronto, Holy Family (King & Dufferin) and St Vincent de Paul (Roncesvalles near Queen) are run by the Oratorians of St Philip Neri; the Shrine of the Little Flower in Scarborough is FSSP. Holy Cross Parish (Cosburn & Donlands), which always had a reverent, by-the-book English liturgy, now has Latin weekday Masses (FSSP; same priests as the Shrine).
These are pretty much the only ones I’ve been to regularly.
The other ones I’ve been to once or twice:
- St Michael’s Cathedral, Church & Shuter. The Archdiocesan church. Choir provided by St Michael’s Choir School. Went to Midnight Mass there. Beautiful and reverent, but I don’t consider “City of God” to be a Christmas hymn.
- St Basil’s, Bay south of Bloor (Basilian Fathers). Beautiful church, straightforward Mass.
- St Patrick’s Parish, Queen & McCaul. Redemptorists. Another beautiful church. Didn’t stay for Mass, I just happened to be walking by and decided to visit. I do remember a lot of people praying in the church, and one fellow in the main aisle, hands clasped, advancing on his knees toward the altar.
Our Lady of Lourdes, Sherbourne south of Bloor. Jesuits. Some of the Fathers were at St Pius X church and Gonzaga high school back when I was there. Only there once, nothing sticks out in my mind.
St Peter’s, Bathurst subway station. Paulist Fathers. Not the most traditional, IMHO – stripped-down architecture, plain table altar, guitar player in the sanctuary, priest giving the homily from the centre aisle, can’t follow the Mass in the missalettes, etc.
It’s hard for me to tell for the Masses I went to over a year or so ago. As I have stated many times before, I grew up thinking of the OF as “the” Mass. I knew nothing about “abuses” or the GIRM – all I knew was what was either in the Living with Christ missalette or the Catholic Book of Worship, and whether the priest “changed the words”. I do remember some things I saw which prompted me to think, “Can he do that?”, others which got me thinking “Is he making this up as he goes along?” Only after coming here have I found that there actually is a set form for the Mass that is not supposed to be deviated from.
Parish to parish, I guess it’s hit-or-miss as to the particular reverence/fidelity of the Mass, depending on each pastor, except where the parish is administered by an order, in which that order’s philosophy would shine through, I imagine.
As for Canadians caring less than Americans – what brings you to that conclusion? (Not that I’m disagreeing, I just want to know your views.)
Well, as I said, I could be wrong. Other than you and me (and I’m not even a Canadian, yet), I haven’t really seen many Canadians screaming bloody hell on these forums over liturgical abuses.I’m surprised – I figured Calgary (and Alberta in general) would be more conservative than either the Left Coast or us Eastern bustards who freeze in the dark.
Here in Toronto, Holy Family (King & Dufferin) and St Vincent de Paul (Roncesvalles near Queen) are run by the Oratorians of St Philip Neri; the Shrine of the Little Flower in Scarborough is FSSP. Holy Cross Parish (Cosburn & Donlands), which always had a reverent, by-the-book English liturgy, now has Latin weekday Masses (FSSP; same priests as the Shrine).
These are pretty much the only ones I’ve been to regularly.
The other ones I’ve been to once or twice:
St Edith Stein, Thorncliffe Park (Carmelites of Mary Immaculate). Share space with Thorncliffe Park United Church, so you can imagine the architecture.
- St Michael’s Cathedral, Church & Shuter. The Archdiocesan church. Choir provided by St Michael’s Choir School. Went to Midnight Mass there. Beautiful and reverent, but I don’t consider “City of God” to be a Christmas hymn.
- St Basil’s, Bay south of Bloor (Basilian Fathers). Beautiful church, straightforward Mass.
- St Patrick’s Parish, Queen & McCaul. Redemptorists. Another beautiful church. Didn’t stay for Mass, I just happened to be walking by and decided to visit. I do remember a lot of people praying in the church, and one fellow in the main aisle, hands clasped, advancing on his knees toward the altar.
Our Lady of Lourdes, Sherbourne south of Bloor. Jesuits. Some of the Fathers were at St Pius X church and Gonzaga high school back when I was there. Only there once, nothing sticks out in my mind.
St Peter’s, Bathurst subway station. Paulist Fathers. Not the most traditional, IMHO – stripped-down architecture, plain table altar, guitar player in the sanctuary, priest giving the homily from the centre aisle, can’t follow the Mass in the missalettes, etc.
It’s hard for me to tell for the Masses I went to over a year or so ago. As I have stated many times before, I grew up thinking of the OF as “the” Mass. I knew nothing about “abuses” or the GIRM – all I knew was what was either in the Living with Christ missalette or the Catholic Book of Worship, and whether the priest “changed the words”. I do remember some things I saw which prompted me to think, “Can he do that?”, others which got me thinking “Is he making this up as he goes along?” Only after coming here have I found that there actually is a set form for the Mass that is not supposed to be deviated from.
Parish to parish, I guess it’s hit-or-miss as to the particular reverence/fidelity of the Mass, depending on each pastor, except where the parish is administered by an order, in which that order’s philosophy would shine through, I imagine.
As for Canadians caring less than Americans – what brings you to that conclusion? (Not that I’m disagreeing, I just want to know your views.)
Then, again, there are 10 times as many Americans as there are Canadians.
I sure hope I’m wrong, and that Canadians will indeed scream bloody hell, but the CCCB has not really been doing much of anything in the area of liturgy, and even the Canadian Ordo endorses inclusive language for the Mass texts, even going so far as to suggest changes.
But I’m profoundly thankful to God for St. Anthony’s Parish and Assumption Ukrainian Catholic Church for the wonderful liturgies they celebrate. Well, the St. Anthony OF, while not riddled with abuses, still celebrates children’s Masses (albeit in conformity with the directives from Rome) and suffers from poor song choices (e.g. Haas, Haugen). But they stick to the texts otherwise. But St. Anthony’s EF is just amazing.
By the way, we Albertans have been freezing too.
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Lainey63
Guest
I used to get upset and then I found out that in itself is probably more displeasing to God. Today I focus on God and praising Him, Thanking Him & imploring His Mercy for myself and my family. I also concentrate and pray from my heart to prepare my heart to receive Jesus in the Most Holy Eucharist. I try to devote all my attention and heart & soul to Him. I’ve come to the conclusion that I don’t know half the things I thought I did as it pertains to God. This is my time with God and as one who has had an extensive history of being in mortal sin most of the time…(not making it from confession one week to Sunday Mass the next) I am ever so grateful that God has been merciful to me and now I can go to church and receive Jesus in Holy Communion and I go as often as I am able…and for that I am ever so grateful and blessed.
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mattwcu
Guest
When I am finding the OF difficult to handle, I just look at the crucifix and say to myself “If he suffered, so can I.”
I ponder on the wounds of Christ and consider the abuses going on in front of me, or even just the lack of reverence. It helps me unite to the sacrifice going on on the altar.
This works with other things too, not just abuses. Screaming babies at either version of the Mass, a bad singer or organist, or the like can also be used to meditate on the wounds of Christ.
Just a thought, hope it helps.
I ponder on the wounds of Christ and consider the abuses going on in front of me, or even just the lack of reverence. It helps me unite to the sacrifice going on on the altar.
This works with other things too, not just abuses. Screaming babies at either version of the Mass, a bad singer or organist, or the like can also be used to meditate on the wounds of Christ.
Just a thought, hope it helps.
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