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dzheremi
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My Platenese is a bit rusty, but I would guess it’s something like that, Matt.
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inJESUS
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Isa_Almisry
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LOL.Islam: Sola Scriptura for people who like blowing things up.
Btw, Angelos thanks for responding for me to amerian convert.
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Isa_Almisry
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ROFL.My Platenese is a bit rusty, but I would guess it’s something like that, Matt.
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fritz
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I guess Kristin wearied, while “muslim” carried on bravely thru fourteen pages attempting to chat about "scientific miracles"in the Koran.
Will someone please define “miracle” and then define “scientific” and finally define “scientific miracle” and then start over.
If you are not talking about the same thing(s), then there is small wonder that no one got anywhere as this thread so beautifully demonstrates (and everyone probably went home feeling bilious).
Fritz
Will someone please define “miracle” and then define “scientific” and finally define “scientific miracle” and then start over.
If you are not talking about the same thing(s), then there is small wonder that no one got anywhere as this thread so beautifully demonstrates (and everyone probably went home feeling bilious).
Fritz
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mattkubes
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I think that’s important, because we clearly have different concepts of miracles. I was on a pretty well-developed site last night that is devoted to proving Islam/disproving Chritianity (they do a terrible job, btw) and this miracle was quoted as a “very important discovery.”
With a picture of the Orion Nebula, this verse was written as an obvious miracle (are you sitting down?): “Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke…(The Noble Quran, 41:11)”
I’ll leave the scientific inaccuracies/total removal of context to you. If these are the miracles that are used to prove that the Quran is right…well, I’m not buying it.
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Angelos
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You are welcome.
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planten
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Quote:
**The above was not any post from me. It has been designed for me. I request that such practice should stop. It misleads people. If your God does not lie and does not cheat then you should also not try to cheat.
Something which does not belong to me, why it is printed and put up in my name? Being clever?**
**The above is the reply by dzheremi to my supposed post. It shows that dz is tired and has no real proper reply now for anything. It is planned by the christians to cheat and cause confusion here. I had noticed one case of this nature before too. The admin should take notice please.
Why something had been put up in my name when I did not write it?
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**The above was not any post from me. It has been designed for me. I request that such practice should stop. It misleads people. If your God does not lie and does not cheat then you should also not try to cheat.
Something which does not belong to me, why it is printed and put up in my name? Being clever?**
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**The above is the reply by dzheremi to my supposed post. It shows that dz is tired and has no real proper reply now for anything. It is planned by the christians to cheat and cause confusion here. I had noticed one case of this nature before too. The admin should take notice please.
Why something had been put up in my name when I did not write it?
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planten
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**Good question. A miracle is something unusual, not expected but not totally impossible. It may an advance news of the future. It may be an unusual birth, an unusual safety, like that of Moses a.s. after birth, or like that of prophet Muhammad who was about to be killed at night. He fled the scene and went to Madina from Makkah. He migrated in very difficult circumstances. There was a price of 100 red camels on his head. He was wanted dead or alive. He had to take shelter in a cave for a day or two.
Then the difficult journey of about 400 Km from Makkah to Madinah is not easy. During his struggle against the Pagans of Makkah, he had predicted their downfall which happened like that after many (say 20 years) in his lifetime. It could not be less than a miracle.
A miracle is nothing totally impossible. It has some possibilty, little possibilty, almost nil sometimes. The miracle is performed by Allah for the sake of his chosen servants, to help them or to prove their truth. It is never a deed of the men at all. It is from God for the sake of men.
The men, the prophets cannot perform miracles on their own. They can only pray to Allah (God) for something and the help arrives. I can just mention one good example of the children of Jacob (Israelis) under the command of Moses a.s. coming out safe from Egypt through some seawater and the drowning of their enemy, the Pharoah and his hosts.
I hope it is enough for now. I can give a few more examples.**
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**Good question. A miracle is something unusual, not expected but not totally impossible. It may an advance news of the future. It may be an unusual birth, an unusual safety, like that of Moses a.s. after birth, or like that of prophet Muhammad who was about to be killed at night. He fled the scene and went to Madina from Makkah. He migrated in very difficult circumstances. There was a price of 100 red camels on his head. He was wanted dead or alive. He had to take shelter in a cave for a day or two.
Then the difficult journey of about 400 Km from Makkah to Madinah is not easy. During his struggle against the Pagans of Makkah, he had predicted their downfall which happened like that after many (say 20 years) in his lifetime. It could not be less than a miracle.
A miracle is nothing totally impossible. It has some possibilty, little possibilty, almost nil sometimes. The miracle is performed by Allah for the sake of his chosen servants, to help them or to prove their truth. It is never a deed of the men at all. It is from God for the sake of men.
The men, the prophets cannot perform miracles on their own. They can only pray to Allah (God) for something and the help arrives. I can just mention one good example of the children of Jacob (Israelis) under the command of Moses a.s. coming out safe from Egypt through some seawater and the drowning of their enemy, the Pharoah and his hosts.
I hope it is enough for now. I can give a few more examples.**
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dzheremi
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Hahahaha. I guess I would never go broke betting against Muslims having a sense of humor. 
Yes, by all means, report me for my “lie”. Continue to infantilize yourselves, ummah. Take your ball, go home, and stay there.
Yes, by all means, report me for my “lie”. Continue to infantilize yourselves, ummah. Take your ball, go home, and stay there.
