Raise taxes (Archbishop Flynn)

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HagiaSophia said:
“The Remedy for poverty is not in the material resources of the truth, but in the moral resources of the poor. These, which are lulled and deadened by money-gifts, can be raised and strengthened only by personal influence, sympathy, charity. Money gifts save the poor man who gets them, but give longer life to pauperism in the country.”
Lord Acton
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Amen!

If the bishops are REALLY concerned for the poor, let them show it. Let them lead the way, and open more Catholic schools. Let them get out and work to raise money to support those schools, and provide scholarships to poor children.

Until they do that, all their actions are so much posturing, all their social pronouncements are so much hot air.
 
HagiaSophia said:
“The Remedy for poverty is not in the material resources of the truth, but in the moral resources of the poor. These, which are lulled and deadened by money-gifts, can be raised and strengthened only by personal influence, sympathy, charity. Money gifts save the poor man who gets them, but give longer life to pauperism in the country.”
Lord Acton
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Hence, Catholic Charities is part of the problem.
 
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katherine2:
Hence, Catholic Charities is part of the problem.
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Yes – the failure to translate the Catholic charitable mission into good schools, with scholarships for the poor, and the failure to promote pro-growth economic strategies is indeed part of the problem.
 
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katherine2:
Hence, Catholic Charities is part of the problem.
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Many Catholics in the past decade have become very critical of Catholic Charities for a variety of reasons.
 
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HagiaSophia:
Many Catholics in the past decade have become very critical of Catholic Charities for a variety of reasons.
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I think the problem is not Catholic Charities, but rather the failure of the Catholic Church (read: The American Bishops) to come up with a comprehensive plan to deal with the problems facing us.

Scattering money around isn’t the answer.

Running shelters and soup kitchens isn’t the answer. These are only stop-gap measures, and the time is long since passed that we should have had more effective measures in place.

More and better Catholic schools is part of the answer. Pro-growth policies and measures are part of the answer. Standing firmly for moral values is critical.

Where are the bishops?
 
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Catholic2003:
Why does it matter? Nobody seems to be listening to them anyway.
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That may be because many of our bishops have nothing to say.

The status of leadership in the American Church is lower than ever before.
 
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HagiaSophia:
Many Catholics in the past decade have become very critical of Catholic Charities for a variety of reasons.
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Read some of the posts here. Some Catholics in the past decade have become very critical of Catholic Charities, Catholic bishops, Catholic priests, the Catholic Pope for a variety of reasons. (Assisi Conference, lack of Tridentine Mass, letting children of gays go to Catholic schools, etc.)
 
I fear that all the people on this thread who criticise everything and everyone probably wern’t listening to the Gospel for the 4th Sunday of year “A”. It was the Beatitudes, lesson of the day:

Don’t criticise others, do it yourself!!
 
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Norwich:
I fear that all the people on this thread who criticise everything and everyone probably wern’t listening to the Gospel for the 4th Sunday of year “A”. It was the Beatitudes, lesson of the day:

Don’t criticise others, do it yourself!!
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I wonder if the bishops are reading this – because that’s a good homily addressed to them.

Do it yourself – raise money, expand Catholic schools. Commit the Church to DO something.
 
norwich its is good to listen to the gospel in the 4th sunday of year a, while it will come after the easter season this year all should pay head also to the gospel in the 6th week ordinary time in year a. which by the way has always been my favorite.
 
The government should eliminate capital gains tax, cut corporate tax to 5%, eliminate state and federal taxes and incorporate a sales tax instead. The government had become addicted to its free money for too long.
 
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Peacemonger:
The government should eliminate capital gains tax, cut corporate tax to 5%, eliminate state and federal taxes and incorporate a sales tax instead. The government had become addicted to its free money for too long.
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They forget that to many taxes start trouble,huh;) So far they get about 42% of our income:eek: According to a special on the discovery channel:nope: That doesn’t help if you don’t make much money:crying: God bless
 
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Lisa4Catholics:
They forget that to many taxes start trouble,huh;) So far they get about 42% of our income:eek: According to a special on the discovery channel:nope: That doesn’t help if you don’t make much money:crying: God bless
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No one not making much money pays 42% of their income in taxes.
 
Per Catholic2003’s request, I’m responding to our discussion from this thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=35254&page=2

post 121.

I assume you have read the pastoral letter. You are correct. It does mention the “moral dimension” of public policy. The document uses the term “moral” on frequent occasions. I believe it is an irresponsible use of the term. Not one specific moral wrong is identified. To be honest, this document reads more like it was written by the DNC than by a group of Bishops, I’m sorry
to say.

