Question on Islam -- round 4

[dzheremi]

Jesis had accused the Jews of corrupting their Scripture.

Mathew Chapter 15

1. For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
2. But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
3. And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

Now you are to tell me that Jesus didnt tell the Pharises and Rabis that they have changed the commandment of God because of their tradition.

What the heck are you talking about? Nowhere in that passage does Jesus accuse the Jews of corrupting the scripture. How do you get “you corrupted the scripture” from “And by this you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition” (NASB)? You’re just reading whatever you want into the passage. An honest (non-Islamic) reading could not possibly conclude what you have concluded, because it’s simply not there. It’s not written there, nor even implied. Look at what comes immediately before it as part of the very same exchange:

1(A)Then some Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus (B)from Jerusalem and said,
2"Why do Your disciples break the tradition of the elders? For they (C)do not wash their hands when they eat bread."

3And He answered and said to them, "Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?

They ask Jesus about a particular point of Jewish custom and Jesus replies that the commandments of God are what matters most, not custom. He reiterates this in verse 11, when He tells them: “It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man.”

Again, do you see anything about scripture in any of these passages? No. No part of any of these exchanges has to do with scripture or the corruption thereof. Think about it: If Jesus had thought that the Jewish scripture had become corrupted, why would He not just come out and say so? In the next verse (12; not quoted above), Jesus is told how offensive His views are, and yet He keeps on, telling them that “Every plant which My heavenly Father did not plant shall be uprooted.” Furthermore, if Jesus had thought that the Jewish scriptures had been corrupted, why would He have quoted them, and why would He have emphasized His Jewish heritage (Revelation 22:16)?

Oh wait, I’m sure im misinterpreting this again, right? That will be your answer, as your answer for anything else us Muslims interpret.

As it should be, since you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.

I will show you how Jesus Plagiarized David, and where Quran gives perfect citation of Jesus.

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth Mather 5:5

Here is what it says in the Psalms.

But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace. Psalms 37:11

Did Jesus give any type of reference to David or the Psalms when he plagiarized this to be of his own.

Yet the Quran states.

‘And verily We have written in the Psalms, after the Reminder: My righteous slaves will inherit the earth’ (Al-Qur’an 21: 105).

Is there a point to this? The Bible does not use “righteous slave” in this verse in English, nor in parallel texts (all of which I’ve seen use “humble” or “meek”).

Ishmael was the firstborn and heir to Abraham. But because of the instigating of Sarah, Hagar was sent to the wilderness of Paran. This in some form proves that becaue he was the original heir of Abraham, he should also have been a Prophet. I’m sure you will still deny it though.

I do not understand the logic behind this at all. Is it the Islamic view that prophethood is genetically inherited? The part of your post I’ve bolded implies as much. If so, what then are we supposed to make of Muhammad, son of nobody?

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Jesis had accused the Jews of corrupting their Scripture.

Mathew Chapter 15…

As Margarete Thatcher once said: no, no, no. Do not begin quoting a book which you just stated the Christians and Jews corrupted. You confirm what I argued before, which is that Islamic apologetics is full of double standards and circular logic. The Bible is only “corrupted” when it contradicts what the Koran and Mohammad says. But suddenly if it can be of use, you cite it to prove your point, never seemingly realizing how inconsistent that is.

You know this, of course, hence your sarcastic reply:

Now you are to tell me that Jesus didnt tell the Pharises and Rabis that they have changed the commandment of God because of their tradition. Oh wait, I’m sure im misinterpreting this again, right? That will be your answer, as your answer for anything else us Muslims interpret.

Yes you are misinterpreting it, because Christ is quoting Isaiah, who quoted the corruption of the Jewish leadership. Nowhere did Isaiah or Christ ever say the scripture itself had been tarnished. This argument only comes along when Mohammad and his Muslim followers had to cover for the inconsistency between Islamic revelation and Judeo-Christian scripture.

Again, Christ’s apostles never argued that the Jews corrupted scripture - they used that scripture to confirm what they believed. You have, to much credit on your part, presented some response to this argumentation by discussing a possible citation within the Koran:

Yet the Quran states.

