Rand Paul: Without change, GOP will "not win again in my lifetime"

[ishii]

Again, this Catholic is not a one issue voter. I look at the totality of the person and their platform, what they stand for and the like. I vote Democrat like most Catholics do. BTW: The majority of Catholics cast their ballots for President Obama this past election - about 52% or so according to a Pew Poll. Exit polling of self-identified Catholics said that they felt like President Obama is more empathetic.
They did so in both elections. So I’m not alone. While I don’t agree with abortion, I’m not going to let that one issue to prevent me from voting for a politician that is pro-choice. I’m willing to look at all the issues and make an objective decision. If a republican ever comes along that is for the little guy, and fair wages, health insurance for all, compassion for the least among us, then I may vote in that direction. But, by the looks at the current field, that’s a long way off. BTW: our sitting Vice President is a faithful Catholic.

More talking points.

Abortion is not just another issue. You shouldn’t downplay the killing of a million unborn, nor should you defend the president who fights to keep it legal. You say you’re for the little guy - just not the little guy (or gal) in the womb? Your posts don’t really add up. Most Catholic posters here who either vote Democrat or sympathize with Democrats or are liberal come up with all kinds of complex reasons why they don’t want to vote for the GOP. Most do NOT say they like Obama. They know how pro-abortion he is. Even if they agree with some of his policies, they generally don’t just post generic talking points that sound like they were copied and pasted from a campaign website.

 

[DoGodsBidding]

So based on your criteria for choosing a presidential candidate,you go for the one the seems more empathetic,talks a good game,that’s it,because in case you haven’t noticed,Obama has failed miserably on all counts.He is decidedly the worst president to ever occupy the WH.I pray we can overcome the ruinous policies of this man.:
I won’t even comment on your assessment of Joe Biden

We’ll said. Obama is the worst President in my lifetime, unfortunately. I wouldn’t vote for him for dog catcher.

DGB

 

[DeniseNY]

. If a republican ever comes along that is for the little guy, and fair wages, health insurance for all, compassion for the least among us, then I may vote in that direction…

What, specifically has Obama and the democrats done to address any of those issues? No stump speeches, no talking points, specifics please.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Again, this Catholic is not a one issue voter. I look at the totality of the person and their platform, what they stand for and the like. I vote Democrat like most Catholics do. BTW: The majority of Catholics cast their ballots for President Obama this past election - about 52% or so according to a Pew Poll. Exit polling of self-identified Catholics said that they felt like President Obama is more empathetic. They did so in both elections. So I’m not alone. While I don’t agree with abortion, I’m not going to let that one issue to prevent me from voting for a politician that is pro-choice. I’m willing to look at all the issues and make an objective decision. If a republican ever comes along that is for the little guy, and fair wages, health insurance for all, compassion for the least among us, then I may vote in that direction. But, by the looks at the current field, that’s a long way off. BTW: our sitting Vice President is a faithful Catholic.

Actually, in the 2012 election, the majority of white Catholics OT vote for Obama. The difference was made by Hispanic voters. Obama’s Hispanic approval rating has plummeted since, so it’s doubtful he would have majority Catholic support any more.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Actually, in the 2012 election, the majority of white Catholics OT vote for Obama. The difference was made by Hispanic voters. Obama’s Hispanic approval rating has plummeted since, so it’s doubtful he would have majority Catholic support any more.

Hmmm. Poor typing.

In 2012 the majority of white Catholics voted for Romney by a fair margin. The difference was made by Hispanic voters, among whom Obama’s popularity has dropped since then.

Even so, it’s shameful that any Catholics voted for Obama, and it is a poor commentary on their level of knowledge or catechesis, or both.

 

[Geist]

I despise the war-mongering that occured during GW Bush’s years (I actually came out against going to war in Afghanistan, and very much against Iraq - which was never a just war). I despise Obama’s extreme partnership with PP (I refuse to use the whole name of that organization, by the way, as the full name of PP is very much Newspeak).

My I ask why Dubyas war-mongering bothered you but not Obamas? Several new fronts have started under his watch; Congress saved us from action in Syria he was aggressively pushing.

