Questions about Homosexual Conversion/ReversalTherapy etc

[setter]

Setter, I know that we have spoken in the past…can I ask you? Have you been through this? Have you or are you afflicted with “SSA” and if so can you testify to the steps you took to try and overcome it? Please don’t take offence if I have pegged you the wrong way.I have seen you speak so fervently on the subject that it is leading me to believe that you know more intimately about it than most. Just curious.

My passion arises from too many ill- or good-intentioned (though terribly mislead) individuals offer dead end advice and proposed “solutions” to a terrible affliction against the design of the human person intended by the Creator (yes, I believe in God the Creator of all that is, visible and invisible).

I am also disturbed by agenda driven homosexual apologists who militantly attempt to limit the medical options available to those individuals afflicted and struggling with SSA, in the service of further promoting their gay agenda.

 

[dapper]

My passion arises from too many ill- or good-intentioned (though terribly mislead) individuals offer dead end advice and proposed “solutions” to a terrible affliction against the design of the human person intended by the Creator (yes, I believe in God the Creator of all that is, visible and invisible).

I am also disturbed by agenda driven homosexual apologists who militantly attempt to limit the medical options available to those individuals afflicted and struggling with SSA, in the service of further promoting their gay agenda.

That’s very noble of you. But as I stated in the begining of this thread - I am not here to debate anyone on the decisions they made. I am not going to argue with anyone as to why they chose to treat what they consider a problem (ie SSA). I know that there may be some on here that would. I am merely looking to hear testimony…that’s it! I admire you for watch-dogging the posts but again, I only want to hear the testimony.

We’re not *all *militant homosexuals here.

 

[setter]

Setter, you are the Dennis Miller of this forum. No need to “try one more time.” Please, allow yourself to simply understand what I am asking. I am asking for testimony of folks who have gone through “treatments for SSA.” Though tempting, I am not interested in having a conversation about absolute truth.

If you cannot answer my question because you have not gone through these programs or know someone who has in that you could speak for them, I am not open to debate this off topic subject with you. No offense but please, start a new thread. I do not know how simple I can make this for you. All I want to know is if there is anyone out there on this forum that has gone through the sort of therapy and to please explain their journey.

You nibbled then spit out the enticing morsel of the parallel (and more foundational topic at hand) discussion as to why one would pursue and respond positively to reparative therapy – a much more challenging and dangerous path to travel, because one risks losing their preconceived and fast held notions, and for many folks this is a frightful proposition.

 

[dapper]

dapper;1681641:

You nibbled then spit out the enticing morsel of the parallel (and more foundational topic at hand) discussion as to why one would pursue and respond positively to reparative therapy – a much more challenging and dangerous path to travel, because one risks losing their preconceived and fast held notions, and for many folks this is a frightful proposition.

Sweetie, I am not nibbling or spitting anything. So, again, if you can testify to the process, please do. Otherwise, go nibble and spit on another post. :banghead:

 

[setter]

We’re not *all *militant homosexuals here.

I would never presume this to be the case …but the drum beat and effect is the same.

 

[setter]

Sweetie, I am not nibbling or spitting anything. So, again, if you can testify to the process, please do. Otherwise, go nibble and spit on another post. :banghead:

Again, data and knowledge simply for the sake of data and knowledge …I guess that great things have come about with a lesser purpose on a conscious level of simply gathering data for comparison sake.

 

[dapper]

Again, data and knowledge simply for the sake of data and knowledge …I guess that great things have come about with a lesser purpose on a conscious level of simply gathering data for comparison sake.

You’re right. Because you know deep down inside I really “hate my sin” and in reality my goal here was to disguise my real intentions with a “lesser purpose.” I am really wanting so desperatley to come to grips with my “SSA” disease and repent…NOT.

Setter, I applaude your efforts. I really do. I just got an email from someone who is willing to share their experience with me. This should prove interesting.

 

[setter]

You’re right. Because you know deep down inside I really “hate my sin” and in reality my goal here was to disguise my real intentions with a “lesser purpose.” I am really wanting so desperatley to come to grips with my “SSA” disease and repent…NOT.

At least you got the jargon down …

Setter, I applaude your efforts. I really do. I just got an email from someone who is willing to share their experience with me. This should prove interesting.

I hope that your search for knowledge leads to a search for the truth; otherwise knowledge without truth is folly, whereas knowledge with truth is wisdom.

 

[Courage_Married]

I don’t know if I am what you are looking for or not. I have never been to reparitive therapy but I am a member of Courage and I have been a member for a number of years.

