Quran 5:116

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All right… This is just for testing…
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Muslims believe that everyone is going to be held accountable.
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Well, the Christians and the Jews do believe this also.

About saints performing miracles (even so-called “saints” in Islam), I generally discount them totally. That’s my personal opinion, because I don’t have any verifiable proof. Nobody can really prove they happened (or, for that matter, can prove that they didn’t happen.) So I won’t argue it with you.
I’m sure you know my opinion about praying to saints (if not, my opinion is that it’s a big no-no) and my proof (namely, the Qur’an, which I believe to be the miraculously revealed word of God.
Writing after the last word QUOTE into brackets has not been a problem for me, though! This time, I had simply forgotten, that’s all!
 
From the essay by King Abdullah:

“King Abdullah also asks how Jews can claim a historic right to Palestine, when Arabs have been the overwhelming majority there for nearly 1,300 uninterrupted years?..With very minor exceptions, Jews have lived for many centuries in the Middle East, in complete peace and friendliness with their Arab neighbors.”

Response:

Who lived in “Palestine” before Muslims hoards took it over? Obviously from King Abdullah’s statement, the Jews, for the Jews who supposedly “lived in complete peace and friendliness with their Arab neighbors” did not all of a sudden drop from the sky; they were there before the Muslim conquest. “The Muslim historian Baladhuri (d. 892 AD), maintained that 30,000 Samaritans and 20,000 Jews lived in Caesarea alone just prior to the Arab Muslim conquest; afterward, all evidence of them disappears. Archaeological data confirms the lasting devastation wrought by these initial jihad conquests, particularly the widespread destruction of synagogues and churches from the Byzantine era, whose remnants are still being unearthed.”

In addition to the Jews there were Christians. It is a matter of historical record that Muslims invaded and took over all of that part of the Middle East somewhere around the year 636 AD.

“Occupation by force of arms, in their own eyes, in the eyes of Islam, is not at all associated with injustice. To the contrary, it constitutes a certificate and demonstration of authentic ownership.”

Not only does the Muslim believe that, as conqueror, his conquest “constitutes a certificate and demonstration of authentic ownership” but also that this ownership continues even if the land is retaken by a non-Muslim force. The reason for this is, as stated before, the conjured command from Allah to conquer the whole world for Muslim rule. So if we are to agree with the Muslim view that land belongs to him by right of conquest, then he has to grant the same consideration to those who conquer land under Islamic rule. Of course, you will never hear this from Muslims because they do not believe they commit any aggression at all; it’s the kafir who is the aggressor simply by his existence.

“The essential pattern of the jihad war is captured in the great Muslim historian al-Tabari’ s recording of the recommendation given by Umar b. al-Khattab to the commander of the troops he sent to al-Basrah (636 AD), during the conquest of Iraq. Umar reportedly said:

‘Summon the people to Allah; those who respond to your call, accept it from them, (This is to say, accept their conversion as genuine and refrain from fighting them), but those who refuse must pay the poll tax out of humiliation and lowliness. (Qur’an 9:29) If they refuse this, it is the sword without leniency. Fear Allah with regard to what you have been entrusted.’

“Violent jihad warfare on infidels is the norm, not the exception, in Islamic history. Once successful, jihad leads to the imposition of humiliating, degrading, violent, and expensive oppression under dhimmitude, the institutionalized imposition of a special tax and a lowly status upon those who refuse to abandon their faith and adopt Islam. ***Among the worst victims of jihad and dhimmitude have been the Jews and Christians who lived in historic Palestine. ***

In short, Blacks in the Jim Crow South endured far less maltreatment than dhimmis did under the Muslims.

“Jihad was pursued century after century, because jihad, which means ‘to strive in the path of Allah’, embodied an ideology and a jurisdiction. Both were formally conceived by Muslim jurisconsults and theologians from the 8th to 9th centuries onward, based on their interpretation of Qur’anic verses and long chapters in the Traditions (i.e., “hadith”, acts and sayings of the Prophet Muhammad, especially those recorded by al-Bukhari [d. 869 AD] and Muslim [d. 874 AD] ).