 

[seaton2005]

So based on your criteria for choosing a presidential candidate,you go for the one the seems more empathetic,talks a good game,that’s it,because in case you haven’t noticed,Obama has failed miserably on all counts.He is decidedly the worst president to ever occupy the WH.I pray we can overcome the ruinous policies of this man.:
I won’t even comment on your assessment of Joe Biden

Those are you words.

 

[ishii]

Those are you words.

I would like to hear your words - defending the record of Obama from a Catholic perspective. Not just with regard to abortion but also with regard to what he is forcing Catholic institutions to do against their consciences - HHS mandate, etc. How do you think his policies stack up to the Catholic principle of solidarity?

Ishii

 

[mary_bobo]

Again, this Catholic is not a one issue voter. I look at the totality of the person and their platform, what they stand for and the like. I vote Democrat like most Catholics do. BTW: The majority of Catholics cast their ballots for President Obama this past election - about 52% or so according to a Pew Poll. Exit polling of self-identified Catholics said that they felt like President Obama is more empathetic. They did so in both elections. So I’m not alone. While I don’t agree with abortion, I’m not going to let that one issue to prevent me from voting for a politician that is pro-choice. I’m willing to look at all the issues and make an objective decision. If a republican ever comes along that is for the little guy, and fair wages, health insurance for all, compassion for the least among us, then I may vote in that direction. But, by the looks at the current field, that’s a long way off. BTW: our sitting Vice President is a faithful Catholic.

Oh, my goodness. Where to start. A presidential candidates platform comes from a platform committee and says all kinds of things. They are seldom adhered to. And to say that Obama is the only person who cares for the “little guy” is to have bought into flowery rhetoric with absolutely no positive results. More people are unemployed, more people are without insurance and the deficit has been added to significantly.

It’s easy to say health care for all, but what we have been handed is a mess. This country could have provided for those who do not have insurance far cheaper than what we have. Seems to me that ought to be a priority in light of the fact that this country is broke.

And the VPis a faithful Catholic? I guess your definition of faithful is different from mine.

 

[meltzerboy]

Oh, my goodness. Where to start. A presidential candidates platform comes from a platform committee and says all kinds of things. They are seldom adhered to. And to say that Obama is the only person who cares for the “little guy” is to have bought into flowery rhetoric with absolutely no positive results. More people are unemployed, more people are without insurance and the deficit has been added to significantly.

It’s easy to say health care for all, but what we have been handed is a mess. This country could have provided for those who do not have insurance far cheaper than what we have. Seems to me that ought to be a priority in light of the fact that this country is broke.

And the VPis a faithful Catholic? I guess your definition of faithful is different from mine.

While for some, namely those who had no previous healthcare plan because they were suffering from preexisting conditions or for other reasons, Obamacare appears to be an improvement, for others it may very well not be affordable, as a friend of mine who lost his previous healthcare policy informed me. But the question I have is what do the Republicans propose as their own positive solution, besides privatization (which would have been disastrous a few years ago) and austerity budget cuts to social programs? I don’t believe theirs is a winnable policy that will entice many swing voters, including Independents and weak Democrats, in Presidential elections. IOW, they cannot simply complain about the tax-and-spend Democrats without offering viable solutions to fix the country’s problems and still expect to win back the White House. I don’t think the GOP is doomed, however; they just need to come up with some innovative ideas that the public will think plausible on issues such as jobs, healthcare, immigration, education, and so on, rather than worrying so much about the liberal media and the secularism of the Democrat party.

 

[KimberlyCat]

I sometimes wonder if Rand Paul understands the Constitution.

 

[DeniseNY]

I sometimes wonder if Rand Paul understands the Constitution.

Really? I wonder the same about POTUS and the majority of the Congress all the time.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Really? I wonder the same about POTUS and the majority of the Congress all the time.

This!