‘And verily We have written in the Psalms, after the Reminder: My righteous slaves will inherit the earth’ (Al-Qur’an 21: 105)

Here it gives perfect reference to the verse of the Psalms 37:29
The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.

Here is your direct citation.

That’s hardly a direct citation, it’s merely a vague reference to it. It’s basically saying, “Hey remember that part in the Psalms where someone says something about inheriting the earth?” The “righteous slaves” do not necessarily denote “the meek” - even the word Muslim can mean a “righteous slave” to God. This is hardly a comparison to Hebrews 8 which quotes an entire passage from Jeremiah, or many parts of Matthew’s gospel which quotes entire passages from previous scripture. These passages, furthermore, were not made in a passing “oh yeah remember that verse?” moment, but, as I said before, part of a larger theological argument to show the validity of the person’s post. If this is the only one you can present, it still does not say much for the Koran and its relationship to previous revelations.

Furthermore, other translations - such as Pickthal and Shakir - do not put “Psalms,” but rather “the Book” or “the Scripture.” I would be interested in the original Arabic word used in the passage and what it means, let alone if it actually is a referral to the Psalms.

Ishmael was the firstborn and heir to Abraham. But because of the instigating of Sarah, Hagar was sent to the wilderness of Paran. This in some form proves that becaue he was the original heir of Abraham, he should also have been a Prophet. I’m sure you will still deny it though.

Ishmael was the firstborn to Abraham through a slave girl by human action (the plans of Sarah). Isaac was the blessing of God upon Abraham, and was part of a divine plan. As for me denying it, yes I will, because even the scripture denies it.

But God said, "No, but Sarah your wife will bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. “As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him, and will make him fruitful and will multiply him exceedingly He shall become the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you at this season next year.” [Genesis 17:19-21; emphasis mine]

God showed mercy on Ishmael in the same manner he showed mercy to Cain - but that does not denote prophethood. Ishmael was never part of the covenant with God. Furthermore, God is referred to throughout the Bible as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - nowhere is Ishmael included in that list of names. That is, until suddenly a religion that starts among a people descended from Ishmael is created.

On another note, I request that you go back and read my post which you have replied to and answer the other parables and questions i have placed before you. Why ignore them and choose simple what your heart desires.

It was not what my “heart desires,” but rather I got to the point of the entire debate: the inherent flaws in the Islamic argumentation. If a man argues that the earth is flat, should I answer his “parables and questions” regarding topics that stem from that belief? The easiest way to resolve a series of misunderstandings is to attack the ignorance which stems from those misunderstandings - in such a way, you strike at the heart of the beast.

 

[Christos]

I have just found SOLID proof that you are one of the most ingorrant person that i have ever met. Wait, not dont tell me that your not solid…and that your liquid

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

I have just found SOLID proof that you are one of the most ingorrant person that i have ever met. Wait, not dont tell me that your not solid…and that your liquid

I thank you for the ad hominem - the clearest sign of no argumentation left.

 

[seraphime2008]

The Bible had transformed these great Prophets into Adulterous people, who commit incest or witness their own children commit incest, yet it prescribes no punishment towards these people(GENESIS 19:33-35, GENESIS 35:22, GENESIS 38:15-I8). What is the moral of these stories? What will, you or your childres (if you have any at the moment) gain if you teach them this story. Islam does not make any differences amongts the Prophets (La nufariku bayna ahadim minhum, We make no distinction between any of them,)
R u saying that since Lot is one nephew of Abraham, then he deserved to be called Prophet?..LOL. If u read carefully the OT, then u must find that Moses later on had revealed law from God to avoid incest. And btw theBible only tells us here how nations came from and u’re angry they’re not punished? U have to be angry with God too since He didn’t punish Abraham marrying Sarah, her half sister.Then u must be angry with God for letting that happened? What do you think happened during the time of Adam and Eve, don’t u think that their chilren also perfomed incest?
You forget that allah has made Muhammad as the most given “prophet” on earth to deserve and allowed everything he wanted. What moral story of the Koran when allah has permitted Muhammad to kill the unbeliever, to have more than nine wives? To get the wife of his stepson? To marry a very young girl? prescribe divorcing thus legalizing the marriage of girls haven’t reach menstruation? He indeed was “distinctive” in his own way…

Allah did not send Jesus to start a false religion. Allah sent Jesus for the Jews and for those who would beleive in him. The majority of the Jews did not believe in him, just like they did not believe in the Prophets before him. Jesus says himself, he is following the religion of his forfathers, of Abaraham, and Moses. So therfore how is this a NEW religion, and how is it a false religion. The religion of his forfathers, did not include the trinity, you can ask any Jew about that, and neither did the religion after him, Islam, include the trinity.