Before joining Courage I labeled myself as bi, but through Courage I was able to see that it was just a same-sex attraction and that level of attraction eventually dimished enough that I could find a girlfriend and eventually marry her.

Courage does not promote reparitive therapy but if a person in Courage wants to go through that they will point them to Narth or a counselor that may specialize in that. Courage promotes living a chaste life according to the teachings of the Catholic church. Courage does recognize that over time people’s degree of same-sex attraction MAY diminish. In some people it does, in others it doesn’t.

 

[HoppityRedux]

Why is that do you think?

Here is a clinical compilation of personal testimony of patients who has successfully engaged in reparative therapy with an astute PhD psychologist who specializing in reparative therapy and who respects and honors client self-determination in the therapeutic change process.

I said there is little testimony outside of NARTH because of the absence of such testimony. You respond by giving us a reference to a book by the president of NARTH. Joseph Nicolosi is president of NARTH.

Here’s a picture of Nicolosi from the NARTH home page.
narth.com/docs/koocher.html

 

[setter]

I said there is little testimony outside of NARTH because of the absence of such testimony. You respond by giving us a reference to a book by the president of NARTH. Joseph Nicolosi is president of NARTH.

Here’s a picture of Nicolosi from the NARTH home page.
narth.com/docs/koocher.html

I see that you ignored this portion of my post:

Originally Posted by **setter **
Why is that do you think?

I found the two pictures below the picture of Dr. Nicolosi exactly telling about the tragedy and truth of the gay agenda purposely marginalizing and refusing to offer validation to those seeking to re-orient/repair their disordered SSA.

 

[HoppityRedux]

I see that you ignored this portion of my post:

I found the two pictures below the picture of Dr. Nicolosi exactly telling about the tragedy and truth of the gay agenda purposely marginalizing and refusing to offer validation to those seeking to re-orient/repair their disordered SSA.

Exactly. All from NARTH.

 

[setter]

Exactly. All from NARTH.

As a thoughtful and rational person of faith, I do not accept your automatic rejection of any information sourcing from NARTH as biased, unscientific and/or agenda driven and unworthy of any serious consideration. Here is a thorough non-NARTH source (from a Latter-day Saints affiliated ministry) for you to give thoughtful consideration of:

Myths

Sometimes misinformation is spread by word of mouth or by the news media. This section exists to provide answers to common myths.

Myth: People don’t overcome same-sex attraction.
Myth: People are born gay. It’s all genetic.
Myth: The psychological associations in America denounce trying to change. It is unethical to even try.
Myth: All the efforts to make people change are doing more harm than good.
Myth: Organizations that try to help people to change are failing.
Myth: Evergreen uses torturous aversion therapy to make people straight.
Myth: You can support same-gender sexual relationships and still be a good member of the Church.
Myth: If you don’t agree with the gay activists, you are a homophobe.

Evergreen International is the most complete resource
for Latter-day Saints on same-sex attraction.

Evergreen is a nonprofit organization that helps people who want to diminish same-sex attractions and overcome homosexual behavior. It is also a resource to their loved ones, professional counselors, religious leaders, and friends.

evergreeninternational.org/Myths.htm

BTW – I see that you continue to ignore this portion of my post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by **setter **
Why is that do you think?

 

[HoppityRedux]

As a thoughtful and rational person of faith, I do not accept your automatic rejection of any information sourcing from NARTH as biased, unscientific and/or agenda driven and unworthy of any serious consideration. Here is a thorough non-NARTH source (from a Latter-day Saints affiliated ministry) for you to give thoughtful consideration of:

evergreeninternational.org/Myths.htm

BTW – I see that you continue to ignore this portion of my post:

Dapper was looking for personal testimony. I responded, “I think it will be very difficult to find anyone outside of NARTH spokesmen who will testify to the effectiveness of their method.”

You ask why that is. I don’t know. I simply observe the absence over several years.

I note the LDS item is not a testimony of the type Dapper requested.

 

[setter]

Dapper was looking for personal testimony. I responded, “I think it will be very difficult to find anyone outside of NARTH spokesmen who will testify to the effectiveness of their method.”

Have you even considered the simple reason being that the compassion, resources and therapy that this organization offers is effective for certain SSA afflicted folks?

You ask why that is. I don’t know. I simply observe the absence over several years.

Answer: PC

I note the LDS item is not a testimony of the type Dapper requested.

A very good clinically documented resource none the less.

 

[HoppityRedux]

Have you even considered the simple reason being that the compassion, resources and therapy that this organization offers is effective for certain SSA afflicted folks?

Answer: PC

A very good clinically documented resource none the less.