 

[FollowChrist34]

Again, this Catholic is not a one issue voter. I look at the totality of the person and their platform, what they stand for and the like. I vote Democrat like most Catholics do. BTW: The majority of Catholics cast their ballots for President Obama this past election - about 52% or so according to a Pew Poll. Exit polling of self-identified Catholics said that they felt like President Obama is more empathetic. They did so in both elections. So I’m not alone. While I don’t agree with abortion, I’m not going to let that one issue to prevent me from voting for a politician that is pro-choice. I’m willing to look at all the issues and make an objective decision. If a republican ever comes along that is for the little guy, and fair wages, health insurance for all, compassion for the least among us, then I may vote in that direction. But, by the looks at the current field, that’s a long way off. BTW: our sitting Vice President is a faithful Catholic.

I agree that Democrats traditionally look out for the little guy and that Republicans tend to defend big business interests. But I think that is changing. More and more really wealthy people are Democrat and the lower and lower middle classes tend to be “tea party”. The culture war is affecting how people vote more than their pocketbook. The Democrats are dreaming - I don’t think we can afford the European style of entitlement government in a country this size. It will destroy us all and I don’t think that was the founders’ intention. On the other hand, we do need to regulate the free market - it’s naïve to think that, left to its own devices, it will regulate itself. We need to ensure the very basic government protections for the poor - the bishops say that all the time. I don’t think the Republicans would completely strip down government, just reduce its size, which is a good thing.

On abortion (I voted for Obama which I admit I sorely regret) - my thinking was this: I believe is abortion is murder. The woman who bears and leaves her baby with its umbilical cord still attached in a dumpster or in a motel somewhere is no different from the woman who has an abortion. In fact, at least the baby in the dumpster still has a shot at life, assuming someone finds him or her in time. The woman and man who create and destroy a child will answer to God for that act of murder. They won’t answer to me. Any more than Charles Manson or the Boston Marathon bombers answer to me. Do I want to overturn Roe v. Wade? Yes. Would Mitt Romney have done that? No. Did Bush? Did the Supreme Court? This is an ongoing cultural battle. (that I think we may be starting to win)

What surprised me was how anti-Christian and specifically anti-Catholic Obama turned out to be (call me naïve but I thought he was a good Christian man). Through the HHS mandate, the government is dismantling Catholic institutions. The government is suing Catholics for practicing their faith. I also didn’t foresee the gay marriage thing coming. Religious liberty is under attack in this country in a way that hasn’t been seen since the Puritans whipped the Quakers down the street. The fundamental religious protection granted us in the First Amendment in the Constitution is being taken away. This is the stuff of Robespierre and the French Revolution (“tyranny of equality”) - and it is a call to action. We have to get these people out of office to protect the integrity of our political system. Vote Republican.

 

[JimG]

I agree that Democrats traditionally look out for the little guy and that Republicans tend to defend big business interests. But I think that is changing. More and more really wealthy people are Democrat and the lower and lower middle classes tend to be “tea party”. The culture war is affecting how people vote more than their pocketbook. The Democrats are dreaming - I don’t think we can afford the European style of entitlement government in a country this size. It will destroy us all and I don’t think that was the founders’ intention. On the other hand, we do need to regulate the free market - it’s naïve to think that, left to its own devices, it will regulate itself. We need to ensure the very basic government protections for the poor - the bishops say that all the time. I don’t think the Republicans would completely strip down government, just reduce its size, which is a good thing.

On abortion (I voted for Obama which I admit I sorely regret) - my thinking was this: I believe is abortion is murder. The woman who bears and leaves her baby with its umbilical cord still attached in a dumpster or in a motel somewhere is no different from the woman who has an abortion. In fact, at least the baby in the dumpster still has a shot at life, assuming someone finds him or her in time. The woman and man who create and destroy a child will answer to God for that act of murder. They won’t answer to me. Any more than Charles Manson or the Boston Marathon bombers answer to me. Do I want to overturn Roe v. Wade? Yes. Would Mitt Romney have done that? No. Did Bush? Did the Supreme Court? This is an ongoing cultural battle. (that I think we may be starting to win)

What surprised me was how anti-Christian and specifically anti-Catholic Obama turned out to be (call me naïve but I thought he was a good Christian man). Through the HHS mandate, the government is dismantling Catholic institutions. The government is suing Catholics for practicing their faith. I also didn’t foresee the gay marriage thing coming. Religious liberty is under attack in this country in a way that hasn’t been seen since the Puritans whipped the Quakers down the street. ** The fundamental religious protection granted us in the First Amendment in the Constitution is being taken away. This is the stuff of Robespierre and the French Revolution (“tyranny of equality”) - and it is a call to action. We have to get these people out of office to protect the integrity of our political system.** Vote Republican.