“…By the time of the classical Muslim historian al-Tabari’s death in 923 AD, jihad wars had expanded the Muslim empire from Portugal to the Indian subcontinent. Subsequent Muslim conquests continued in Asia, as well as parts of Eastern Europe were also conquered and Islamized.

“Arab Muslim invaders engaged, additionally, in continuous jihad raids that ravaged and enslaved Sub-Saharan African animist populations, extending to the southern Sudan. When the Muslim armies were stopped at the gates of Vienna in 1683, over a millennium of jihad had transpired.”

As far as how Jews fared in Christian Europe is concerned, “…we cannot ignore the testimony of Isaac B. Samuel of Acre (1270-1350 AD), one of the most outstanding Kabbalists of his time. Conversant with Islamic theology and often using Arabic in his exegesis, Isaac nevertheless believed that it was preferable to live under the yoke of Christendom, rather than that of Islamdom.”

Bear in mind here that those Christians who mistreated Jews, or anyone for that matter, did so against Christ’s teaching; Muslims who mistreat non-believers do so in imitation of their prophet Mohammed, their “perfect” example.

What all this means is the land belongs to the Muslim conqueror, but King Abdullah is not willing to grant this to others, e.g., the Spanish Conquistadors or the Jews.

So the claim that, “With very minor exceptions, Jews have lived for many centuries in the Middle East, in complete peace and friendliness with their Arab neighbors” is just Muslim fantasy. What goes around comes around.

Ref: “The Legacy of Jihad in Historical Palestine”, by Andrew G. Bostom , americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=4999
 
The Qu’ran forgot to mention also Joseph, spouse of Mary, Jesus’ mother, who received one of Gabriel’s announciation according to the Gospel according to Matthew, chapter 1 or 2 (I don’t have the NT in front of me, but the passage about this is in one of those two chapters, I am sure of this!)
The Quran, even though, did not name Joseph the carpentar, but gives a beautiful description of the marriage of Mary. It was all arranged by Allah. The husband (Joseph) was chosen by Allah. But name is not mentioned in the Quran. (Al-Quran chapter 3.)
 
The Quran, even though, did not name Joseph the carpentar, but gives a beautiful description of the marriage of Mary. It was all arranged by Allah. The husband (Joseph) was chosen by Allah. But name is not mentioned in the Quran. (Al-Quran chapter 3.)
Could you point out the appropriate passage, please. I looked over chapter 3 from this site: etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=HolKora.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=3&division=div1, but I couldn’t find a mention of Mary’s spouse. Although I may have just missed it. (The chapter is long and seems to skip around. 😦 ) Thank you.
 
Could you point out the appropriate passage, please. I looked over chapter 3 from this site: etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=HolKora.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=3&division=div1, but I couldn’t find a mention of Mary’s spouse. Although I may have just missed it. (The chapter is long and seems to skip around. 😦 ) Thank you.
**Jay53, Please see below, specially the verse 3:44.

[3:42] وَاِذْ قَالَتِ الْمَلٰٓٮِٕكَةُ يٰمَرْيَمُ اِنَّ اللّٰهَ اصْطَفٰٮكِ وَطَهَّرَكِ وَاصْطَفٰٮكِ عَلٰى نِسَآءِ الْعٰلَمِيْنَ‏
[3:42] And remember when the angels said, ‘O Mary, Allah has chosen thee and purified thee and chosen thee above all the women of all peoples**.

[3:43] يٰمَرْيَمُ اقْنُتِىْ لِرَبِّكِ وَاسْجُدِىْ وَارْكَعِىْ مَعَ الرّٰكِعِيْنَ
[3:43] ‘O Mary, be obedient to thy Lord and prostrate thyself and worship God alone with those who worship.’

