Questions for charismatics

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Are you sure this is during Mass? Authentic Catholic groups do not combine prayers for healing with the Mass—The Mass is completed, and after the Mass, there are prayers for healing.

PS I thought you were not to post the same post in more than one place
 
I don’t believe the Pope would ever, ever, appove of scenes like this whether they were during a Mass, or at a healing service, or at any other Catholic service whatsoever.

This type of scene cannot speak for all charismatic groups.

Unfortunately this is all that many of us who have grave misgivings about the CCR have ever witnessed.

Maria
 
Exactly what have you personally ever wittnessed? I am not speaking of hearsay–what your friends have wittnessed.
 
Greetings

The picture is probably not taken at a Mass, however, it could have been taken at a Prayer meeting or healing service. It also could be very Catholic. Over the past 30 years, thousands of folks have “rested in the Spirit”. I believe it is a move of the Holy Spirit in many cases. Has there been abuses, of course there have. However, I believe and so do most Charismatics that the experience is also genuine. For all of the clergy and theologians who do not approve there are just as many who believe it is for real.

I do not usually see folks hanging around Charismatic worship taking pictures. I could use my camera to prove anything I was looking to prove, if that was my motive.

Resting in the Spirit is not something to be ashamed of or hidden. It happens and it happens quite often and for the most part the FRUITS speak for the experience.
 
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misericordie:
Why is it that many charismatic masses like this one in the picture are like this:http://www.traditio.com/comment/com0310k.jpg
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???RESTING IN THE SPIRIT??? smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_6.gif
 
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Mysty101:
Exactly what have you personally ever wittnessed? I am not speaking of hearsay–what your friends have wittnessed.
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I have been invited to speak at charismatic gatherings several times.

I made my decision based on the advice of a very holy, faithful priest.

I came to CA hoping to find CCR people who were interested in seeking holiness through living their calling as the pope sees it.

My priest friend’s advice was right on the mark.

I still firmly believe there will someday be a maturing of the CCR and it’s people here in the US as there is in Italy.

Maria
 
1 Maria:
I have been invited to speak at charismatic gatherings several times.
Maria
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May I ask the details of these invitations? You seem very skeptical of most Charismatic style worship. I don’t understand why they would ask you to speak. What was the topic?
 
Makerteacher,

You may be long-winded, but it was well worth it. I’m referring to posts #152 and #153. What you describe is what I would call a Christian community with the full connotations of what that means going right back to the early 1st century church. I want to sincerely thank you for that description, and quite frankly, the moniker charismatic seemsirrelevant and I must say, I would feel absolutely at home in that community.

It sounds to me as though it sees its mission as addressing the spiritual needs of any and all Catholics with a strong emphasis on catechesis.

WRT ALPHA. I’ve seen advertising for it right here in our diocese at one parish. I know that those who promote it and there is a Catholic Office dedicated to it, believe that they can, using add-ons, form those that go through it into the doctrines of the Catholic Church. My contention is that it may be false advertising in the sense that it promotes the Protestant charismaticism and many go to it with that in mind. It drags us into dealing with the “power evangelism” of the Benny Hinn types of the world and is a distortion of the order, if nothing else. I know why it is done. It attracts certain people who are looking for spirituality and they want results now.
Well, you and I know that faith in Jesus Christ, and a personal relationship with Him certainly gives results now, and there may even be spontaneous signs of the in-filling of the Holy Spirit. But we know that the change is internal, in our hearts, and it may be gradual, it may be sudden, but it involves what I don’t think most people are given to understand from ALPHA, whether they are baptized Catholic, or are a pagan.
We have to first, give up, voluntarily, our will, our wishes, our dreams, our opinions of ourselves, our wealth, our families, our very **lives, **to Jesus Christ, recognizing that we are sinners in need of salvation. It is in that act of total self-sacrifice to Jesus Christ that we love Him and find that He fills us with the Holy Spirit.
You know, and I know, that is very difficult to do, and it is with the help of the Holy Spirit that we can even approximate it in the first place. But that is the gateway, that is the door through which we enter, Jesus Christ. He is the Way. All power is given to Him, Jesus Christ. We don’t direct people to seek spirituality first, We direct them to seek Jesus, fall on their knees in repentance and ask Jesus Christ to save them, enter their lives and take command. He does that through the Holy Spirit and that is the order of the gospel, and that is what I mean by Christo-centric.
 