So what? If u don’t have a full knowledge of the concept of God, why blame the one who didn’t have that understanding as the one who is right just because they were the one who get the first yet not yet completed understanding ? Jesus in fact said: " I am the Ressurection and the life. He who believes in me will live, eventhough he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die". So do you think that Jesus was referring himself of a person need a religion of Judaism here?

The core beliefs of Christianity, closely resemble those of Islam. Islam is not a different message from Christianity, but it goes into more detail. We can ask the same question about Christianity. Why does Allah send Jesus to preach a different message than from Judiasm, and get people to believe in a lie. It’s because it is not a different message, it is the same message in nature, its just the minute details that differ. Lets say for example divorce. In the Torah, divorce was allowed. Before, what used to occur was a man would divorce his wife, and then recant his proclamation of divorce saying it never occured. Thus Moses said a man mustgive his wife a written notification that he has divorced her. The Jews, began to take advantage of this also, and therfore when Jesus came he said that divorce was prohibited unless it involved adultery. Islam, tells us that Allah looks down upon as a really horrible act, but sometimes necessarry. Yet, he says when you want to divorce it should be a last option and when you ask for a divorce he prescribes measures one should take to still part respectfully and give a possible chance of reconcilliation. (Read Surah At-Talaq[The Divorce])

Ha…ha…ha…and who will be the judge that it’s sometimes necessary? The man and woman themselves of trying to keep their ego and running away from the problems. And i found ur Koran said that when a woman having been divorced from her husband should marry another guy first, on what base? Is it not enough that she wants to reconcile but Allah prescribe her to become involved with sex with another man?

Allah decieved the people because Jesus asked for God not to let him die there at that time. Therfore God, accepted his prayer and placed someone else in Jesus’ place to be crucified. His deciples had fled, remember, so they were not there at the time of the crucifixtion. Then when Jesus came to them, he told them that he was not crucified and was saved by the Almight-God, and he will now be raised to heaved. He will come back sometime in the future to the world. (Muslim Opinion). Tell me this, the recount in each of the four Gospels was different. You may argue that just oral tradition reaching that person may have been different than to the other. Then, if these Gospels were truly Inspired by God, then it would not matter about the oral tradition reaching these individuals because God would still inspire them to write as it had happened, and not differently. However, if the Bible had been changed, or had interpolations, and had these many changes done towards it, then it is understandable that yes, these Gospels were inspired by God, but other people had changed it.

You make Allah as :

1. deceiver for the purpose of anything that He will
2. Not really a good deceiver because he can if he wanted to without making him into more troubles of lying, to make Jesus still carry the crucifixion but at the same time able to endure or not having pain in doing so… I really can’t help myself laughing at this…
3. Again not a really good deceiver because if that person was someone else, how come that none of the gospel said that this man ever sreamed and rebelled to say that indeed he was not Jesus

 

[Christos]

Is there a point to this? The Bible does not use “righteous slave” in this verse in English, nor in parallel texts (all of which I’ve seen use “humble” or “meek”).

Please i would like you to open the bible (i own the KJV dated, 1897, but im sure it should still be the same) and go to Psalms 37:29 and read it for your selves.

“The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell theirin for ever.”

Psalms tells us of three kinds of people who will inherit the land: those that wait upon the Lord, the meek, and the righteous. (verses 9, 11, 12)

Please atleast verify the reference i have given before you accuse. Lest, people not believe anything else you might say. Yet, this may have been a simple mistake. May God Forgive You and the rest of us.

