Raping The Catholic Church:colorado Jumps On The Bandwagon

[manualman]

The league’s argument is not primarily one of “it’s not so bad, they all do it too.” Of course not!

The league is pointing out a clear double standard and demanding equal treatment under the law. If the law is going to be written in such a way that an entire institution is accountable when individuals commit crimes (be they direct crimes or abetting crimes), then why not make the whole school district liable? Why? Because the lawmakers recognize that such a law would place a painful burden on taxpayers/voters. Lawmakers don’t want to do that. But they have no problem at placing such a burden on the people of the church.

Decrying such a double standard in no way argues that the crime is less since others are doing it too.

Penny, your analogy would work better if the TEACHER of the first grade class were caught molesting a student and that student’s folks sued the entire district into bankruptcy such that the remainder of the class gets no education. That’s justice? No, that’s the freeway to anarchy.

 

[Penny_Plain]

manualman:

If the law is going to be written in such a way that an entire institution is accountable when individuals commit crimes (be they direct crimes or abetting crimes), then why not make the whole school district liable?

Um…

That’s what the law says now.

If you do something bad in the scope of your employment, your employer is liable, whether it’s a school district or a private employer.

 

[bones_IV]

Nohome:

I disagree. Jesus says I am with you always, to the end of the age.” Matt 28:20 He does not qualify that we need priests.

I don’t know if this is the end times, but there are MANY worse times in the history of the Church.

Nohome

I’m sorry you don’t except the word of God word for word.

 

[TPJCatholic]

Nohome,

The Eucharist is Christ! Jesus told us that we do not have life in us if we do not eat His Body and drink His Blood–Jesus said that. The term for “life” refers to eternal life. Without Priests we cannot have the Eucharist, we also cannot have any of the sacraments and without the sacrament of confession, we would not have the normal means of forgiveness, we would be lost in the sea hoping our contrition was perfect. You are correct, Jesus said He would be with us until the end of the age, and He kept His promise by giving us His Body and Blood in the Eucharist. No Eucharist, no Christ.

There have been more violent times for the Church, no doubt about that. Yet, when it comes to the faith there has never been a more trying time then now. Think about it:

• Priests abusing kids on scales that sicken us.
• Bishops enabling Priests to do the abuse.
• Entire parishes are closing because of the abuse scandal and the Church in America is being slowly bankrupted, and that has a profound impact on 1 billion Catholics.
• Many Catholics have fallen away from the faith and gone to Protestant and non-Christian faiths and sometimes to no faith.
• Priests have stopped following the teachings of the faith and have become dissenters against Holy Mother Church, ignoring the Pope and the Magisterium.
• False teachings are a a frequent presence in many parishes (homsexuality is fine, women should be Priests, we don’t need to confess to a Priest, etc.).
• Divorce rates among Catholics is frighteningly high.
• Abortion rates among Catholics is also high.
• Contraceptives among Catholics…
• Attendance at Mass is at 20-24%…
• Attendance at Confession has fallen to 5%.
• Only 1/3 of Catholics receiving their First Eucharist go on to be Confirmed.
• Marriage is generally not accepted as a sacrament.
• Catholics marry outside the Church routinely, and then receive communion anyway.
• Catholics receive communion with mortal sin regularly and think they have a right to do so.
• Catholics fornicate regularly and think there is no sin in it.
• Catholics support homosexual marriage and think that there is no sin in gay relationships.
• Catholics think stem cell research is good.

The list, sadly, can go on-and-on…

 

[auppie]

Penny Plain:

I want four things to be remembered, regardless of the current handling of the situations.
Penny Plain:

1. The institutional church’s response to the victims of these crimes was not compassionate.

This could be true.
Penny Plain:

1. What the abusers did was against the laws of man and God.

Of course, and the abuser should be the one punished for it to the extent of the laws of man. God will initiate his own judgment on the abuser.
Penny Plain:

1. The bishops who knew about these crimes did not report the crimes to the secular authorities.

This may be true, but neither did the families of the victims. Where is their responsibility in this? Seems like the parents wanted to push the incident(s) under the rug as much or more than the bishops. How much of the victim’s memory is truly accurate as to what happened? Has the memory been embelished with time? Is it justifiable to current bishops, parishes, etc. to pay for the actions of an individual?
Penny Plain:

1. The institutional church admitted its guilt and began to take steps to address only in response to secular legal proceedings begun by the victims.

Are we so sure about this, or is this what our “unbiased” news reporters are telling us?
Penny Plain:

Assume that one of the roles of Christ’s Church on earth is to model Christ-like behaviour for us poor schulbs in the pews. Is the above how our shepherds command us to address our own failings? It is not.

If issues were addressed in the past that at the time of incident were thought to be proper measures to “cure” the abuser, but those measures failed, why are today’s bishops responsible now?

Let’s ask this question: Should America go after Japan for their bombing of Pearl Harbor for its loss of life, destruction to property etc? Same can be asked in light of Nagasaki & Hiroshima.

