Reading Scripture together as Christians

  • Thread starter Thread starter Reformed
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Reformed said:
Michael,

Here is another verse to wrestle with in regards to sanctification being monergistic.

Colossians 1:29

For this I toil, struggling with all his energy that he powerfully works within me.
Click to expand...
Here is another verse that inidicates there in sanctification there is cooperation with the Holy Spirit:

Romans 8:12-13

** 12So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh–
13for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. **

The Christian is empowered by the Holy Spirit to put to death the deeds of the body and be sanctified. Every time you avoid sin and do what is right, Reformed, you are making a conscious choice to conform your life to the will of God. Both of us know that being Christian does not mean you will never sin again. The Westminster Confession states:

**III. Nevertheless they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevalancy of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their perseverance, fall into grievous sins; and for a time continue therein: whereby they incur God’s displeasure, and grieve his Holy Spirit; come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts; have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded; hurt and prevalancy others, and bring temporal judgments upon themselves. **

And yet we also know that God gives Christians sufficient grace to overcome temptation:

1 Corinthians 10:13

13No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.

So despite the fact that Christians are given sufficient grace to endure temptation, they still sin. Why? It’s a choice that they make. And when we do what is right, it is also a choice and we progress in our sanctification. In other words, cooperation with the Holy Spirit is involved. And the following statement by a Calvinist from an article in monergism.com states the following:

Regeneration was a momentary monergistic act of quickening the spiritually dead. As such, it was God’s work alone. Sanctification, however, is in one sense synergistic - it is an ongoing cooperative process in which regenerate persons, alive to God and freed from sin’s dominion (Rom. 6:11, 14-18), are required to exert themselves in sustained obedience. God’s method of sanctification is neither activism (self-reliant activity) nor apathy (God-reliant passivity), but God-dependent effort (2 Cor. 7:1; Phil. 3:10-14; Heb. 12:14). Knowing that without Christ’s enabling we can do nothing, morally speaking, as we should, and that he is ready to strengthen us for all that we have to do (Phil. 4:13), we “stay put” (remain, abide) in Christ, asking for his help constantly - and we receive it (Col. 1:11; 1 Tim. 1:12; 2 Tim. 1:7; 2:1).

monergism.com/sanctification_the_christian_g.php

🤷 These are not my words.

God Bless,
Michael
 
Reformed said:
It seem you agree that Paul writes very similar and conssitent in all his letters. I think it is always profitable to go through the Scriptures togther as Christians. After-all, the Scriptures point to Jesus Christ!

John 5:39

You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,
Click to expand...
102 Through all the words of Sacred Scripture, God speaks only one single Word, his one Utterance in whom he expresses himself completely:64

You recall that one and the same Word of God extends throughout Scripture, that it is one and the same Utterance that resounds in the mouths of all the sacred writers, since he who was in the beginning God with God has no need of separate syllables; for he is not subject to time.65

103 For this reason, the Church has always venerated the Scriptures as she venerates the Lord’s Body. She never ceases to present to the faithful the bread of life, taken from the one table of God’s Word and Christ’s Body.66
 
