Question on Islam -- round 4

[jakasaki]

Adultery and fornication are major sins in Islam, and that’s ironic because Mohammed comitted adultery and fornication when he slept with his slave.

When a person comes up against a truth which contradicts their view of someone, they either change their view or they excuse the person’s actions (a form of denial). Ask Muslims whether or not Mohammed had sinned when he slept with his slave and you’ll see what I mean.

But Islam has already come up with an excuse on adultery, and it is not only discriminary but ingenius: in order for a person to have committed adultery, there must be four male witnesses present. If there aren’t, than the person has not committed adultery.

There were no males present when Mohammed slept with his slave, so according to Islam, he did not sin.

I posted this earlier in another thread…

**It is permissible to have intercourse with a slave woman, even if she is not Muslim, because she is part of “what one’s right hand possesses,” and Allaah has permitted “what one’s right hand possesses” without stipulating that the slave woman be a Muslim. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): **

“And those who guard their chastity (i.e. private parts, from illegal sexual acts)

1. Except from their wives or (the slaves) that their right hands possess,… for then, they are free from blame”

islamqa.com/en/ref/45645

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[swariffin]

Adultery and fornication are major sins in Islam, and that’s ironic because Mohammed comitted adultery and fornication when he slept with his slave.

You should use “slept” instead of slept, brother. Nothing wrong can be done when a man actually sleep with a woman. Many things can be done when a man “sleep” with a woman. (Just kidding…)

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

…Yeah God will judge us alright but it will not be on the basis of the Koran it will be on the basis of the real final holy book THE BIBLE

So , u don’t know your Lord allowed slave girls for OT figures . U want to say on the final day , God will disagree what His son approved in OT & will burn Muhammed (p) with those OT figures including Prophets in
fire ?

 

[Benjamin8o8]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

So , u don’t know your Lord allowed slave girls for OT figures . U want to say on the final day , God will disagree what His son approved in OT & will burn Muhammed (p) with those OT figures including Prophets in
fire ?

who had slave girlsin the OT?? I wasn`t aware of that!!!

please provide proof (verses)

 

[Aydan]

who had slave girlsin the OT?? I wasn`t aware of that!!!

please provide proof (verses)

don’t you just love how she makes the things up without providing proof?

 

[Aydan]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

So , u don’t know your Lord allowed slave girls for OT figures . U want to say on the final day , God will disagree what His son approved in OT & will burn Muhammed (p) with those OT figures including Prophets in
fire ?

I read the Old Testament and that is not in there. I don’t know honestly what will happen to Mohammed on judgment day all I know is that Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior said I am the way truth and life. That’s all I care about. Whatever God chooses to do with Mohammed is not my business. That is God’s decision not mine but the Bible does say there will be a false prophets I’m worried about my own salvation not Mohammed.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

… I’m worried about my own salvation not Mohammed.

That’s good & wise.

So , I hope , you will stop bashing him from now on , will use the time positively , think more about God , find a way how to worship without committing blasphemy etc.

 

[dolphinlove]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

That’s good & wise.

So , I hope , you will stop bashing him from now on , will use the time positively , think more about God , find a way how to worship without committing blasphemy etc.

MW, to us, ‘bashing’ muhammad as you put it (i think from our point of view its telling the truth about him)… anyway… is not committing blasphemy to us. What is blasphemy to us is calling Jesus a prophet.

So, what you consider blasphemous is not of our opinion, and what we consider blasphemous is not to you.

So, to us, he (muhammad) pretty much undid what Jesus did for us, and for that, we do not hold any respect for him.

So, when we talk about the actions of muhammads life, all we are doing is writing facts, but yet, you call this insulting. Why do you find the facts about muhammad ‘insulting’?

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

What is blasphemy to us is calling Jesus a prophet.

anything Muslims write about Jesus (p) or any Prophet , we do it with love & respect . Our intention is not to degrade them as it’s part of our faith to respect them . Jesus (p) is described as Rabbi , son of man etc in Bible. Do u think it’s blasphemy ?

we do not hold any respect for him.

no problem . I just requested not to use nasty words. Is it very difficult to ask questions without using bad words ?

Why do you find the facts about muhammad ‘insulting’?

because Christians use nasty words while writing about him . Take this example.

Muhammed (p) married his own cousin. If Christians don’t like it , that’s fine with us . But we don’t think u have any right to use dirty words about a legal marriage . If it’s not a legal marraige regarding Bible , it’s lawful regarding Quran .