The bolded part caught my attention. I do think the attack on religious liberty is quite serious, and most people have not particularly noticed because religion may not be important to them. But loss of religious liberty–a fundamental right–will lead to loss of other liberties as well.

 

[mary_bobo]

While for some, namely those who had no previous healthcare plan because they were suffering from preexisting conditions or for other reasons, Obamacare appears to be an improvement, for others it may very well not be affordable, as a friend of mine who lost his previous healthcare policy informed me. But the question I have is what do the Republicans propose as their own positive solution, besides privatization (which would have been disastrous a few years ago) and austerity budget cuts to social programs? I don’t believe theirs is a winnable policy that will entice many swing voters, including Independents and weak Democrats, in Presidential elections. IOW, they cannot simply complain about the tax-and-spend Democrats without offering viable solutions to fix the country’s problems and still expect to win back the White House. I don’t think the GOP is doomed, however; they just need to come up with some innovative ideas that the public will think plausible on issues such as jobs, healthcare, immigration, education, and so on, rather than worrying so much about the liberal media and the secularism of the Democrat party.

I don’t disagree with you. I think in the past the GOP has offered ideas to improve the situation, but often these are not reported by the MSM. All the issues you mention are important, but how can the GOPexplain their ideas when they are not reported by the press and constantly called “the party of NO” by the administration and the press. And I am not sure how you inform those who would not know the truth if it hit them in the face. They are’t going to believe anything they hear a Republican say, if, indeed, they hear it at all.

All I know for sure is that what we have been doing is not working and the country keeps sinking deeper into a hole both financially and morally.

 

[ProVobis]

All I know for sure is that what we have been doing is not working and the country keeps sinking deeper into a hole both financially and morally.

That’s always a sure bet.

 

[ishii]

I agree that Democrats traditionally look out for the little guy and that Republicans tend to defend big business interests. But I think that is changing. More and more really wealthy people are Democrat and the lower and lower middle classes tend to be “tea party”. The culture war is affecting how people vote more than their pocketbook. The Democrats are dreaming - I don’t think we can afford the European style of entitlement government in a country this size. It will destroy us all and I don’t think that was the founders’ intention. On the other hand, we do need to regulate the free market - it’s naïve to think that, left to its own devices, it will regulate itself. We need to ensure the very basic government protections for the poor - the bishops say that all the time. I don’t think the Republicans would completely strip down government, just reduce its size, which is a good thing.

On abortion (I voted for Obama which I admit I sorely regret) - my thinking was this: I believe is abortion is murder. The woman who bears and leaves her baby with its umbilical cord still attached in a dumpster or in a motel somewhere is no different from the woman who has an abortion. In fact, at least the baby in the dumpster still has a shot at life, assuming someone finds him or her in time. The woman and man who create and destroy a child will answer to God for that act of murder. They won’t answer to me. Any more than Charles Manson or the Boston Marathon bombers answer to me. Do I want to overturn Roe v. Wade? Yes. Would Mitt Romney have done that? No. Did Bush? Did the Supreme Court? This is an ongoing cultural battle. (that I think we may be starting to win)

What surprised me was how anti-Christian and specifically anti-Catholic Obama turned out to be (call me naïve but I thought he was a good Christian man). Through the HHS mandate, the government is dismantling Catholic institutions. The government is suing Catholics for practicing their faith. I also didn’t foresee the gay marriage thing coming. Religious liberty is under attack in this country in a way that hasn’t been seen since the Puritans whipped the Quakers down the street. The fundamental religious protection granted us in the First Amendment in the Constitution is being taken away. This is the stuff of Robespierre and the French Revolution (“tyranny of equality”) - and it is a call to action. We have to get these people out of office to protect the integrity of our political system. Vote Republican.