1 Corinthians
Chapter 1
1
Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2
to the church of God that is in Corinth, to you who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be holy, with all those everywhere who call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours.
3
Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
4
I give thanks to my God always on your account for the grace of God bestowed on you in Christ Jesus,
5
that in him you were enriched in every way, with all discourse and all knowledge,
6
as the testimony to Christ was confirmed among you,
7
so that you are not lacking in any spiritual gift as you wait for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
8
He will keep you firm to the end, irreproachable on the day of our Lord Jesus (Christ).
9
God is faithful, and by him you were called to fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
10
I urge you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose.
11
For it has been reported to me about you, my brothers, by Chloe’s people, that there are rivalries among you.
12
I mean that each of you is saying, “I belong to Paul,” or “I belong to Apollos,” or “I belong to Cephas,” or “I belong to Christ.”
13
6 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
14
I give thanks (to God) that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius,
15
so that no one can say you were baptized in my name.
16
(I baptized the household of Stephanas also; beyond that I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.)
17
For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with the wisdom of human eloquence, so that the cross of Christ might not be emptied of its meaning.
18
The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
19
For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the learning of the learned I will set aside.”
20
Where is the wise one? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made the wisdom of the world foolish?
21
For since in the wisdom of God the world did not come to know God through wisdom, it was the will of God through the foolishness of the proclamation to save those who have faith.
22
For Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom,
23
but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,
24
but to those who are called, Jews and Greeks alike, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
25
For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.
26
Consider your own calling, brothers. Not many of you were wise by human standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth.
27
Rather, God chose the foolish of the world to shame the wise, and God chose the weak of the world to shame the strong,
28
and God chose the lowly and despised of the world, those who count for nothing, to reduce to nothing those who are something,
29
so that no human being might boast before God.
30
It is due to him that you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God, as well as righteousness, sanctification, and redemption,
31
so that, as it is written, “Whoever boasts, should boast in the Lord.”
 
1 Corinthians
Chapter 2
1
When I came to you, brothers, proclaiming the mystery of God, I did not come with sublimity of words or of wisdom.
2
For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
3
I came to you in weakness and fear and much trembling,
4
and my message and my proclamation were not with persuasive (words of) wisdom, but with a demonstration of spirit and power,
5
so that your faith might rest not on human wisdom but on the power of God.
6
Yet we do speak a wisdom to those who are mature, but not a wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age who are passing away.
7
Rather, we speak God’s wisdom, mysterious, hidden, which God predetermined before the ages for our glory,
8
and which none of the rulers of this age knew; for if they had known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9
But as it is written: “What eye has not seen, and ear has not heard, and what has not entered the human heart, what God has prepared for those who love him,”
10
this God has revealed to us through the Spirit.For the Spirit scrutinizes everything, even the depths of God.
11
Among human beings, who knows what pertains to a person except the spirit of the person that is within? Similarly, no one knows what pertains to God except the Spirit of God.
12
We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit that is from God, so that we may understand the things freely given us by God.
13
And we speak about them not with words taught by human wisdom, but with words taught by the Spirit, describing spiritual realities in spiritual terms.
14
Now the natural person does not accept what pertains to the Spirit of God, for to him it is foolishness, and he cannot understand it, because it is judged spiritually.
15
The spiritual person, however, can judge everything but is not subject to judgment by anyone.
16
For “who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to counsel him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
 
mikeledes said:
Here is another verse that inidicates there in sanctification there is cooperation with the Holy Spirit:

Romans 8:12-13

** 12So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh–
13for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit **you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

The Christian is empowered by the Holy Spirit to put to death the deeds of the body and be sanctified. Every time you avoid sin and do what is right, Reformed, you are making a conscious choice to conform your life to the will of God. Both of us know that being Christian does not mean you will never sin again. The Westminster Confession states:

III. Nevertheless they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevalancy of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their perseverance, fall into grievous sins; and for a time continue therein: whereby they incur God’s displeasure, and grieve his Holy Spirit; come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts; have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded; hurt and prevalancy others, and bring temporal judgments upon themselves.

And yet we also know that God gives Christians sufficient grace to overcome temptation:

1 Corinthians 10:13

13No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.

So despite the fact that Christians are given sufficient grace to endure temptation, they still sin. Why? It’s a choice that they make. And when we do what is right, it is also a choice and we progress in our sanctification. In other words, cooperation with the Holy Spirit is involved. And the following statement by a Calvinist from an article in monergism.com states the following:

Regeneration was a momentary monergistic act of quickening the spiritually dead. As such, it was God’s work alone. Sanctification, however, is in one sense synergistic - it is an ongoing cooperative process in which regenerate persons, alive to God and freed from sin’s dominion (Rom. 6:11, 14-18), are required to exert themselves in sustained obedience. God’s method of sanctification is neither activism (self-reliant activity) nor apathy (God-reliant passivity), but God-dependent effort (2 Cor. 7:1; Phil. 3:10-14; Heb. 12:14). Knowing that without Christ’s enabling we can do nothing, morally speaking, as we should, and that he is ready to strengthen us for all that we have to do (Phil. 4:13), we “stay put” (remain, abide) in Christ, asking for his help constantly - and we receive it (Col. 1:11; 1 Tim. 1:12; 2 Tim. 1:7; 2:1).

monergism.com/sanctification_the_christian_g.php

🤷 These are not my words.