No. I do not consider that an effective therapy is a reason we see no testimony from subjects.

The LDS reference still does not provide testimony from subjects.

 

[dapper]

Setter and Hoppity,

Thank you both for trying in your own unique ways to provide testimony, data, and “truth” through other sources, data, url’s etc. I actually received a great email from someone who went through this type of “therapy/reversal.” He informed me of what the process was, why he decided to do it, what he learned in the process and how he is doing now (results were iffy).

I did not want to argue with anyone about this. Setter has a way of making an arguement about it (that’s just Setter though!) but the nice man who emailed me just answered my questions as I had so plainly asked someone to do. I was just curious as to why one would want to go through something like that. I do not judge/blame one for wanting to try. It is not easy being gay! I have been through some tough times with it in my own life but am very happy with it now. I have found peace in it and thank God for the way He made me. I have been out for 10 years now.

I think it’s important that the subject of homosexuality is talked about on this forum. I know what the CCC states about it and for what it’s worth, I think that that we need to constantly remind the Christians/Catholics on this site that they may “hate the sin, but not the sinner.” Not that I think I am a sinner for it but our presence on this forum will at least bring a better understanding to Catholics what it is like to be gay and to also remind folks that we are human beings and need to be treated as such.

I think that 50 years ago, this kind of open conversation would not be happening. However, it feels as though there are some on this site (not either of you) that would prefer it be that way. It was far too easy to demonize and de-humanize homosexuals back then.

Thanks for the posts!

 

[setter]

No. I do not consider that an effective therapy is a reason we see no testimony from subjects.

Then you are in some serious denial. Go take a look again at those pic’s from the web link that you provided – those are real people, i.e., “subjects”. Do you not consider this “evidence” of an actual phenomenon? As I asked dapper, I now ask you: Are you seeking truth? Or are you only just seeking the “evidence” that confirms you own pre-determined agenda? Let the facts and evidence speak for itself, and not unvalidate the real life expereince of those who have successfully re-oriented their SSA to a properly ordered OSA sexual orientation.

 

[setter]

It is not easy being gay! I have been through some tough times with it in my own life but am very happy with it now. I have found peace in it and thank God for the way He made me. I have been out for 10 years now.

God did not in His original design create anyone with SSA. It is a fallacy of understanding [rejection of natural moral law] to believe otherwise, and the gay agenda folks have done a fine strategic job of duping those so afflicted and many others in society of just this distortion and lie. I do not like being lied to, nor should you.

I think it’s important that the subject of homosexuality is talked about on this forum. I know what the CCC states about it and for what it’s worth, I think that that we need to constantly remind the Christians/Catholics on this site that they may “hate the sin, but not the sinner.”

You then posit that one cannot “love the sinner and hate the sin” while being consonant with what the Catholic Church teaches (CCC) and transmits as revealed truth?

Not that I think I am a sinner for it but our presence on this forum will at least bring a better understanding to Catholics what it is like to be gay and to also remind folks that we are human beings and need to be treated as such.

Can you then further increase our understanding by explaining what is the basis for this bold and presumptuous statement of your’s that flies directly against with what Jesus Christ teaches through his Body the Church? Are you guilty discarding the Creator’s absolute basis for reality, i.e., His instilled natural moral law design manual, in favor of the belief system/philosophy of relativism?

I think that 50 years ago, this kind of open conversation would not be happening. However, it feels as though there are some on this site (not either of you) that would prefer it be that way. It was far too easy to demonize and de-humanize homosexuals back then.

Thanks for the posts!

I agree and your welcome. Again, knowledge without truth is folly and leads to unhappines and unltimate despair; where as knowledge with truth is wisdom and leads one to happiness and ultimate freedom to be what God created one to be in the fullness of their life and person. Why do you think the Son of God had to suffer and die on the cross in order to gain freedom for us created beings from the shackles of disordered desire and sin? I sincerely hope that you do not continue to be swept along the road that leads to personal destruction.

 

[dapper]

Thanks Setter. But I am happy! There is not one bit of CCC verbiage that states that one cannot be happy with the sexual orientation that has been given to them - whether you think it’s “disordered” or not. You and I are going to have to agree to disagree. As I had said before, I am not going to debate you point to point about it because, there is no debate to be had and that was not the original intent of this post.

As I always, I appreciate your posts but fail to connect with it. That’s just how it will be.

That said, I am still open to hear anymore’s testimony to the treatment or reversal of SSA/homosexuality. Again, I would like to know:

– Why you chose to do this
– What the process was/is
– If you felt the treatment was successful
– Where you are in your life now

If you need to contact me privately via email, please do so. Thanks!