re: islamic claim to the temple mount

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Isa_Almisry said:
The Sons of Abraham according to the flesh and his Faith have the claim.
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Correct. Modern Isreal is a secular state founded as a home land for Jews lest they be exterminated. It is a polically motivated state, not a religiously motivated one.

I am not anti-zionist, but we should point out that the kingdom of David IS NOT modern Isreal.
 
deborahaz said:
what is the kingdom of david to you then?
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I feel safe saying this, as I know of some Jews who agree with the first part.

God never called them back. Each time they were kicked out, he called them home. That has not occured yet. This Isreal is man-made, not God ordained.

David’s line lead to the Messiah. The Catholic Church is the new Covenant, but because of the nature of a Covenant with God, the old one still exists and still has a role in salvation. At some point, he will once again call them back to Isreal. It has nothing to do with the end of the world. The role of Jerusalem was to be a sign of God’s covenant with them, thus pulling all people to him. The CHurch is the new Jerusalem, pulling all mankind to God.

You have to be careful with replacement theology lest you give the impression that there is no more need for Jews at all.
 
i agree with your take on replacement theology.

i believe the anti-zionists believe that the jewish people are meant to live in the diaspora and do not feel that there needs to be a state of israel.

i believe the state of israel was created for both religious and political reasons and that they have a place where they belonged or that they could escape to in times of persecution.
 
ralphinal said:
I feel safe saying this, as I know of some Jews who agree with the first part(Modern Isreal is a secular state founded as a home land for Jews lest they be exterminated. It is a polically motivated state, not a religiously motivated one.).

God never called them back. Each time they were kicked out, he called them home. That has not occured yet. This Isreal is man-made, not God ordained.
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How can you feel safe saying such things?! The God of Israel is always calling them back. Especially now since Jews from all over the world can come up from their graves(nations) and come back into the land. This is what Ezekiel 36 and 37 spells out. This is not talking about the Jews return from Babylon, for the remnant, that is God’s faithful remnant of Israel longed to come back to Israel to rebuild Jerusalem, etc. And they did. The House of Israel in Ezekiel 36 and 37 are described as dry, dead bones with no life, and most importantly, no spirit within them.

But St.Paul teaches God always has a faithful remnant of Israel. This remnant is now the Church, the bride of Jesus Christ, who now can stand in victory and rest because all promises of Israel are in Jesus Christ. AMEN!

So the House of Israel described in Ezekiel 36 is Israel outside the Church. We know the remnant of Israel(Church) is not a part of this because notice how God tells Israel in **verse 31 and 32-
Then you will remember your evil ways and wicked deeds, and you will loathe yourselves for your sins and detestable practices. I want you to know that I am not doing this for your sake, declares the Sovereign LORD. Be ashamed and disgraced for your conduct, O house of Israel! **

Face it, this Israel in the land today, no matter how political, secular, and man-made it seems to you or the world, is ordained by God. I bet both dispersions of Israel looked man-made.

I would much rather tell a Jew their God is allowing them back into their land(like prophecy foretells will happen) then saying God is not. By telling them not to bother going back into the land and that the land is “Palestine”, is aiding them in their unbelief.

The Jews today are called out of all nations, in their disbelief, to come back into the land for one purpose only, to repent and turn back to God the way he wants to be known, that is by his only Son, the Jews Messiah, Jesus Christ. We know from prophecy this is the ultimate outcome of the Jews coming back into the land! So the Church right now is in a wonderful and unique time in Her history, where Her eschalogical brethern, the Jews are back in the land and still coming!!! What wonderful works for the Lord he has laid out for us! Let us be faithful and preach Jesus Christ and him crucified!

For the Temple Mount and Christs sacrifice on Calvary are both connected! There is NO Islamic claim to that Temple Mount!
 
i agree. replacement theology gives the impression that judaism is no longer a valid religion or that the covenant is no longer valid.

i also see cons, but we know that there are many out there that strongly believe in replacement theology.

i simply suggested that he research both sides to be objective and fair and form his opinion - which i think he has formed anyway.
 