 

[dzheremi]

Please i would like you to open the bible (i own the KJV dated, 1897, but im sure it should still be the same) and go to Psalms 37:29 and read it for your selves.

“The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell theirin for ever.”

Please pay more attention to the responses you quote. I wrote that the phrase “righteous slave” does not appear in the Bible, so calling this a quotation with citation is a big stretch on your part.

Psalms tells us of three kinds of people who will inherit the land: those that wait upon the Lord, the meek, and the righteous. (verses 9, 11, 12)

Doesn’t conflict with or address anything I wrote. We’re not disagreeing on what the Bible says, we’re disagreeing with your interpretation of it.

Please atleast verify the reference i have given before you accuse. Lest, people not believe anything else you might say. Yet, this may have been a simple mistake. May God Forgive You and the rest of us.

Uh, alright. Thanks. Allah yerhamlek aiydan.

 

[Christos]

R u saying that since Lot is one nephew of Abraham, then he deserved to be called Prophet?..LOL. If u read carefully the OT, then u must find that Moses later on had revealed law from God to avoid incest. And btw theBible only tells us here how nations came from and u’re angry they’re not punished? U have to be angry with God too since He didn’t punish Abraham marrying Sarah, her half sister.Then u must be angry with God for letting that happened? What do you think happened during the time of Adam and Eve, don’t u think that their chilren also perfomed incest?

At the time of Adam and Eve, this was still the beggining of the world and mankind. Every six months Eve gave birth to twins, a boy and a girl. And to these children they were told they were not allowed to marry the immediate sibling they were born with. Any other was permissible. I conceur that Christians do not consider Lot a prophet. However, it still does not cover how Jacob heard Reuben having intercourse with Bilha, and not doing anything. How Judas was fooled by his daughter-in-law into intercourse. Lot, having intercourse with his daughters. How the Prophet Davids son, raped his sister, and another had intercourse with the concubines of David. God never punished any of these people in any sort. However, that same God tells a man to cut his wifes hands off when she saves him from another man. What kinda God is this. Please explain.
(Reference:Genesis 35:22, Genesis 38:15, Genesis 19:33, IISamuel 13:11, II Samuel 16:22)

You forget that allah has made Muhammad as the most given “prophet” on earth to deserve and allowed everything he wanted. What moral story of the Koran when allah has permitted Muhammad to kill the unbeliever, to have more than nine wives? To get the wife of his stepson? To marry a very young girl? prescribe divorcing thus legalizing the marriage of girls haven’t reach menstruation? He indeed was “distinctive” in his own way…

Even though God may have ordained Muhammad to most given Prophet (please give me citation) did he follow upon those. Muhammad did have many wives, but they were not all at the same time. Islam still ordains to a MAXIMUM of 4 wives at a time. Marrying young girls was the norm in that time. Read of the Byzantian Emperors who married young girls. Also, why wasnt this accusation brought about when Muhammad married her. The Arabs at that time, who still disbelieved tried every way they could to slander him. Why then did they not bring this up. Marriage of girls who haven’t reached menstruation is only permissible in the sense of an arrange marraige. When she becomes of age, then is it open to consummate the marraige.

So what? If u don’t have a full knowledge of the concept of God, why blame the one who didn’t have that understanding as the one who is right just because they were the one who get the first yet not yet completed understanding ? Jesus in fact said: " I am the Ressurection and the life. He who believes in me will live, eventhough he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die". So do you think that Jesus was referring himself of a person need a religion of Judaism here?

All the Prophets in their time was the ressurection and the life. Because only if you followed them would you be ressurected as a living soul (not damned to hell). So yes, during Jesus’ time he was the Ressurection and the life, and in other places he says hes the way.

Ha…ha…ha…and who will be the judge that it’s sometimes necessary? The man and woman themselves of trying to keep their ego and running away from the problems. And i found ur Koran said that when a woman having been divorced from her husband should marry another guy first, on what base? Is it not enough that she wants to reconcile but Allah prescribe her to become involved with sex with another man?