 

[dolphinlove]

I
anything Muslims write about Jesus (p) or any Prophet , we do it with love & respect . Our intention is not to degrade them as it’s part of our faith to respect them . Jesus (p) is described as Rabbi , son of man etc in Bible. Do u think it’s blasphemy ?
You do it out of love and respect for your religion, however, my religion is not your religion. I do not find the things as described in the bible about Jesus insulting at all, for he really was those thngs to us, as Christians.
The reason why I find it insulting about him being called a prophet, is because by doing that, islam has lied about what and who Jesus really was and is. Jesus was no mere prophet to us, hence this is why i find it insulting.
Basically, how would you feel if i called Al’lah a prophet? not nice is it?

no problem . I just requested not to use nasty words. Is it very difficult to ask questions without using bad words ?

 

[Aydan]

**[bash Mohammed? I’ve never done that. But you see that’s the problem any time someone questions the actions of Mohammed you consider it bashing if you’ve been reading my posts you would’ve noticed that my second language is in fact Turkish and I have never said anything negative about Mohamed around the refugees I’m helping and I never will. What about all of the Turkish Christians that are being martyred and all the Muslims are persecuting Christians for what they believe? What about the fact that they are bashing Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior I suppose in your eyes that’s okay to bash or kill Christians but the minute we question Mohammed we are bashing him. Yeah well what about the Muslims who tortured three Turkish Christians for three hours and then murdered them when they would not convert and change their beliefs? Where is your outcry against that?/B]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

That’s good & wise.

So , I hope , you will stop bashing him from now on , will use the time positively , think more about God , find a way how to worship without committing blasphemy etc.**

 

[Eucharisted]

[7.179] And certainly We have created for hell many of the jinn and the men; they have hearts with which they do not understand, and they have eyes with which they do not see, and they have ears with which they do not hear; they are as cattle, nay, they are in worse errors; these are the heedless ones.

[32.13] And if We had pleased We would certainly have given to every soul its guidance, but the word (which had gone forth) from Me was just: I will certainly fill hell with the jinn and men together.

Why dose Allah create people and jinn for hell? Why dose it please him to create people just so he can send them to hell?

It’d be like if a woman got pregnant - just so she could abort her children. It is monstrious, yet only a shadow compared to what Allah seems pleased to do, and I want to know why Allah dose it.

 

[Verisimilitude]

anything Muslims write about Jesus (p) or any Prophet , we do it with love & respect . Our intention is not to degrade them as it’s part of our faith to respect them .

You do so only to demand the same ‘love & respect’ for Mohammed from non-believers and to give him some legitimacy. Jesus of the Quran is not the Jesus of history, and Mohammed of history is not a prophet of God. When the Quran speaks of equality it is clear it is intended for Moslems only, not any un-believer.

O ye who believe! the law of equality is prescribed to you in cases of murder: the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the woman for the woman. But if any remission is made by the brother of the slain, then grant any reasonable demand, and compensate him with handsome gratitude, this is a concession and a Mercy from your Lord. After this whoever exceeds the limits shall be in grave penalty.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #178)

Why is the unbeliever not addressed?

4:92 AND IT IS not conceivable that a believer should slay another believer, unless it be by mistake. And upon him who has slain a believer by mistake there is the duty of freeing a believing soul from bondage and paying an indemnity to the victim’s relations, unless they forgo it by way of charity. Now if the slain, while himself a believer, belonged to a people who are at war with you, [the penance shall be confined to] the freeing of a believing soul from bondage; whereas, if he belonged to a people to whom you are bound by a covenant, [it shall consist of] an indemnity to be paid to his relations in addition to the freeing of a believing soul from bondage. And he who does not have the wherewithal shall fast [instead] for two consecutive months. (This is) the atonement ordained by God: and God is indeed all-knowing, wise.

What if an un-believer killed a believer by mistake?

O prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed.
( سورة التوبة , At-Taubah, Chapter #9, Verse #73)

Islamic compassion extends only as far as the invitation to convert to Islam.

 

[Aydan]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

That’s good & wise.

So , I hope , you will stop bashing him from now on , will use the time positively , think more about God , find a way how to worship without committing blasphemy etc.

Now Muslim woman you have accused me of bashingyour prophet but look at the way you talk about the Bible and my religion you’re not saying positive things at all are you not bashing Christianity and the Bible here? Look at all the negative things you say about Christianity but then you accuse me of committing blasphemy and bashing your prophet because I question his actions? Isn’t that a double standard? You expect us to be saying positive things about your prophet but yet you say negative and hurtful things about our religion and our Bible. This is the definition of blasphemy in the Catholic Church.

Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is essentially the willful rejection of God’s grace and forgiveness.

A Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture explains, “Unlike other blasphemies or sins which might be partially excused by ignorance, passion or inadvertence, this was[/is] a sin of willful malice and blindness to the light. As long as such a mentality persists, pardon is impossible, not because of any limitation of God, but because those who are guilty of this sin refuse to respond to the promptings of grace” (p.912).

The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) states, “There are no limits to the mercy of God, but anyone who deliberately refuses to accept his mercy by repenting, rejects the forgiveness of his sins and the salvation offered by the Holy Spirit. Such hardness of heart can lead to final impenitence and eternal loss” (CCC 1864).

As you can see I have not committed blasphemy so please do not accuse me of doing so.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

Why dose Allah create people and jinn for hell? .

God created us to worship Him . God gave us free will . If we submitted to Him alone , we will be blessed with heaven . God has forbidden heaven for those who disobeyed Him , who take other deity besides Him . God advised us to be careful about the eternal fire whose fuel will be human , stone . If we want to avoid the fire , we have to worship Him as He ordered. Those who willingly deny oneness of God , must not demand/deserve heaven . So , what’s the problem here ?

 

[planten]

Why dose Allah create people and jinn for hell? Why dose it please him to create people just so he can send them to hell?

It’d be like if a woman got pregnant - just so she could abort her children. It is monstrious, yet only a shadow compared to what Allah seems pleased to do, and I want to know why Allah dose it.

**[7.179] And certainly We have created for hell many of the jinn and the men; they have hearts with which they do not understand, and they have eyes with which they do not see, and they have ears with which they do not hear; they are as cattle, nay, they are in worse errors; these are the heedless ones.

[32.13] And if We had pleased We would certainly have given to every soul its guidance, but the word (which had gone forth) from Me was just: I will certainly fill hell with the jinn and men together**

Eucharisted, the words of Quran are plain and simple. Allah (God) has created everything, good and bad. The verse says that some (or most) of His creation is heading for hell. It is as if they have been created for hell. Allah does not intend to send them to hell. You know it. It is their bad deeds which will send them to hell. So please do not complain about the acts of Allah. Do not try to object to anything that He is doing.
You had misunderstood the plain simple words of the Quran.

 

[planten]

MW, to us, ‘bashing’ muhammad as you put it (i think from our point of view its telling the truth about him)… anyway… is not committing blasphemy to us. What is blasphemy to us is calling Jesus a prophet.

D i L, would you say that Jesus was not a prophet? Forget what more you believe about Jesus. You can hold all your beliefs. I am asking you “Was Jesus not a prophet of God?” Tell in plain words that Jesus was not a prophet of God. Please thank you.

 

[Eucharisted]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

God created us to worship Him . God gave us free will . If we submitted to Him alone , we will be blessed with heaven . God has forbidden heaven for those who disobeyed Him , who take other deity besides Him . God advised us to be careful about the eternal fire whose fuel will be human , stone . If we want to avoid the fire , we have to worship Him as He ordered. Those who willingly deny oneness of God , must not demand/deserve heaven . So , what’s the problem here ?

Hmm…I might not have worded my question correctly. Okay! Let me try again. Here are the surah again:

*[7.179] And certainly We have created for hell many of the jinn and the men; they have hearts with which they do not understand, and they have eyes with which they do not see, and they have ears with which they do not hear; they are as cattle, nay, they are in worse errors; these are the heedless ones.

[32.13] And if We had pleased We would certainly have given to every soul its guidance, but the word (which had gone forth) from Me was just: I will certainly fill hell with the jinn and men together. *

Now, notice Allah dosen’t say “And certainly we have created hell for many of the jinn and the men”. Instead, he says, “And certainly we have created for hell many of the jinn and the men.” Allah is saying he created people for hell: He created them that they might go to hell. This is further seen in the second surah, where Allah is justifying not giving every soul guidance: He is saying he isn’t guiding every soul, only a few souls. And why is this? So his word can come true: He will fill hell with many jinn and many men. It seems Allah delibately creates creatures so they can go to hell, or, in other words, so he can fill hell with creatures.

It would be entirely different, though, if Allah had said “And certainly we have created hell for many of the jinn and the men”, because then Allah would be justifying his Will: Some don’t want Allah so they go to hell. But instead, Allah admits to creating men and jinn so they can go to hell. He admits to not giving everyone guidance: only a few get guidance (I suspect only believers get guidance). Only those who believe in Allah go to paradise, everyone else Allah has created just go to hell, because he created the believers for paradise and unbelievers for hell. That is my understanding of the surah, and if my understanding is correct, than Allah is basically saying, “I am a monster, I create creatures for heaven and I create creatures for hell, and I am pleased to see people and jinn suffer for eternity, because this is my Will.” Is my understanding correct?