 

[bekalc]

One of my second cousins was raped by a Catholic priest. He calls it rape. My mom told me about how he tried to go to the Catholic church and talk about it with the leaders. They wouldn’t even see him. So he sued.

Now, he wants really nothing to do with the Catholic Church. He goes to a Church but well the reject Jesus sacrifice. He was a nice guy but he was really hurt by all of this…

My opinion. So we won’t have Catholic Schools. It sucks but we will rebuild. But you know what perhaps this will be a lesson to the hierarchy, so they will be a lot more careful this time… But I truly think that people need to think about the victims in this. And so many of the victims (like my second cousin. All they wnated the Church to do was well talk to them about it, turn the guy over to the police etc. Acknowledge that this terrible thing happened. Yet, they were treated like the criminals here, and the abusers were the victims…That’s a problem.

 

[auppie]

bekalc,

I’m just curious…how come the mother didn’t report it to the police? It is a criminal matter after all.

I’m also curious why the other parents didn’t report the crimes to the police themselves.

 

[Shoshana]

TPJCatholic:

Nohome,

The Eucharist is Christ! Jesus told us that we do not have life in us if we do not eat His Body and drink His Blood–Jesus said that. The term for “life” refers to eternal life. Without Priests we cannot have the Eucharist, we also cannot have any of the sacraments and without the sacrament of confession, we would not have the normal means of forgiveness, we would be lost in the sea hoping our contrition was perfect. You are correct, Jesus said He would be with us until the end of the age, and He kept His promise by giving us His Body and Blood in the Eucharist. No Eucharist, no Christ.

There have been more violent times for the Church, no doubt about that. Yet, when it comes to the faith there has never been a more trying time then now. Think about it:

• Priests abusing kids on scales that sicken us.
• Bishops enabling Priests to do the abuse.
• Entire parishes are closing because of the abuse scandal and the Church in America is being slowly bankrupted, and that has a profound impact on 1 billion Catholics.
• Many Catholics have fallen away from the faith and gone to Protestant and non-Christian faiths and sometimes to no faith.
• Priests have stopped following the teachings of the faith and have become dissenters against Holy Mother Church, ignoring the Pope and the Magisterium.
• False teachings are a a frequent presence in many parishes (homsexuality is fine, women should be Priests, we don’t need to confess to a Priest, etc.).
• Divorce rates among Catholics is frighteningly high.
• Abortion rates among Catholics is also high.
• Contraceptives among Catholics…
• Attendance at Mass is at 20-24%…
• Attendance at Confession has fallen to 5%.
• Only 1/3 of Catholics receiving their First Eucharist go on to be Confirmed.
• Marriage is generally not accepted as a sacrament.
• Catholics marry outside the Church routinely, and then receive communion anyway.
• Catholics receive communion with mortal sin regularly and think they have a right to do so.
• Catholics fornicate regularly and think there is no sin in it.
• Catholics support homosexual marriage and think that there is no sin in gay relationships.
• Catholics think stem cell research is good.

The list, sadly, can go on-and-on…

If I may be so bold to add that New Age has infiltrated into the Church, teachings, and people. I have discerned that for some time now and was confirmed by just finished reading Fr Groeschel’s book ‘In the Presence of our Lord’. This positive ad nauseum thinking pseudo relitiosity is pervasive within the Church…anyone who talks about sin, redemptive suffering, hell et al is considered a very pathological maniac…

 

[TPJCatholic]

shoshana,

There are many other issues to add to that list. One of the major ones I forgot was the lack of belief in the Eucharist. Only 30% of Catholics believe in the Real Presence.

There has been a massive pulling away from the real faith…many, many millions.

 

[bones_IV]

Shoshana:

If I may be so bold to add that New Age has infiltrated into the Church, teachings, and people. I have discerned that for some time now and was confirmed by just finished reading Fr Groeschel’s book ‘In the Presence of our Lord’. This positive ad nauseum thinking pseudo relitiosity is pervasive within the Church…anyone who talks about sin, redemptive suffering, hell et al is considered a very pathological maniac…

Another is they think they can be Catholic and Pro-Abortion and support these defiant politicians who are being disobedient to Rome.

 

[Shoshana]

TPJCatholic:

shoshana,

There are many other issues to add to that list. One of the major ones I forgot was the lack of belief in the Eucharist. Only 30% of Catholics believe in the Real Presence.

There has been a massive pulling away from the real faith…many, many millions.

I heard a much number…up in the 70%…we must pray…

 

[Penny_Plain]

auppie:

I’m just curious…how come the mother didn’t report it to the police? It is a criminal matter after all.

I’m also curious why the other parents didn’t report the crimes to the police themselves.

You’re assuming that the parents knew the abuse had occurred. Often, that’s not the case.

Child sex crimes are often very difficult to prove because children (particularly boys) are so ashamed of what’s happened to them that they don’t tell anyone. There are instances I’ve heard of also where abusive priests have told kids that they’d go to hell if they told anyone about what happened.