There are three steps in Divorce. If the man divorces the woman once, or twice, they still have a chance of concilliation, but if he divorces her the third time then she is not allowed for him. Furthermore, if she remarries, and is happy then so be it. But if she remarries and that marries breaks, either because of death, or because it diddnt work out, only then may she come back to her husband. Since divorce is looked down upon greatly by God, and because the man had declared divorce three times, not just once, God wants to give the woman the opportunity to find another man who she may live happily with, for it is obvious by the divorce that the couple were unhappy.

You make Allah as :

1. deceiver for the purpose of anything that He will
2. Not really a good deceiver because he can if he wanted to without making him into more troubles of lying, to make Jesus still carry the crucifixion but at the same time able to endure or not having pain in doing so… I really can’t help myself laughing at this…
3. Again not a really good deceiver because if that person was someone else, how come that none of the gospel said that this man ever sreamed and rebelled to say that indeed he was not Jesus

Allah it wasn’t simply to decieve the people, it was to punish the one who betrayed Jesus also. Not for just anything He wills. Jesus prayed to God, to be saved from the Jews, so why then would God still alow him to fall into their hands for any reason. Once again, If you read about what i wrote before about how the Gospels differ on the actual crucifixtion and ressurection you will see that even if the writers had different oral traditions of what happened, because they were being inspired by God to write God words, the story still should have been the same.

 

[Christos]

Please pay more attention to the responses you quote. I wrote that the phrase “righteous slave” does not appear in the Bible, so calling this a quotation with citation is a big stretch on your part.

Please go look at the quotation not just what im writing. Actually OPEN the bible and LOOK. May Allah take you and out of this ignorrant state of yours, and may Allah also take the world out of its ignorrance. Ameen, Insha Allah.

 

[Christos]

new question for our Muslim members
what evidence convinces you that the Koran is actually the Word of God?

There is many evidence that Proves that the Quran is the Word of God, there are the Historic facts contained in the Quran, the Scienctific, and many more. I will Briefly narrate one of them. (This is my post from the Islam’s Plagiarized Christian Origins thread. Post #141.)

See first we have to assertain that the Quran is the word of God. We have to put the Quran to many tests. For a second ignore all other scriptures as hard as it may be and test the Quran alone without prejudice which i know for many christians its extremely hard, but only when that is done you will see the truth. The Quran has placed many challeges towards people and yet till today no one has been able to prove the quran wrong. Also, the Muslim Scholars were always asked as to what was Iram, the City that the Quran mentions. A Christian Convert, Gary Miller, in his short essay tells us here

The City of Iram

The Qur’an mentions a city by the name of Iram (89:7). The city of
Iram has been unknown to History, so unknown that even Muslim
commentators, out of embarrassment or feeling apologetic for their
religion, have commented on this mention of the city in the Qur’an as
being perhaps figurative, that Iram was possibly a man and not a
city.

In 1973, the excavation in Syria at the site of the ancient city of
Eblus uncovered the largest collection of cuneiform writings on clay
tablets ever assembled. In fact, the library discovered in Eblus
contains more clay tablets that are more than four thousand years old
than all the other tablets combined from all other sites.

Interestingly enough, you will find the details in the National
Geographic of 1978 which confirms that in those tablets the city of
Iram is mentioned. The people of Eblus used to do business with the
people of Iram. So here in 1973, comes confirmation of the fact that,
after all, there really was an ancient city by that name, wherever it
was. How did it find its way into the Qur’an, we might ask? "
So how did this City find it’s way into the Qur’an. Obviously, many people with can come up with many theories, but just as you Christians follow many things based on faith alone, we do not. The actual discovery of these Tablets is just one example that tell us this Book is no ordinary book, but the Word of God.

I can give more examples if you like. This was just one that immediately popped to my mind.

 

[dzheremi]

Please go look at the quotation not just what im writing. Actually OPEN the bible and LOOK. May Allah take you and out of this ignorrant state of yours, and may Allah also take the world out of its ignorrance. Ameen, Insha Allah.

You know, I’m starting to not appreciate your tone, Christos. How many times do I have to look in the Bible before you understand that I disagree with you no matter what “proof” you think you’ve discovered? I’ve stated it twice already, but I guess I’ll do it one more time: The Bible does not use this phrase “righteous slave” that is apparently in what you claim is the Qur’anic citation of the Bible. Furthermore, your attempt at exegesis outside of the literal verse-mining is extremely poor.