God Bless,
Michael
Click to expand...
Hi Michael,

Let’s focus on the Scriptures together instead of debating if Calvninists believe that sanctification is monergistic or synergestic, okay? If you want to debate that issue, maybe you should start another thread on the topic. Within the Reformed circles, there are broad views on many different topics. Heck, there is a sub-group who broke from mainstream Reformed thought (Westminster Confession) with the nickname of “Catholic Calvinism” or hyper-Covenantalism. They practice both padeo baptism and padeo communion. I’m okay with the padeo baptism part of it. 🙂
 
Reformed said:
Hi Michael,

Let’s focus on the Scriptures together instead of debating if Calvninists believe that sanctification is monergistic or synergestic, okay? If you want to debate that issue, maybe you should start another thread on the topic. Within the Reformed circles, there are broad views on many different topics. Heck, there is a sub-group who broke from mainstream Reformed thought (Westminster Confession) with the nickname of “Catholic Calvinism” or hyper-Covenantalism. They practice both padeo baptism and padeo communion. I’m okay with the padeo baptism part of it. 🙂
Click to expand...
Hi Reformed! I know that not every Calvinist speaks for all Calvinists. There are predobaptists and credobaptists and there are Covenant theologians and dispensationalists. But I believe there is one consistent Calvinist teaching on sanctification and most of the stuff I’ve quoted, including that last quote which explicitly identified sanctification as being cooperative, comes from monergism.com, a website you have recommended and which I believe teaches mainstream Calvinist doctrine.

If we are going to study Scriptures, then we must have a mutual understanding of the perspectives we bring into this discussion. No one comes into a discussion with a blank slate. Everyone comes in with preconceived notions, ideas, and beliefs. So we cannot have a discussion on the Scriptures without ever addressing them. And if we are to have a discussion, that also inevitably means that we will have to challenge them. Sanctification is in the Bible and we have to understand whether it is monergistic or synergistic.

God Bless,
Michael
 
mikeledes said:
Hi Reformed! I know that not every Calvinist speaks for all Calvinists. There are predobaptists and credobaptists and there are Covenant theologians and dispensationalists. But I believe there is one consistent Calvinist teaching on sanctification and most of the stuff I’ve quoted, including that last quote which explicitly identified sanctification as being cooperative, comes from monergism.com, a website you have recommended and which I believe teaches mainstream Calvinist doctrine.

If we are going to study Scriptures, then we must have a mutual understanding of the perspectives we bring into this discussion. No one comes into a discussion with a blank slate. Everyone comes in with preconceived notions, ideas, and beliefs. So we cannot have a discussion on the Scriptures without ever addressing them. And if we are to have a discussion, that also inevitably means that we will have to challenge them. Sanctification is in the Bible and we have to understand whether it is monergistic or synergistic.