 

[Shoshana]

This is true Penny…boys do not want to talk. My grandson who was 4-5 at the time was approached by another boy of the same age in their day care and this boy did a number on him (orally). Of course my grandson was fingered at being the culprit because the other one comes from a highly reputable family in the parish. Couldn’t come from them…until the cat was out of the bag. It definitly came from them sadly. Three boys in that family ranging in age from 16 and 13 and 5 were all involved and the last one involved my grandson in the mess. Of course, they blsuhed after accusing my grandson…shame on them. Unfortunately, they hush-hushed it.

But when it happened, the day care centre lady spoke gently with my grandson and he would not speak about it. She was concerned. I talked with him and told him that he can trust me and if the boy or anyone else wants to touch him again to let me know. The boy tried again at the catholic school. I approached the teacher and warned that I wanted my grandson to stay away from that boy. Unfortunetly the boy was also molested more than once while my grandson was only once…sadly, that family needs counselling, for I fear there will be repercussions in the future…

 

[bellesjoy]

Penny Plain:

Um…
That’s what the law says now.
If you do something bad in the scope of your employment, your employer is liable, whether it’s a school district or a private employer.

Um…no! The school superintendent down the street from us knew about a teacher who was sexually abusing kids when my kids were in school. Instead of calling police, he shuffled him a bit and then wrote glowing references for him to get a teaching job in another school district. This has happened with far more frequency in the public schools than in any private school, any church or other organization.

Results? No settlements. No selling of schools or property. No big stories in the papers. No shame for those in positions of authority.

 

[bellesjoy]

NOHOME said: I disagree. Jesus says I am with you always, to the end of the age.” Matt 28:20 He does not qualify that we need priests.

That is not Catholic doctrine.

 

[Nohome]

bellesjoy:

That is not Catholic doctrine.

As a former Catholic, I know full well “Catholic Doctrine”. I gave you a quote from Jesus himself.

The problem I have with a statement like “no Priests, no Jesus” is that it assumes that Jesus somehow depends on us (well, Priests) for his existence. If you believe that Jesus physically rose from the dead, you realize he is here, alive, in the realm of the living. While we depend on Jesus, he by no means depends on us.

He loves us and and wants us to know him, but he doesn’t depend on humans for his existence. No Jesus? No way! One thing I learned in leaving the Cathoic church was that Rome does not hold exclusive rights on salvation. Jesus is alive and available to everyone, with or without Priests.

Nohome

 

[bekalc]

auppie:

bekalc,

I’m just curious…how come the mother didn’t report it to the police? It is a criminal matter after all.

I’m also curious why the other parents didn’t report the crimes to the police themselves.

Cousin Alan is an adult now. In that day in age you don’t talk about those things. his parents didn’t know I don’t think.

 

[TPJCatholic]

Shoshana,

Only 30% believe in the Real Presence, which means 70% do not.

Also, let us not forget that Christianity is close to dead in nearly all of Europe and is dying fast in Canada as well.

 

[bones_IV]

Nohome:

As a former Catholic, I know full well “Catholic Doctrine”. I gave you a quote from Jesus himself.

The problem I have with a statement like “no Priests, no Jesus” is that it assumes that Jesus somehow depends on us (well, Priests) for his existence. If you believe that Jesus physically rose from the dead, you realize he is here, alive, in the realm of the living. While we depend on Jesus, he by no means depends on us.

He loves us and and wants us to know him, but he doesn’t depend on humans for his existence. No Jesus? No way! One thing I learned in leaving the Cathoic church was that Rome does not hold exclusive rights on salvation. Jesus is alive and available to everyone, with or without Priests.

Nohome

Once again, you overlook the simple fact that Jesus established the priesthood. The priesthood is a reflection of nature. Somebody has to represent Jesus. That’s why the priest acts in persona, in the name of Christ. The priest alone represents Christ even when he doesn’t live after His example. Each priest is Christ’s vicar on earth. If you say that we don’t need priests, then what’s the point in going to Church? A symbolic Eurcharist just won’t do it. That’s why Jesus gave us his body and blood under the appearance of bread and wine. God works primarily through the sacraments. And what better way to be healed then recieving the body and blood of Jesus Christ Himself and in this way we become spiritual semites. Because our souls are semitic. To say we don’t need priests and sacraments is against the very nature of God. God is not limited to priests obviously.

 

[TPJCatholic]

Nohome,

I am saddened to hear you have left Holy Mother Church, the one truly safe place of refuge in this lost world. My prayers are that you will one day come back home, yet until that day May the Lord Bless you with His Grace and Love always.

Jesus told us that He would be with us until the end of the age. He also told us that we have no life in us if we do not eat His Body and Drink His Blood…the only way we can eat His Body and Drink His blood is if Priests consecrate the Bread and Wine, as Jesus did during the Last Supper. No Priests = no Body and no Blood of our Risen Lord, which is equal to no Jesus.

People outside the Church have a chance of salvation, yet they stand far outside the Graces God gave humanity and it becomes increasingly more difficult to receive salvation the farther one gets from Christ.