Were we talking about the Qur’an (as this thread is meant to do…), and not the Bible, I might expect to be similarly corrected by you or another Muslim regarding spurious interpretations of its text borne of my unavoidably Christian-centered outlook. However, that is not what is going on in this thread, so I’ll thank you not to call me ignorant for defending the integrity of my faith and the Holy Bible from you and your errors when it is clear that you are only here to distort and slander our scripture in order to proselytize us in direct contravention of forum rules.

 

[Christos]

Here is another

Professor Morris Bokay mentioned the following:

The Holy Quran is mentioning a person called Haman who is one of pharaoh’s attendants , and that last one demanded from him to build a high tower or a lofty palace allowing pharaoh as he said sarcastically from Moses to mount it and reach the God of his belief .

And I wanted to know if that name isn’t connected to a hieroglyphic name, It could be saved as a document of the documents of that age, so then “Nakhara” would be occurred which means

“writing the letters of a language in the letters of another language” from a language to another , and I won’t satisfied with an answer except if it is coming from an expert in the hieroglyphic language and also knows the Arabic language in a good way , so I asked a French egyptologue scientist the two previous mentioned conditions were perfectly available in him , I wrote in front of him the Arabic name of the eminent man “Haman” but I didn’t mention to him anything about the reality of the concerned text and just told him that this text is related to the seventh century a.c in a doubtless way, his first answer was that origin is impossible because it is not possible to find a text including a name of an eminent man in the hieroglyphic language and also having a hieroglyphic rhyme related to the seventh century a.c and it won’t be well known till now ,that is because the hieroglyphic language had forgotten a long time before, on the other hand he advised me to check the dictionary of personal names of the new empire and to search for this name which symbolizes to me the hieroglyphic language if it is really found , he was just assuming this, and while searching I found it written in this dictionary exactly as I expected and Oh…What a surprise!! not only I found his name but also I found his job as it was written in German language “the chief of quarrying workers” but without any sign to the date of the text except that it is related to the empire which Moses’ age was during it , and the job which was written points out that the mentioned parson was interested in the construction field, what makes us think of the comparison we can make between the order that pharaoh ordered in the Holy Quran and between what was specified in what was written.

God says: ( Pharaoh said: O Chiefs! No god do I know for you but myself: therefore, o Haman! Light me a (kiln to bake bricks) out of clay, and build me a lofty palace, that I may mount up to the god of Moses: but as far as I am concerned, I think (Moses) is a liar! )

 

[Christos]

You know, I’m starting to not appreciate your tone, Christos. How many times do I have to look in the Bible before you understand that I disagree with you no matter what “proof” you think you’ve discovered? I’ve stated it twice already, but I guess I’ll do it one more time: The Bible does not use this phrase “righteous slave” that is apparently in what you claim is the Qur’anic citation of the Bible. Furthermore, your attempt at exegesis outside of the literal verse-mining is extremely poor.

Were we talking about the Qur’an (as this thread is meant to do…), and not the Bible, I might expect to be similarly corrected by you or another Muslim regarding spurious interpretations of its text borne of my unavoidably Christian-centered outlook. However, that is not what is going on in this thread, so I’ll thank you not to call me ignorant for defending the integrity of my faith and the Holy Bible from you and your errors when it is clear that you are only here to distort and slander our scripture in order to proselytize us in direct contravention of forum rules.

Well my brother, I am not here to slander the Bible. I am here telling you My Belief on the Bible. Islam’s Belief on the Bible. Furthermore, I will let you deny the proof i have given, but I am certain that other brothers will accept what i am telling them. You are telling me something, but have no explanation about it.

The Bible does not use this phrase “righteous slave” that is apparently in what you claim is the Qur’anic citation of the Bible.

Please do explain how you came to this conclusion. For what I am waiting for is not just your opinion but your proof. The Quran says “…Produce your proof if you are truthful.” 2:111

So please, show me.