[3:44] ذٰلِكَ مِنْ اَنْۢبَآءِ الْغَيْبِ نُوْحِيْهِ اِلَيْكَ‌ؕ وَمَا كُنْتَ لَدَيْهِمْ اِذْ يُلْقُوْنَ اَقْلاَمَهُمْ اَيُّهُمْ يَكْفُلُ مَرْيَمَ وَمَا كُنْتَ لَدَيْهِمْ اِذْ يَخْتَصِمُوْنَ‏
[3:44] This is of the tidings of good unseen things which We reveal to thee (O, Muhammad). And thou wast not with them when they cast their arrows, as to which of them should be the guardian of Mary, nor wast thou with them when they disputed with one another.
 
**Jay53, Please see below, specially the verse 3:44.

[3:42] وَاِذْ قَالَتِ الْمَلٰٓٮِٕكَةُ يٰمَرْيَمُ اِنَّ اللّٰهَ اصْطَفٰٮكِ وَطَهَّرَكِ وَاصْطَفٰٮكِ عَلٰى نِسَآءِ الْعٰلَمِيْنَ‏
[3:42] And remember when the angels said, ‘O Mary, Allah has chosen thee and purified thee and chosen thee above all the women of all peoples**.

[3:43] يٰمَرْيَمُ اقْنُتِىْ لِرَبِّكِ وَاسْجُدِىْ وَارْكَعِىْ مَعَ الرّٰكِعِيْنَ
[3:43] ‘O Mary, be obedient to thy Lord and prostrate thyself and worship God alone with those who worship.’

[3:44] ذٰلِكَ مِنْ اَنْۢبَآءِ الْغَيْبِ نُوْحِيْهِ اِلَيْكَ‌ؕ وَمَا كُنْتَ لَدَيْهِمْ اِذْ يُلْقُوْنَ اَقْلاَمَهُمْ اَيُّهُمْ يَكْفُلُ مَرْيَمَ وَمَا كُنْتَ لَدَيْهِمْ اِذْ يَخْتَصِمُوْنَ‏
[3:44] This is of the tidings of good unseen things which We reveal to thee (O, Muhammad). And thou wast not with them when they cast their arrows, as to which of them should be the guardian of Mary, nor wast thou with them when they disputed with one another.
I’m sorry Planten, I don’t buy it. I’ve read chapter 3 over and over and I must disagree with your conclusion.
Originally Posted by planten
The Quran, even though, did not name Joseph the carpentar, but gives a beautiful description of the marriage of Mary. It was all arranged by Allah. The husband (Joseph) was chosen by Allah. But name is not mentioned in the Quran. (Al-Quran chapter 3.)
I did find this en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_Mary
and I quote from the link:
Joseph, the magi, and manger are not mentioned in the Qur’anic narration. In Quran and Hadith, Allah was Mary’s only Provider.
It states that Allah was Mary’s only provider, therefore no marriage/wedding to Joseph/Carpenter took place.

Do any of our muslim members know anything about this.

Thanks and best regards - And May God Bless Us, Everyone!
Pam
New York
 
It states that Allah was Mary’s only provider, therefore no marriage/wedding to Joseph/Carpenter took place.

Do any of our muslim members know anything about this.
Muslims claim that these New Testament people were actually Muslims themselves. If that is true, then maybe our muslim members can also explain why Mary wasn’t stoned for being an unwed mother, according to Islamic law?
 
**Jay53, Please see below, specially the verse 3:44.

[3:42] وَاِذْ قَالَتِ الْمَلٰٓٮِٕكَةُ يٰمَرْيَمُ اِنَّ اللّٰهَ اصْطَفٰٮكِ وَطَهَّرَكِ وَاصْطَفٰٮكِ عَلٰى نِسَآءِ الْعٰلَمِيْنَ‏
[3:42] And remember when the angels said, ‘O Mary, Allah has chosen thee and purified thee and chosen thee above all the women of all peoples**.

[3:43] يٰمَرْيَمُ اقْنُتِىْ لِرَبِّكِ وَاسْجُدِىْ وَارْكَعِىْ مَعَ الرّٰكِعِيْنَ
[3:43] ‘O Mary, be obedient to thy Lord and prostrate thyself and worship God alone with those who worship.’