Just to clarify: Christianity’s belief of God is entirely different. We believe God created everyone for Heaven, but some people freely reject God, and in their rejection of God they choose to go to Hell instead of Heaven.

 

[Eucharisted]

I’m going to clarify my point a bit further, so you can understand my question better of why dose Allah create people for Hell:

Let’s take the case of a moderate Muslim. He was born Muslim, he lived a good life, he knew the Qu’ran. In brief, he has guidance from Allah. Then, in old age, he begins to be attacked by doubts, and they keep growing and growing inside him, until he can’t take it anymore and rejects his belief in Allah and in Judgment Day. And at that moment, he dies - for comedy effect, let’s say a piano falls on him from out of the sky.

Now, that Muslim has rejeced Allah, he no longer wants Allah. So he goes to hell. You can say, “He freely rejected Allah,” but Allah says in Surah 7.179 that he created for hell jinn and men - or, to use modern English: he created jinn and men for hell. Therefore, according to Allah, and to the Qu’ran, he created the Muslim (I described above) for hell. That is the literal understanding of the surah.

Now, I used the example of a Muslim so you can think about yourself. Allah created you. He has given believers guidance. But you don’t know whether or not he created you for paradise…at least not yet. If, at death, you reject Allah, than that means you were created for hell. If, at death, you embrace Allah, than that means you were created for paradise. Hence, you have a 50/50 chance at being created for hell. You could be created for hell and not even know it. Who’s to say Allah won’t make you have doubts near death? Who’s to say Allah won’t cause you to reject him? If he created you for hell, he’ll make sure you go to hell; but if he created you for heaven, he’ll make sure you go to heaven. Yet, you don’t know. It’s a 50/50 chance. Islam teaches that Muslims who worship other gods don’t leave hell on Judgment Day: how do you know Allah won’t cause you to worship other gods later on in life? If he wills it, you will worship idols, because if he created you for hell, then you’ll go to hell. Think about it: 50/50 chance at salvation or damnation, 50/50 of being created for heaven or for hell.

Why would Allah do this? Why would Allah create people and jinn for hell?

 

[planten]

Hmm…I might not have worded my question correctly. Okay! Let me try again. Here are the surah again:

*[7.179] And certainly We have created for hell many of the jinn and the men; they have hearts with which they do not understand, and they have eyes with which they do not see, and they have ears with which they do not hear; they are as cattle, nay, they are in worse errors; these are the heedless ones.

[32.13] And if We had pleased We would certainly have given to every soul its guidance, but the word (which had gone forth) from Me was just: I will certainly fill hell with the jinn and men together. *

Now, notice Allah dosen’t say “And certainly we have created hell for many of the jinn and the men”. Instead, he says, “And certainly we have created for hell many of the jinn and the men.” Allah is saying he created people for hell: He created them that they might go to hell. This is further seen in the second surah, where Allah is justifying not giving every soul guidance: He is saying he isn’t guiding every soul, only a few souls. And why is this? So his word can come true: He will fill hell with many jinn and many men. It seems Allah delibately creates creatures so they can go to hell, or, in other words, so he can fill hell with creatures.

It would be entirely different, though, if Allah had said “And certainly we have created hell for many of the jinn and the men”, because then Allah would be justifying his Will: Some don’t want Allah so they go to hell. But instead, Allah admits to creating men and jinn so they can go to hell. He admits to not giving everyone guidance: only a few get guidance (I suspect only believers get guidance). Only those who believe in Allah go to paradise, everyone else Allah has created just go to hell, because he created the believers for paradise and unbelievers for hell. That is my understanding of the surah, and if my understanding is correct, than Allah is basically saying, “I am a monster, I create creatures for heaven and I create creatures for hell, and I am pleased to see people and jinn suffer for eternity, because this is my Will.” Is my understanding correct?

Just to clarify: Christianity’s belief of God is entirely different. We believe God created everyone for Heaven, but some people freely reject God, and in their rejection of God they choose to go to Hell instead of Heaven.

**Euchristed, it is the same thing. It is a same type of problem like one of your catholic friends here on the forum said:

“Jesus is God. God is not Jesus.”**

Or I have another one for you:

" God is One in Three and Three in One."

Can you understand or explain that?