 

[Christos]

My post in the thread Islam’s Plagiarized Christian Origins post #135

[23:13] Verily, We created man from an extract of clay;​

[23:14] Then We placed him as a drop of sperm in a safe depository;​

[23:15] Then We fashioned the sperm into a clot; then We fashioned the clot into a shapeless lump; then We fashioned bones out of this shapeless lump; then We clothed the bones with flesh; then We developed it into another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators.

This beautiful verse telling us of embryology which could only be discovered within the past maybe 100 years was told in great ACCURATE detail in the quran. This could never be known by any man but still it was written in the Glorious Quran. Is this too from the Christian Bible? No it is not. This is the word of God, and even though the Bible was the word of God, however corrupt it eventually became, it did not have this.

P.S. For further inquiries please read further in that forum, for i have added more to it, after being questioned.

 

[dzheremi]

Well my brother, I am not here to slander the Bible. I am here telling you My Belief on the Bible. Islam’s Belief on the Bible. Furthermore, I will let you deny the proof i have given, but I am certain that other brothers will accept what i am telling them. You are telling me something, but have no explanation about it.

I am having trouble understanding what you mean, Christos. All of my posts that you have replied to have been by way of explanation to you: How and why you are wrong in your interpretation of the Bible passages you are quoting, what the viewpoint of a Christian is in reply to your assertions, etc. I can’t control what other people choose to believe, but I do feel it is the duty of every serious Christian to defend the faith against those who seek to pervert and destroy it. You, like the vast majority of Muslim posters here, have no idea what you’re talking about when it comes to Christianity. We cannot stand by and watch you eviscerate the Bible in an attempt to insert Muhammad and Islam into it. This is not right.

Please do explain how you came to this conclusion. For what I am waiting for is not just your opinion but your proof. The Quran says “…Produce your proof if you are truthful.” 2:111

So please, show me.

I am not sure how I am supposed to explain that the Bible does not contain a certain phrase in it. You claim to own a copy of the KJV (I do not, but it is available online, so I have looked at it). You know that it is not there. You can see it with your own eyes.

 

[Christos]

These are the scans i have just taken

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[Christos]

Forgive me for the extra large size of the pictures, that is how they came out when scanned. But read on the upper left side, verse 29.

 

[Christos]

Just a thought, “The meek shall inherit the earth”.
Define meek: adj. meek·er, meek·est

Showing patience and humility; gentle.
Easily imposed on; submissive.

Define Muslim: one who submits, submissive.

Just saying.

 

[seraphime2008]

At the time of Adam and Eve, this was still the beggining of the world and mankind. Every six months Eve gave birth to twins, a boy and a girl. And to these children they were told they were not allowed to marry the immediate sibling they were born with. Any other was permissible. I conceur that Christians do not consider Lot a prophet. However, it still does not cover how Jacob heard Reuben having intercourse with Bilha, and not doing anything. How Judas was fooled by his daughter-in-law into intercourse. Lot, having intercourse with his daughters. How the Prophet Davids son, raped his sister, and another had intercourse with the concubines of David. God never punished any of these people in any sort. However, that same God tells a man to cut his wifes hands off when she saves him from another man. What kinda God is this. Please explain.
(Reference:Genesis 35:22, Genesis 38:15, Genesis 19:33, IISamuel 13:11, II Samuel 16:22)
I still can’t help my self laughing… What on earth r u talking bout Eve gave birth to twins every six moths? I thought babies need at least 9 months and 2 weeks to be delivered, so at that time different? Gosh…and u make a distinctition between siblings and twins, so inter marriage siblings is not doomed but bet intermarriage twins is…my God, I can’t even think if this is sensible. U’re a laughing stock! I said to u that indeed the OT recorded that story as a narration of what and who formed the nations. Read ur self that incest and rape is unacceptable by the Torah, u keep repeating it was not punished. Then indeed u don’t know how to understand and make conclusion from a complete story and can’t make a good message from it. U’re the one who needs to go studying! Report ur story to Allah and go make a court judging them 'cos u’re not satisfied!!!
Even though God may have ordained Muhammad to most given Prophet (please give me citation) did he follow upon those. Muhammad did have many wives, but they were not all at the same time. Islam still ordains to a MAXIMUM of 4 wives at a time. Marrying young girls was the norm in that time. Read of the Byzantian Emperors who married young girls. Also, why wasnt this accusation brought about when Muhammad married her. The Arabs at that time, who still disbelieved tried every way they could to slander him. Why then did they not bring this up. Marriage of girls who haven’t reached menstruation is only permissible in the sense of an arrange marraige. When she becomes of age, then is it open to consummate the marraige.