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mattkubes
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Haha I thought the joke was pretty clear…planten needs to lighten up.Hahahaha. I guess I would never go broke betting against Muslims having a sense of humor.
Yes, by all means, report me for my “lie”. Continue to infantilize yourselves, ummah. Take your ball, go home, and stay there.
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Angelos
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Isn’t planten the guy who fabricates heretical accounts and tries to insert them into the New Testament?
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mattkubes
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Oh, so maybe he was just cracking jokes this whole time?? To be honest, they weren’t all that funny…Isn’t planten the guy who fabricates heretical accounts and tries to insert them into the New Testament?
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planten
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**Oh, angelos, I never go near bible NT except with great respect. I do no tgo near it to modify anything. I always use what is there and done by your own people. **.Isn’t planten the guy who fabricates heretical accounts and tries to insert them into the New Testament?
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mattkubes
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Well, that’s a lie - but every time we prove you wrong, you dodge the issue, refuse to respond, and move onto another heretical interpretation of our scriptures
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Angelos
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How can you say this when everyone on the forum has seen me ask you several times to stop distorting the NT by reading into the text what is not there???
For instance, you always claim that Jesus asked His disciples to pray FOR HIM when He was in anguish before his arrest in the garden. Each time I ask you to cite reference from the NT narratives, you suddenly go blind and deaf.
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planten
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** Angelos, there will never be any agreement between I and You. i.e. you read the things differently and interpret them to your advantage all the time. You ignore and deny the obvious things.
Here you are asking me about the disciples to pray for him. The problem is FOR HIM here. But you know, your position is very weak all around. Jesus is your god. Can you tell me why that God was praying? Do Gods also pray? Jesus was a simple man. He was not any god.
Jesus was praying in the garden to avoid the cup. That is for sure. He did not want to drink it.
He was praying to avoid the cup. he told his disciples to pray too. What for? For some purpose other than what he was praying for? That would be bad, that Jesus praying for one immediate purpose and the disciples to pray for something else. Cannot be like that. He was asking the Disciples to pray for the same thing. See Mathew 26 below:
40Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. “Could you men not keep watch with me for one hour?” he asked Peter. 41"Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak." **
Whose spirit is willing but body is weak? He is telling his friends to pray for him because his spirit is willing but body is weak.
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Angelos
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There will never be an agreement between you and me as long as you contradict yourself and deny the fact that you attempt to distort my scripture. You deliberately force your mistaken inferences into the narrative of Jesus’ agony in the garden. When I ask you to cite reference for your arguments, you always fail and choose to become evasive. This is not honest.
Now you are once more saying something totally irrelevant to my questions. When I ask you to quote from the New Testament the verse where Jesus supposedly asked His disciples to pray FOR HIM, you present your already rebutted allegations that are derived from your reluctance to accept the incarnation and the relation between the distinct persons of the Triune God. Jesus was not a god unlike Mohammad bin Abdallah, but the God in flesh.
There is something you ignore: Jesus emphasised the fact that He was in anguish as a result of the temptation. He prayed to resist the temptation, and God the Father sent an angel to strengthen Him for His passion.
This is your mistaken and absurd interpretation of the narrative in Matthew’s Gospel. Jesus asks His disciples to pray for THEMSELVES rather than for Himself. Jesus is the only awake person praying to avoid the temptation whereas ALL of His disciples present with Him are asleep. This is why Jesus rebukes them to WATCH and KEEP AWAKE like Him rather than sleep. Since Jesus apparently associates the weakness of the body with His disciples’ sleep, He does not mean that His own body is weak.
I do not want you to present your interpretation of the narrative though. I simply want you to QUOTE the verse where Jesus tells His disicples “Pray for ME”. Still waiting with patience. If you cannot bring evidence, you must apologise for aiming to pervert my scripture!
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planten
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** I have quoted the verse where Jesus told his disciples to pray. It is a problem that a god is praying. That is another of your problem. We do not believe that a god needs to pray.
Then you want me to believe in the distorted meaning of the verses. Who told you those meanings? I can understand that Jesus was praying to avoid the cup. You are altering the meaning of that too. You are suggesting something impossible. It is clear that Jesus did not want to be crucified. he did not want to die on the cross. Simple as that. And he was not a god. he was praying to his God to save him and to avoid what was coming for him.
Jesus was praying for something and he wanted his disciples to pray too. But you are trying to alter the meaning there too that he wanted them to pray for themselves. Where is that written in the verse that he wanted them to pray for themsleves. You are making it up.
I believe that Jesus and his disciples cannot be praying to the real God or two different things. They were praying for the one and same thing. In that context, we see that Jesus was asking his disciples to join him in prayer so that the God avoid the cup which was coming for Jesus.
The angel was strengthening Jesus. True. But not against his will. The angel told Jesus that his prayer was accepted. That will strenghten him. Not that his request or prayer is not accepted.
Please angelos, you have been reading the bible or it has been read to you in a certain way in the past. Now you please relax and read it in a simple and straight way. Thanks. We believe that part of the bible is all correct. Our Quran also supports it and says that the prayer of Jesus was accepted.**
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Sister_Amy
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Why do you even have to ask this silly question? Seriously, if you would simply understand that Jesus is a man and therefore Jesus is not God, then you wouldn’t even have to ask that question. And that’s better than an answer!
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