**Hello
What a way to begin and end a post, both ideas are contrary to the bible. By the way, in the NT, Matthew writes that even Heaven called the land “Israel”.
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I took from the Bible didn’t I :rolleyes:

Yeah, but who wrote the book of Matthew? Still know one can tell me 🤷

So, God loves Israel so much that yall think they are still the chosen people? Get real, how can they? They are still disobeying God! Plus they refuse Jesus, the trinity, etc.! They think you are dogs! (goyims they say~a derogatory word for yall!) and yall stick to them and deny your own for the love of them? I think yall need to rethink about the loving God you so claim He is because if this is how they think of the world (other than their own), God is not a just god.

americanrevert**
 
can you explain the difference between the sunni muslims and the shi’a muslims?
 
deborahaz said:
i agree. replacement theology gives the impression that judaism is no longer a valid religion or that the covenant is no longer valid.
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That’s just it! Judaism ISN’T a valid religion and the old covenant ISN’T valid any longer. Judaism ceased to be a true religion when it rejected Jesus Christ, and the only way a Jew can be saved is through the new and everlasting covenant. There is no other name under heaven given among men, other than Jesus Christ, whereby man (Gentile and Jew alike) can be saved.
 
**Hello Deborahaz and good mornin, 🙂
can you explain the difference between the sunni muslims and the shi’a muslims?
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okies, in brief 😃

Shia’s well, I do not want to offend but if any are here they might say I am incorrect. But I will state what is factual inshaAllah (God willing).

Okies, First of all, if one studies the religion, you will find that in Islam, there will be/are 73 sects. There is only one true way and that is those who follow the Quran and Sunnah.

The Shia’s actually are the ones that gave the “sunni” name. True muslims do not identify with this title for in Islam, those who are on the correct way say they are trying to follow the Quran and Sunnah and the seleh assalah…the 1st 3 generations after the passing of Mohammad (sws)~they are the best of generations as quoted in sahih ahadith.

The title sunni is however a way to distinguish against the shi’ee people.

The shi’ee, they according to the correct message of Islam, have changed many things, have done many things that the Prophet (sws) never did or say…example the “athan” (call to prayer) they changed the words (added to it). {In Islam, if anyone adds anything to the religion or deletes anything from the religion it is NOT ACCEPTED. 🙂 } It is associated with “might as well be taking a seat in Hellfire” in the sahihaan (correct, authenticated ahadith). Simply on account of what Allah has said in His Last Message that “…He completed His religion…”. To add or delete would suggest that Allah is incapable and lied.

They believe in different things as well and take the cousin of Mohammad (sws) even over him. God forbid. They beat themselves for the death of the Prophet’s (sws) grandson’s…this indirectly is saying they are displeased with Allah’s will. They condemn many of the companions of Mohammad (say) say bad things about them and hate them…which this is a major major difference and is totally unacceptable.

There are many distinctive differences between the shi’ee and the true followers of Allah and Mohammad (sws).

The facts speak for themselves.

americanrevert**
 
deborahaz said:
i have to admit that i am still a little confused about the history of the middle east and why there are so many problems between israel and the surrounding arab countries. in the old testament, israel is the promised land given to the hebrew people. the city of jerusalem is mentioned many times in the old and new testament. why do the muslims insist that this land is theirs and the jewish people do not belong there? if this is posted in the wrong section of the forum, can someone please move it to the appropriate section. thanks.
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They will keep fighting till the end of the days, but thanks God that Christianity taught me this:
(John 18:36):
“Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place.””

After reading that, I really don’t care anymore about any earthy land.
 
**
he was incapable and lied until Muhammad was born
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.

who?
Shias and Sunni accuse each others of immoral teachings/heresies because each have a different set of tradition supporting their claims of Ali’s legitimacy or Abu Bakr’s…and they both existed at the same time and both claim their traditions are from Muhammad so Shis for example still practice the temporary marriage taught by muhammad
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.