Ah…this has been discussed toooooooo many times here. I will never be convinced with ur reasoning. Read other thread on this topic. Anyway, ur so Koran can’t be applied to all time and all place as it claims. It only tells that ur religion is a religion made by human ,influenced so much with his own culture. No more than that! And btw did the Koran said that it supposed to be arranged marriage? And it doens’t say anything about the age of the couple, so an old man can marry young girl? Allah has permitted that forever to the world? Don’t bring the card that other did that too, we’re speaking about a prophet that supposed to be emulated. Those other figures u mentioned didn’t have permission given by God, they did it because they were products of their time and culture. Different case with ur so called prophet! If the same treatment applied to him, then your Allah was indeed a product of time and culture

All the Prophets in their time was the ressurection and the life. Because only if you followed them would you be ressurected as a living soul (not damned to hell). So yes, during Jesus’ time he was the Ressurection and the life, and in other places he says hes the way.

Ah really…did any other prophets ever declaring that? Show me some proof by verses.

There are three steps in Divorce. If the man divorces the woman once, or twice, they still have a chance of concilliation, but if he divorces her the third time then she is not allowed for him. Furthermore, if she remarries, and is happy then so be it. But if she remarries and that marries breaks, either because of death, or because it diddnt work out, only then may she come back to her husband. Since divorce is looked down upon greatly by God, and because the man had declared divorce three times, not just once, God wants to give the woman the opportunity to find another man who she may live happily with, for it is obvious by the divorce that the couple were unhappy.

Ur Koran indeed was thinking that problems in marriage only about sex. ANd why that only the husband be given the “right” to divorce? Isn’t that unjust? And why assuming that a woman must find another man to marry and have sex with him if the marriage problem was the previous husband, say he was not having enough income but then later on he could bring more? There’s always possibility that the woman doens’t need another man to solve her marriage problems…and this mandate given by God had put women inferior because it seems that the marriage problems must have arise from the women.
Anyway…all of this doens’t make sense to me.

Allah it wasn’t simply to decieve the people, it was to punish the one who betrayed Jesus also. Not for just anything He wills. Jesus prayed to God, to be saved from the Jews, so why then would God still alow him to fall into their hands for any reason. Once again, If you read about what i wrote before about how the Gospels differ on the actual crucifixtion and ressurection you will see that even if the writers had different oral traditions of what happened, because they were being inspired by God to write God words, the story still should have been the same.

C’mon…explain to me why in those 4 accounts of the gospel, none ever reported that the one brought to cross ever screamed, yelled and rebelled saying he was not Jesus? Why…why u complain about the difference in details but not able to back up your claim explaining my very-very basic question? Why, why in the gospel, the one u accused as someone else replacing Jesus’ place contradictory to ur claim, confirmed that indeed He was Jesus? Was he a robot? U’re unbelievable!

 

[Christos]

C’mon…explain to me why in those 4 accounts of the gospel, none ever reported that the one brought to cross ever screamed, yelled and rebelled saying he was not Jesus? Why…why u complain about the difference in details but not able to back up your claim explaining my very-very basic question? Why, why in the gospel, the one u accused as someone else replacing Jesus’ place contradictory to ur claim, confirmed that indeed He was Jesus? Was he a robot? U’re unbelievable!

Explain this to me, the recount in each of the four Gospels was different. You may argue that just oral tradition reaching that person may have been different than to the other. Then, if these Gospels were truly Inspired by God, then it would not matter about the oral tradition reaching these individuals because God would still inspire them to write as it had happened, and not differently. However, if the Bible had been changed, or had interpolations, and had these many changes done towards it, then it is understandable that yes, these Gospels were inspired by God, but other people had changed it.

This is both my answer and something for you to ponder over.