Magnificent post, Les,

We have to first, give up, voluntarily, our will, our wishes, our dreams, our opinions of ourselves, our wealth, our families, our very lives, to Jesus Christ, recognizing that we are sinners in need of salvation. It is in that act of total self-sacrifice to Jesus Christ that we love Him and find that He fills us with the Holy Spirit.
You know, and I know, that is very difficult to do, and it is with the help of the Holy Spirit that we can even approximate it in the first place. But that is the gateway, that is the door through which we enter, Jesus Christ. He is the Way. All power is given to Him, Jesus Christ. We don’t direct people to seek spirituality first, We direct them to seek Jesus, fall on their knees in repentance and ask Jesus Christ to save them, enter their lives and take command. He does that through the Holy Spirit and that is the order of the gospel, and that is what I mean by Christo-centric.

Maria
 
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Mysty101:
May I ask the details of these invitations? You seem very skeptical of most Charismatic style worship. I don’t understand why they would ask you to speak. What was the topic?
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Mary,

You still haven’t answered my question. You have very strong opinions about Charismatic worship, but still have not given us any detail of your personal experience.
 
1 Maria:
Magnificent post, Les,

We have to first, give up, voluntarily, our will, our wishes, our dreams, our opinions of ourselves, our wealth, our families, our very lives, to Jesus Christ, recognizing that we are sinners in need of salvation. It is in that act of total self-sacrifice to Jesus Christ that we love Him and find that He fills us with the Holy Spirit.
You know, and I know, that is very difficult to do, and it is with the help of the Holy Spirit that we can even approximate it in the first place. But that is the gateway, that is the door through which we enter, Jesus Christ. He is the Way. All power is given to Him, Jesus Christ. We don’t direct people to seek spirituality first, We direct them to seek Jesus, fall on their knees in repentance and ask Jesus Christ to save them, enter their lives and take command. He does that through the Holy Spirit and that is the order of the gospel, and that is what I mean by Christo-centric.

Maria
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Les, are you a member of the CCR and if so, is your whole group formed according to what Jesus teaches us in the Gospel?

Maria
 
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gnome:
MakerTeacher,
Thanks for sharing the many groups in your community. I have seen parishes with variety of groups, functions, activities, involving
adults and/or children. There’s no doubt that many of these communities establish the bond and grow tremendously without realizing any concept about being charismatic. My parish has been a good example. So the question is what makes a community charismatic?
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LOLOL! 😃 sorry! I did not make it more clear. Come to one of our prayer meetins and you’ll know within minutes that we are charismatics. What will tell you this? The way we worship at our prayer meetings, and the way we pray when we are gathered together. Lots of singing, LOUD praise, use of prayer tongues and the occasional speaking in tongues, lifting of arms, etc etc. Plus, we strive to have an open attitude to the promptings of the Holy Spirit.
 
MiserieCordie

There are a number of reasons I suspect that photo was not taken during a Mass. First of all, flash photography is not acceptable during a Mass. Secondly, everyone is sitting not in pews but in chairs, like in a parish hall or something. I realize some parishes do not have pews. Thirdly, the people are looking in all directions. During Mass, attention is directed to the altar. Finally, the clothing of the people does not indicate that this is a regular Mass at all.

It’s possible that it’s a Mass. If so, “resting in the Spirit” should not be occuring DURING a Mass. It’s a time for focusing ONLY on the magnificent sacrifice of Our Lord Jesus Christ and the redemption by which we are all offered salvation.

I have seen people rest in the Spirit, and yes they do often lie down on the floor, with arms “akimbo” (I love that word) or, more often, folded peacefully over their chests. Rarely do they do so in the center of aisles. When we have had prayer services where being slain in the Spirit was a possiblity, we have always set up prayer stations around the outside perimeter of the room. If people want to, they can go to one of those stations and be prayed over. Sometimes they fall. Often, they don’t. Both are fine and in no way does being slain indicate that the prayer is “working” better. It’s not a magical experience. Those who do fall usually remain down for a few moments, and afterwards speak of an overwhelming sense of peace and security that lasts for days and drives them into deeper, more frequent, and richer prayer.

I have been slain in the Spirit exactly twice in my two decades of life as a Charismatic Catholic, and once was at my Confirmation, BEFORE I even knew who the charismatics were. I go to prayer meeting every Sunday, almost without fail. I would equate the experience to going really deep into silent contemplative prayer, where hours pass in seconds and all you feel is joy. For literally months afterwards, all I had to do was think of the experience to feel again some of that peace, and it still makes me smile.

It’s not a regular occurance. It’s not something we seek out or aim for or brag about. I agree that it can be and has been abused. That fact does not invalidate the experience.
 