God Bless,
Michael
Click to expand...
I think you would be burnned at the stake in Reformed circles to say that Reformed believers can be a dispensationalist. I too love John MacArthur. I’ve seen wars within those who embrace TULIP but yet remain dispensational with those who are fully Reformed. It is quite a process to go from mainstream contemporary Christianity to Reformed. I don’t consider myself staunch reformed, nor do I have a desire to defend Calvinism (whatever that means?). Being a Christian is the most important thing to me. If it pleased God for me to live out my life as a Catholic, I would. But, I am actually convinced through the Scirptures to take that fork in the road away from Rome. I don’t mind discussing sanctification as being monergistic or synergistic within Calvinism on another thread. I still have a Calvary Chapel mentality in regards to going through the Scriptures without making it too intellectual. Could we just go through 1 Corinthians together as Chrisitans who know in part, and discuss monergism on antother thread…please. 😉 On a side note, I don’t even worship at a Reformed Church…although the pastor is quite Reformed in his theology. Within Westminster West Seminary, there is much room to believe differently on many subject. However, you cannot believe in dispensational at Westminster West Seminary. You can always drive up north to the Masters seminary.
 
Reformed said:
I think you would be burnned at the stake in Reformed circles to say that Reformed believers can be a dispensationalist. I too love John MacArthur. I’ve seen wars within those who embrace TULIP but yet remain dispensational with those who are fully Reformed. It is quite a process to go from mainstream contemporary Christianity to Reformed. I don’t consider myself staunch reformed, nor do I have a desire to defend Calvinism (whatever that means?). Being a Christian is the most important thing to me. If it pleased God for me to live out my life as a Catholic, I would. But, I am actually convinced through the Scirptures to take that fork in the road away from Rome. I don’t mind discussing sanctification as being monergistic or synergistic within Calvinism on another thread. I still have a Calvary Chapel mentality in regards to going through the Scriptures without making it too intellectual. Could we just go through 1 Corinthians together as Chrisitans who know in part, and discuss monergism on antother thread…please. 😉 On a side note, I don’t even worship at a Reformed Church…although the pastor is quite Reformed in his theology. Within Westminster West Seminary, there is much room to believe differently on many subject. However, you cannot believe in dispensational at Westminster West Seminary. You can always drive up north to the Masters seminary.
Click to expand...
:eek: Burned? Is being Calvinist and a dispensatinalist mutually exclusive?

Sure, we can discuss 1 Corinthians. But when we touch on certain verses, this issue will certainly resurface.

Thanks,
Michael
 
ryanoneil said:
1 Corinthians
Chapter 1
8
He will keep you firm to the end, irreproachable on the day of our Lord Jesus (Christ).
9
God is faithful, and by him you were called to fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
10
I urge you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose.
11
For it has been reported to me about you, my brothers, by Chloe’s people, that there are rivalries among you.
12
I mean that each of you is saying, “I belong to Paul,” or “I belong to Apollos,” or “I belong to Cephas,” or “I belong to Christ.”
13
6 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
14
I give thanks (to God) that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius,
15
so that no one can say you were baptized in my name.
16
(I baptized the household of Stephanas also; beyond that I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.)
17
For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with the wisdom of human eloquence, so that the cross of Christ might not be emptied of its meaning.
18
The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
19
For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the learning of the learned I will set aside.”
20
Where is the wise one? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made the wisdom of the world foolish?
21
For since in the wisdom of God the world did not come to know God through wisdom, it was the will of God through the foolishness of the proclamation to save those who have faith.
22
For Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom,
23
but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,
24
but to those who are called, Jews and Greeks alike, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
25
For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.
26
Consider your own calling, brothers. Not many of you were wise by human standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth.
27
Rather, God chose the foolish of the world to shame the wise, and God chose the weak of the world to shame the strong,
28
and God chose the lowly and despised of the world, those who count for nothing, to reduce to nothing those who are something,
29
so that no human being might boast before God.
30
It is due to him that you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God, as well as righteousness, sanctification, and redemption,
31
so that, as it is written, “Whoever boasts, should boast in the Lord.”
Click to expand...
Okay, we are starting the 2nd letter of Paul. I will start by saying Paul is again obsessed with the gospel of God’s grace. He makes a clear distinction between the gospel and baptism. The message of the cross is foolishness and an offense for those who are perishing. The message of the gospel is the power of God for salvation for those who believe. Those who can embrace the biblical gospel have the Spirit of God. Those without the Spirit cannot discern the things of God; therefore the gospel cannot be received in the flesh. The Spirit has to be in the believer before the believer can believe in the gospel of God. God chose the foolish things of the world before the foundation of the world for salvation, redemption, adoption, glory, etc to shame the wise and humble the pride of sinful man. Divine election has a purpose of given God all the glory that He alone deserves… so we can boast in God and not boast in our flesh.