Shi’sm was not around during the time of Mohammad (sws) and Ali, his cousin was one of the strongest believers in Mohammad’s teachings and Allah’s Message. 🙂 So, you cannot claim that the shi’ee’s were around “NO PROOF”. and the temporary marriage was forbidden if you read the history of the when and why’s. Is that too much to ask for someone who insists on saying what they have no knowledge of?

americanrevert
**
 
inJESUS said:
Shias and Sunni accuse each others of immoral teachings/heresies because each have a different set of tradition supporting their claims of Ali’s legitimacy or Abu Bakr’s…and they both existed at the same time and both claim their traditions are from Muhammad so Shis for example still practice the temporary marriage taught by muhammad.
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You’re totally right.
👍
 
Lev23 said:
How can you feel safe saying such things?! The God of Israel is always calling them back. Especially now since Jews from all over the world can come up from their graves(nations) and come back into the land. This is what Ezekiel 36 and 37 spells out. This is not talking about the Jews return from Babylon, for the remnant, that is God’s faithful remnant of Israel longed to come back to Israel to rebuild Jerusalem, etc. And they did. The House of Israel in Ezekiel 36 and 37 are described as dry, dead bones with no life, and most importantly, no spirit within them.

But St.Paul teaches God always has a faithful remnant of Israel. This remnant is now the Church, the bride of Jesus Christ, who now can stand in victory and rest because all promises of Israel are in Jesus Christ. AMEN!

So the House of Israel described in Ezekiel 36 is Israel outside the Church. We know the remnant of Israel(Church) is not a part of this because notice how God tells Israel in **verse 31 and 32-
Then you will remember your evil ways and wicked deeds, and you will loathe yourselves for your sins and detestable practices. I want you to know that I am not doing this for your sake, declares the Sovereign LORD. Be ashamed and disgraced for your conduct, O house of Israel! **

Face it, this Israel in the land today, no matter how political, secular, and man-made it seems to you or the world, is ordained by God. I bet both dispersions of Israel looked man-made.

I would much rather tell a Jew their God is allowing them back into their land(like prophecy foretells will happen) then saying God is not. By telling them not to bother going back into the land and that the land is “Palestine”, is aiding them in their unbelief.

The Jews today are called out of all nations, in their disbelief, to come back into the land for one purpose only, to repent and turn back to God the way he wants to be known, that is by his only Son, the Jews Messiah, Jesus Christ. We know from prophecy this is the ultimate outcome of the Jews coming back into the land! So the Church right now is in a wonderful and unique time in Her history, where Her eschalogical brethern, the Jews are back in the land and still coming!!! What wonderful works for the Lord he has laid out for us! Let us be faithful and preach Jesus Christ and him crucified!

For the Temple Mount and Christs sacrifice on Calvary are both connected! There is NO Islamic claim to that Temple Mount!
Click to expand...
So who was God’s prophet calling them back this time, the United States, Great Britton, or the UNited Nations? Was Golda Mier themodern Moses?

Man ended this dispersion early. God will use this for good, and as. Man created the West’s best ally against violent Islam in Isreal. God has used it for good.

How can I say that God did not call them back? Because you have Jews who follow the practices and do not even beleive in God. That is one way. This is something that would not have been allowed 2,000 years ago.

Besides, I am one who said that Muslims have no claim on the land.
 
Psalter said:
That’s just it! Judaism ISN’T a valid religion and the old covenant ISN’T valid any longer. Judaism ceased to be a true religion when it rejected Jesus Christ, and the only way a Jew can be saved is through the new and everlasting covenant. There is no other name under heaven given among men, other than Jesus Christ, whereby man (Gentile and Jew alike) can be saved.
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CHeck Paul on that. The Jewish role in salvation is not complete.

The nature of a Covenant with God is that it does not end until all of it is complete. It lasts through failure to perform, unlike a contract. Paul teaches that until the number of Gentiles is fulfilled, the Jews are still the parent branch. At that time, we will have the second comming.
 
thanks for the explanation about the difference between sunni and shi’a.

so i guess those differences cause problems among muslims in the middle east who are from the two groups is that correct?

there are more sunnis than shi’a?

are iraq and iran the two main countries who are shi’a and most of the other countries are sunni?

what about in indonesia and chechnya and pakistan? which sect do they follow in other parts of the world?
 
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