Les Richardson:
I’m referring to posts #152 and #153. What you describe is what I would call a Christian community with the full connotations of what that means going right back to the early 1st century church. I want to sincerely thank you for that description, and quite frankly, the moniker charismatic seemsirrelevant and I must say, I would feel absolutely at home in that community…
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You would be welcomed anytime. I did NOT go into details about what our prayer meetings are like. THAT is where you would see the charismatic side of us come out. And how! Our worship and praise is loud, exhuberant, and often in tongues of praise. We sing like our lives depend on it. In our Masses, you would be hard pressed to find any indication of that rowdier side.

We are Catholics first, and charismatics second.
Les Richardson:
It sounds to me as though it sees its mission as addressing the spiritual needs of any and all Catholics with a strong emphasis on catechesis.

Well, you and I know that faith in Jesus Christ, and a personal relationship with Him certainly gives results now, and there may even be spontaneous signs of the in-filling of the Holy Spirit. But we know that the change is internal, in our hearts, and it may be gradual, it may be sudden, but it involves what I don’t think most people are given to understand from ALPHA, whether they are baptized Catholic, or are a pagan.
We have to first, give up, voluntarily, our will, our wishes, our dreams, our opinions of ourselves, our wealth, our families, our very **lives, **to Jesus Christ, recognizing that we are sinners in need of salvation. It is in that act of total self-sacrifice to Jesus Christ that we love Him and find that He fills us with the Holy Spirit.
You know, and I know, that is very difficult to do, and it is with the help of the Holy Spirit that we can even approximate it in the first place. But that is the gateway, that is the door through which we enter, Jesus Christ. He is the Way. All power is given to Him, Jesus Christ. We don’t direct people to seek spirituality first, We direct them to seek Jesus, fall on their knees in repentance and ask Jesus Christ to save them, enter their lives and take command. He does that through the Holy Spirit and that is the order of the gospel, and that is what I mean by Christo-centric.
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Amen and amen.

It is my desire in life to be known as a radical Christian.
 
Makerteacher,

You seem to have as much experience with C.P. as anyone. May I ask one or two questions?
  1. Would you say that after you have been “slain in the spirit” or have prayed or spoken in “tongues”, you have a more intense or closer relationship with the Holy Spirit than people who have not done that.
  2. Describe the personality that lends itself to the Charismatic Style.
 
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Exporter:
Makerteacher,

You seem to have as much experience with C.P. as anyone. May I ask one or two questions?
  1. Would you say that after you have been “slain in the spirit” or have prayed or spoken in “tongues”, you have a more intense or closer relationship with the Holy Spirit than people who have not done that.
  2. Describe the personality that lends itself to the Charismatic Style.
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Are you asking about Centering Prayer or CCR- Catholic Charismatic Renewal? These are 2 very different forms of prayer, and usually proponants of one, do not feel the connection with the other—CP is a more contempletative style of prayer, while CCR is a very enthusiastic and active style.
 
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Makerteacher:
LOLOL! 😃 sorry! I did not make it more clear. Come to one of our prayer meetins and you’ll know within minutes that we are charismatics. What will tell you this? The way we worship at our prayer meetings, and the way we pray when we are gathered together. Lots of singing, LOUD praise, use of prayer tongues and the occasional speaking in tongues, lifting of arms, etc etc. Plus, we strive to have an open attitude to the promptings of the Holy Spirit.
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Charismatic prayer meetings held by individual groups does not make the whole community/parish charismatic. Is there any parish where the whole congregation, besides Sunday Mass,
would attend one specific type of prayer meeting? I never been in or heard of any. So if Sunday Mass in your parish is just like any other parish, then what makes it a charismatic parish/community?
 
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Makerteacher:
prayed over. Sometimes they fall. Often, they don’t. Both are fine and in no way does being slain indicate that the prayer is “working” better. It’s not a magical experience. Those who do fall usually remain down for a few moments, and afterwards speak of an overwhelming sense of peace and security that lasts for days and drives them into deeper, more frequent, and richer prayer.
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“In no way does being slain indicate that the prayer is working better”, nor do the sense of peace and security indicate the Holy Spirit is working, because the peace, the richer prayer can occur due to psychological factor. But it can be worse since St. Paul warns the devil can appears as the angel of light, and St. Ignatius said when we choose to be on the wrong path, we do get consolation too but certainly not from the Holy Spirit.
 
misericordie said:
:whistle: :hmmm:
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You still have not identified this picture, or given any valid documentation as to what is happening.

If it is a photo from a publication, I think you are violating the copywrite laws, and the rules of the forum.

And I do repeat—authentic Catholic groups do not have prayers for healing during the Mass.
 
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