Abortion, euthanasia, human cloning, embryonic stem-cell research, and homosexual unions are identifiable moral wrongs that we are called to oppose as Catholics - the Magisterium of the Church has written several documents that mandate this. This has nothing to do with the Republican party. This is just the teaching of the Church.

As I said in my previous posts, both the Code of Canon Law and the Catechism of the Catholic Church require that the Bishops be in communion with the College of Bishops and the Church Magisterium AND be teaching on faith or morals in order for their teaching to be held to with religous assent by the Catholic faithful.

I believe the document does not fall into this category on either account.
  1. In Communion

    A) In order to be in communion with the Magisterium, there must be a teaching by the Magisterium to be in communion with. The pastoral letter makes no references to any magisterial documents or any Church documents at all, aside from a few verses of Sacred Scripture. My guess is that there is no document they could site that would support their teaching. I don’t know of any that would.

    B) I believe parts of the pastoral letter are contrary to
    Magisterial teaching.

    In the very first paragraph, it implies that to not
    grant someone special benefit is immoral. The Church
    teaches that is is immoral for and indivdual to purposefully
    neglect someone in need but it does not teach that it
    is immoral for a large group to not plan ahead for the event
    that someone they don’t know may need benefit. This
    obfuscates the term “moral”.

    Under #2, paragraph 5, the letter implies Catholics fufill their
    moral obligations as stated in Mathew 25 and
    1 John 3 by paying taxes. This is contrary to Church
    teaching. We are responsible for our souls and we are to
    make decisions to use our time and/or money to help those in
    need. We do not fufill that obligation by voting for a tax
    increase and hoping the needy get taken care of - we have no
    way of knowing that will happen.

    The last sentence under #2, paragarph 5 teaches that “the
    government is a means to do together what we cannot
    accomplish on our own”. The Church teaches that the Church
    is this means, not the government. By replacing “Church”
    with “Government”, the Bishops hint at Socialism being the
    correct policy and socialism has been strongly condemned
    by the Church in multiple encyclicals.
  2. Teaching on Faith or Morals

    There is not one specific mention of a moral wrong that is
    to be corrected. There is mention of many generalities
    but nothing you can point to and say “that is wrong because
    it does harm to a specific person”. It simply doesn’t give
    enough information to show harm is being done to a specific
    person due to an action taken by another/same person. That
    is what is required to show to judge morality.

    They are not proposing to teach any doctrine of the faith.
In conclusion, due to the failure to be a teaching on faith or morals AND to be a teaching in communion with the Magisterium, it is not required to be adhered to with religious assent by the faithful.
 
Thank you, Brad, for such a thorough analysis.

It is disheartening to see the USCCB and other sub-groups of bishops spend so much time tinkering with tax and social welfare policy. There are so many larger cultural issues that should be addressed with force and vigor. Furthermore, many of the policies advocated by the USCCB have unintended consequences that greatly undermine our society, welfare being the most obvious example.

It’s also amazing to me to hear our democrat friends on this board defend keeping legal an evil such as abortion because “there are better ways to reduce abortions, such as changing people’s hearts so they won’t seek abortions” and simultaneously advocating higher taxes because that’s “the only way the poor will be cared for”.
 
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katherine2:
No one not making much money pays 42% of their income in taxes.
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But some people do and some people pay more than that! You think that’s just?
 
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StJeanneDArc:
Thank you, Brad, for such a thorough analysis.

It is disheartening to see the USCCB and other sub-groups of bishops spend so much time tinkering with tax and social welfare policy. There are so many larger cultural issues that should be addressed with force and vigor. Furthermore, many of the policies advocated by the USCCB have unintended consequences that greatly undermine our society, welfare being the most obvious example.

It’s also amazing to me to hear our democrat friends on this board defend keeping legal an evil such as abortion because “there are better ways to reduce abortions, such as changing people’s hearts so they won’t seek abortions” and simultaneously advocating higher taxes because that’s “the only way the poor will be cared for”.
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It is disheartening at times. The sooner the faithful realize it is up to them for Church reform, the better.

You’d think if illegality actually encouraged more murders (of born persons) then they would make murder legal. Not only are such arguments disheartening. They are completely illogical.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by katherine2
No one not making much money pays 42% of their income in taxes.
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StJeanneDArc:
But some people do and some people pay more than that! You think that’s just?
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Well, if you are now saying the previous statement is a lie, let us explore why some people post mistruths to advnace the secular conservative agenda, then we can move to your question.
 
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