For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with the wisdom of human eloquence, so that the cross of Christ might not be emptied of its meaning.
18
The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God

Consider your own calling, brothers. Not many of you were wise by human standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth.
27
Rather, God chose the foolish of the world to shame the wise, and God chose the weak of the world to shame the strong,
28
and God chose the lowly and despised of the world, those who count for nothing, to reduce to nothing those who are something,
29
so that no human being might boast before God.
30
It is due to him that you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God, as well as righteousness, sanctification, and redemption,
31
so that, as it is written, “Whoever boasts, should boast in the Lord.”

Chapter 2

10
this God has revealed to us through the Spirit.For the Spirit scrutinizes everything, even the depths of God.
11
Among human beings, who knows what pertains to a person except the spirit of the person that is within? Similarly, no one knows what pertains to God except the Spirit of God.
12
We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit that is from God, so that we may understand the things freely given us by God.
13
And we speak about them not with words taught by human wisdom, but with words taught by the Spirit, describing spiritual realities in spiritual terms.
14
Now the natural person does not accept what pertains to the Spirit of God, for to him it is foolishness, and he cannot understand it, because it is judged spiritually.
15
The spiritual person, however, can judge everything but is not subject to judgment by anyone.
16
For “who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to counsel him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
 
Reformed said:
Okay, we are starting the 2nd letter of Paul. I will start by saying Paul is again obsessed with the gospel of God’s grace. He makes a clear distinction between the gospel and baptism. The message of the cross is foolishness and an offense for those who are perishing. The message of the gospel is the power of God for salvation for those who believe. Those who can embrace the biblical gospel have the Spirit of God. Those without the Spirit cannot discern the things of God; therefore the gospel cannot be received in the flesh. -]The Spirit/-] Hearing the Word of Faith -]has to be in the believer/-] before the believer can believe in the gospel of God. Those who hear, then they believe, then they are baptised, then they receive the Spirit.

For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with the wisdom of human eloquence, so that the cross of Christ might not be emptied of its meaning.
18
The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. **For the foolishness of God is wiser than the wisdom of men./**QUOTE]
Click to expand...
 
The Word of God is sharper than a two-edge sword, piercing and dividing and cutting asunder.
 
SimonArizona said:
Reformed;4305682:
Okay, we are starting the 2nd letter of Paul. I will start by saying Paul is again obsessed with the gospel of God’s grace. He makes a clear distinction between the gospel and baptism. The message of the cross is foolishness and an offense for those who are perishing. The message of the gospel is the power of God for salvation for those who believe. Those who can embrace the biblical gospel have the Spirit of God. Those without the Spirit cannot discern the things of God; therefore the gospel cannot be received in the flesh. -]The Spirit/-] Hearing the Word of Faith
Click to expand...
-]has to be in the believer/-] before the believer can believe in the gospel of God. Those who hear, then they believe, then they are baptised, then they receive the Spirit.

For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with the wisdom of human eloquence, so that the cross of Christ might not be emptied of its meaning.
18
The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. **For the foolishness of God is wiser than the wisdom of men./**QUOTE]

LOL…what are you trying to say? Did you understand the last part of 1 Cor 2? We can use John 3, and Romans 8 to understand 1 Cor 2 too.

Wisdom from the Spirit
6 Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom, although it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away. 7 But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But, as it is written,

“What no eye has seen, nor ear heard,
nor the heart of man imagined,
what God has prepared for those who love him”—

10 these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. 13 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. [3]

14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 15 The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. 16 “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

John 3

Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again [2] he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. [3] 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You [4] must be born again.’ 8 The wind [5] blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Romans 8

Life in the Spirit
8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. [1] 2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you [2] free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. 3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, [3] he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. 7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

http://www.hemmy.net/images/animals/dogweirdcostume06.jpg

Celebrate and rejoice on October 31!
Click to expand...
 