While I don’t agree with all of your post, I think your last paragraph sums up the reasons why no Catholic should remotely justify voting for the Democrat party/Obama/Hillary now. It is the Democrat party which is leading the attack on religious liberty. Liberal Democrat catholics believe that is an overreaction. I wonder what it would take for the diehard Democrat catholics to finally vote for Republicans (or atleast not vote for Democrats)? Forced gay marriage in Catholic churches? Penalties on priests who refuse to perform gay marriages? Penalties on businesses? Support for infanticide? (oh wait, the Democrat party already supports infanticide). Hard to imagine anything waking up the hardcore Democrat catholics, or waking up the lukewarm ones who voted for Obama in such large numbers.

Ishii

 

[ishii]

While for some, namely those who had no previous healthcare plan because they were suffering from preexisting conditions or for other reasons, Obamacare appears to be an improvement, for others it may very well not be affordable, as a friend of mine who lost his previous healthcare policy informed me. But the question I have is what do the Republicans propose as their own positive solution, besides privatization (which would have been disastrous a few years ago) and austerity budget cuts to social programs? I don’t believe theirs is a winnable policy that will entice many swing voters, including Independents and weak Democrats, in Presidential elections. IOW, they cannot simply complain about the tax-and-spend Democrats without offering viable solutions to fix the country’s problems and still expect to win back the White House. I don’t think the GOP is doomed, however; they just need to come up with some innovative ideas that the public will think plausible on issues such as jobs, healthcare, immigration, education, and so on, rather than worrying so much about the liberal media and the secularism of the Democrat party.

I agree to a point. The GOP does not have to accept the Democrat premise that all solutions to our problems must have a federal solution. When the Republicans accept that premise they play into the Democrats’ hand because the best they can do is “Democrat lite.” How can you compete for votes with a party (Democrat party) which promises so much to so many groups of people? The Republicans have proposed ideas to reform healthcare - including competition across state lines, legal/tort reforms, etc. (I don’t want to get in a debate on healthcare, but there have been Republican ideas to reform healthcare).

The Republicans are at a natural disadvantage when competing with the idea that the government exists not to guarantee our pursuit of happiness, but to guarantee cradle to grave welfare. (cf: “the life of Julia” ad by Obama campaign). Unfortunately, what we are witnessing today is the realization of the warning by Alexis de Tocqueville - “the American republic will endure until the congress realizes it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” I am not hopeful about our future.

Ishii

 

[Skadi]

While for some, namely those who had no previous healthcare plan because they were suffering from preexisting conditions or for other reasons, Obamacare appears to be an improvement, for others it may very well not be affordable, as a friend of mine who lost his previous healthcare policy informed me. But the question I have is what do the Republicans propose as their own positive solution, besides privatization (which would have been disastrous a few years ago) and austerity budget cuts to social programs? I don’t believe theirs is a winnable policy that will entice many swing voters, including Independents and weak Democrats, in Presidential elections. IOW, they cannot simply complain about the tax-and-spend Democrats without offering viable solutions to fix the country’s problems and still expect to win back the White House. I don’t think the GOP is doomed, however; they just need to come up with some innovative ideas that the public will think plausible on issues such as jobs, healthcare, immigration, education, and so on, rather than worrying so much about the liberal media and the secularism of the Democrat party.

A promise of welfare will alwase apeal to many people more than an increase of freedom. Freedom is hard, welfare is easy. The democrats understand this, and it is how they have pushed this image of republicans as haters of the poor.

The lower class today is traped by a welfare system which pays much more than minimum wage, meaning that many of those on welfare, especialy those without college degrees, would take a serious drop in income by getting a job. In addition the welfare system is extreamly easy to cheat, and attempts to improve and reform the system are sternly opposed by liberals. Why? To turn our nations poor into the largest farm in history, not one of food but of votes. These people are entrapped by the system, and they will vote to protect it. That is why it is the Democratic Party who is the true abusers of the poor, they are not treated as people, but as a commodity. They are votes held hostage by economic manipulation, and noone even knows it is happening.