[3:44] ذٰلِكَ مِنْ اَنْۢبَآءِ الْغَيْبِ نُوْحِيْهِ اِلَيْكَ‌ؕ وَمَا كُنْتَ لَدَيْهِمْ اِذْ يُلْقُوْنَ اَقْلاَمَهُمْ اَيُّهُمْ يَكْفُلُ مَرْيَمَ وَمَا كُنْتَ لَدَيْهِمْ اِذْ يَخْتَصِمُوْنَ‏
[3:44] This is of the tidings of good unseen things which We reveal to thee (O, Muhammad). And thou wast not with them when they cast their arrows, as to which of them should be the guardian of Mary, nor wast thou with them when they disputed with one another.
Thank you, planten 🙂 , but I don’t see where it mentions Joseph either by name or by position (husband). Maybe with the “guardian of Mary” phrase in the last verse, but even that’s a stretch because it seems to be talking about people fighting about who would be the guardian of Mary - and I don’t know who that is - I don’t know of anyone fighting over being Mary’s husband or having such a dispute? :confused:
 
Muslims claim that these New Testament people were actually Muslims themselves. If that is true, then maybe our muslim members can also explain why Mary wasn’t stoned for being an unwed mother, according to Islamic law?
When the baby Jesus was born, he spoke in the cradle clearing his mother of the charge of adultery.
 
When the baby Jesus was born, he spoke in the cradle clearing his mother of the charge of adultery.
I’m familiar with this story but on reflection it begs the question how would anyone after seeing a sign as clear as this doubt or be against Jesus as he grew older?

Also for a child to produce such a sign it’s hard to imagine jewish historians not recording his life from an early age.

With all respect to muslims this is one of many examples that sound like tales whipped up by Mohammeds imagination or from borrowed stories off heretical Jewish and Christian sects who were in Arabia at the time. There are other biblical stories in the Koran where even names are mixed up or mythical figures appear such as Kaddir.

I can understand the moral of the story which Mohammad Narrates in ‘The Cave’ but it comes over in bad taste. Was that meant to be a metaphor or was he actually saying it happened?
 
I’m familiar with this story but on reflection it begs the question how would anyone after seeing a sign as clear as this doubt or be against Jesus as he grew older?

Also for a child to produce such a sign it’s hard to imagine jewish historians not recording his life from an early age.

With all respect to muslims this is one of many examples that sound like tales whipped up by Mohammeds imagination or from borrowed stories off heretical Jewish and Christian sects who were in Arabia at the time. There are other biblical stories in the Koran where even names are mixed up or mythical figures appear such as Kaddir.

I can understand the moral of the story which Mohammad Narrates in ‘The Cave’ but it comes over in bad taste. Was that meant to be a metaphor or was he actually saying it happened?
The baby account is taken from a false gospel. You can learn more here. (Scroll down to 3. Story of the Childhood of Jesus.)
 
Thank you, planten 🙂 , but I don’t see where it mentions Joseph either by name or by position (husband). Maybe with the “guardian of Mary” phrase in the last verse, but even that’s a stretch because it seems to be talking about people fighting about who would be the guardian of Mary - and I don’t know who that is - I don’t know of anyone fighting over being Mary’s husband or having such a dispute? :confused:
**Jay53, please rest in peace. mary was a very beautiful beloved young lady, vey pious. She was known as a good lady because she was serving in the temple. Her mother had left her there for good.

Mary did not have any wealth, any relatives, There was no hope of getting married even. People are attracted to worldy matters. Apparantly there was no chance of Mary getting married. In that condition of complete hopelessnes, Allah sent angels to her to inform her that she would be blessed with a blessed son. Most of the prominant ranks of the son were told to Mary.

I am for the moment skipping the part that she said, “How could she have any son when she had never seen a man…” Please see the verse 3:44 again:

[3:44] This is of the tidings of good unseen things which We reveal to thee (O, Muhammad). And thou wast not with them when they cast their arrows, as to which of them should be the guardian of Mary**, nor wast thou with them when they disputed with one another.

Please note that Mary was left in the care (Gaurdianship) of Zakariya a.s. by her mother when Mary was very young. She grew up in the temple to serve God. In the Quran (Verse 3:42) it is stated that Mary was later grown up and she is addressed as a women, the best of all women of the world.