SimonArizona said:
How will they believe unless they hear?
Click to expand...
How does the Lord Jesus speak in regards to hearing?

Matthew 11:15

He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

Please read John chapter 6 and see who has ears to hear. In addition, please tell me why Jesus spoke in parables according to the Scriptures. I think 1 Cor chapter 1 talks about election too.
 
Man in his natural state cannot properly repent, believe, or love God. Hence, God must intervene. In order for a person to come to faith, the Holy Spirit must operate in the person first. God must first enlighten a person’s mind and will through antecedent grace in order to enable a person to repent and believe. However, Catholics do not call this regeneration. According to Calvinists, man must first be brought to spiritual life before they can come to faith. However, we believe that while the Holy Spirit operates in a person who has not been regenerated to bring them to faith, this operation is not regeneration. In fact, Jesus explicitly states:

John 5:25

25"Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

Note the order. It is not the alive who hear. It is the dead who hear and those who hear will live. So spiritual life does not precede hearing, hearing precedes spiritual life.

Revelation 3:20

20’Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

Regarding the use of parables, God needed unbelieving Jews to accomplish His purpose (the Crucifixion). 🤷 If the unbelieving Jews came to faith, then who would crucify Jesus? Therefore, God withheld knowledge of the kingdom of God from these until He accomplished His purpose.

God Bless,
Michael
 
Reformed said:
Okay, we are starting the 2nd letter of Paul. I will start by saying Paul is again obsessed with the gospel of God’s grace. He makes a clear distinction between the gospel and baptism.I don’t see Paul making a “clear distinction” between the gospel and baptism.
Paul certainly did baptize, as he himself attests:
I give thanks (to God) that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one can say you were baptized in my name. (I baptized the household of Stephanas also; beyond that I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.)
It appears Paul uses “I give thanks (to God) that I baptized none of you” and “For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel,” in light of v12, "I mean that each of you is saying, “I belong to Paul,” or “I belong to Apollos,” or “I belong to Cephas,” or “I belong to Christ.”
Paul is making clear the focus isn’t who physically baptized you, but through whom grace came to you via baptism: Christ.

I don’t see anything in Ch 1 and 2 that speaks to your understanding of predestination.
Click to expand...
 
mikeledes said:
Man in his natural state cannot properly repent, believe, or love God. Hence, God must intervene. In order for a person to come to faith, the Holy Spirit must operate in the person first. God must first enlighten a person’s mind and will through antecedent grace in order to enable a person to repent and believe. However, Catholics do not call this regeneration. According to Calvinists, man must first be brought to spiritual life before they can come to faith. However, we believe that while the Holy Spirit operates in a person who has not been regenerated to bring them to faith, this operation is not regeneration. In fact, Jesus explicitly states:

John 5:25

**25"Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead **will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

Note the order. It is not the alive who hear. It is the dead who hear and those who hear will live. So spiritual life does not precede hearing, hearing precedes spiritual life.

Revelation 3:20

20’Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

Regarding the use of parables, God needed unbelieving Jews to accomplish His purpose (the Crucifixion). 🤷 If the unbelieving Jews came to faith, then who would crucify Jesus? Therefore, God withheld knowledge of the kingdom of God from these until He accomplished His purpose.

God Bless,
Michael
Click to expand...
**Nice try Michael,

But mongerism rules and synergism drools**.



Ephesians 2:5
even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

Colossians 2:13
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

**Made Alive in Christ **

As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. - Ephesians 2

See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.

For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority. In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.

When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. - Col 2

Now please read this verse in context. This verse is adressed to whom, to believers or the seven churches? I don’t think Jesus is speaking to the unbeliever in this particular verse, do you?

Revelation 3:20

'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top