In verse 3:43, she is told to keep up (observe) prayers. That also means she is grown up at that time. Very young children are not told to observe prayers.

According to the Jewish laws, (Perhaps) she could not remain in the temple when her menses started. She had to leave the temple. She had to be handed over to some one. She did not belong to any one. But rather belonged to the temple. So every one had a right to take her hand.

In such a situation, the Quran is describing that there were many suiters, contenders. Many of the men were wishing to take Mary. So matter could not be decided easily. So lots were cast to decide who would take care of Mary.

The name is not mentioned in the Quran. But from here we take up the descriptive of the bible NT that it was Joseph the Carpentar who was the lucky one to take away Mary.

Quran has described the incident in a very brief beautiful way. Please just read the vere 3:44 again. It says that Allah took care of Mary and selected her husband for her. I am sorry, I cannot do more than what I have done now. But if still there is any question in this matter, you may please approach me. Welcome.

The above is for Jakasaki too. But i may prepare separate post for Jakasaki soon.
 
**Jakasaki, please read my post #530 above. I read the wikipedia material. It was good descriptive. I did not find anything there which could be against my narrative about the marriage of mother Mary (Maryam).

If you could kindly let me know what was the wrong part in my post then I could look into it. Anyhow, you are free to believe what you like. But let me know too. Thanks.**
 
Do you my friend have peace with God? Do you know sure that when you die that you will be in heaven with God? Do you want to have a personal relationship with the living God? Through faith in Jesus Christ as your personal Savior these assurances can be yours.

Let Jesus Come Into Your Heart
John 3:16; Eph. 2:8-9.

If you are tired of the load of your sin,
Let Jesus come into your heart;
If you desire a new life to begin,
Let Jesus come into your heart.
Just now, your doubtings give o’er;
Just now, reject Him no more;
Just now, throw open the door;
Let Jesus come into your heart.
If it’s for purity now that you sigh,
Let Jesus come into your heart;
Fountains for cleansing are flowing nearby,
Let Jesus come into your heart.
Just now, your doubtings give o’er;
Just now, reject Him no more;
Just now, throw open the door;
Let Jesus come into your heart.
If there’s a tempest your voice cannot still,
Let Jesus come into your heart;
If there’s a void this world never can fill,
Let Jesus come into your heart.
Just now, your doubtings give o’er;
Just now, reject Him no more;
Just now, throw open the door;
Let Jesus come into your heart.
If you would join the glad songs of the blest,
Let Jesus come into your heart;
If you would enter the mansions of rest,
Let Jesus come into your heart.
Just now, your doubtings give o’er;
Just now, reject Him no more;
Just now, throw open the door;
Let Jesus come into your heart.
 
… If you could kindly let me know what was the wrong part in my post #530] then I could look into it.
All of it is completely fabricated … especially the part about Mary’s mother leaving her in the temple “for good.” Where do you get your ideas?
 
All of it is completely fabricated … especially the part about Mary’s mother leaving her in the temple “for good.” Where do you get your ideas?
** The topic is the Quran. That matter is described in the Quran, 3:35 onward and 19:16 onward. Thanks for asking**.
 
Planten, are you Muslim or Ahmadi?
Dear Eucharisted, I could be an Ahmadi and Muslim both at the same time only if I had some patience and good manners. I would not mind being and Ahmadi and a Muslim if the two groups accept me happily. You seem to be some knowledgable person.

But may I also ask you a question? Honestly, Are you a Catholic or a Christian? No bad feelings. Be happy. Enjoy all.
 
Dear Eucharisted, I could be an Ahmadi and Muslim both at the same time only if I had some patience and good manners. I would not mind being and Ahmadi and a Muslim if the two groups accept me happily. You seem to be some knowledgable person.

But may I also ask you a question? Honestly, Are you a Catholic or a Christian? No bad feelings. Be happy. Enjoy all.
Your question is not relevant to the discussion because Ahmadiyya Islam is condemned as not Islamic by mainstream Islam, while Catholicism is not similarly condemned by mainstream Christianity.
 
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