real presence

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Mickey:
Good try SPOKENWORD. Our flesh counts for nothing. His flesh is food indeed and His blood is drink indeed. That is what is referred to when Jesus says, the words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. You will continue to understand things with a baptist revisionist theology and I will continue to understand things with a 2000 year old sacramental Catholic theology. Once again, please read MarkAnthony’s post #75! Good luck brother, and God Bless you.🙂
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Hi Mickey,No human taught this to me. This is strictly by reading the scriptures and asking the Holy Spirit for understanding.Is the Holy Spirit misguiding me? :confused: God Bless
 
It is not a re “sacrifice” it is the same sacrifice. In the old testament Levitical law in order to atone for ones sins they had to make a peace offering. It consisted of bringing an unblemished lamb to the temple to be slain on the “Alter” by a “Priest” the fatty portions were burnt and offered to God, the priest then took his portion and ate it and he who brought the lamb took the remainder home and consumed it with his household.According to the law the sacrifice “had” to be consumed or there was no peace made with God.Christ came to fulfill the law not abolish it. He is the Lamb without blemish we must according to his comand in John :6 eat his body and drink his blood precisely because it is what the law asks of us in order to be reconciled with God. Jesus would have known very well the Levitical law and how the peace offering had to be made as would have all of his followers which is why they left in such great numbers at that time, because they new he meant they would have to literaly eat his flesh and drink his blood.He makes the sacrifice on our behalf and makes it possible for us to partake of it by instituting the Eucharist before hand for all generations to participate in the offering which is required by the law he came to fullfill.The bread and wine offered by the"Priest" on the “Alter” to God is this same sacrifice made for us on Calvary it “is” His body and it “is” His blood and we must consume it in order to be reconciled to the Father. When Jesus rises from the dead and enters the upper room he says “My Peace be with you” this is the Peace he speeks of the peace offering made on our behalf by the Lamb of God it is more “REAL” than we can fathom and it is a gift to all who would take it.

PEACE be with you all
Paul
 
Dear Brother Spokenword,
The Holy Spirit guides all of us but if we are all guided by the same spirit and we don’t agree where do we turn?There must be some authority to turn to? If you say it is the bible then we need to consider the instrument used to decide that the New Testament was indeed sripture to begin with.The historical fact is that in the year 360 a Church council a Catholic council of Bishops decided on the 27 books we now call the new testsment. If we trust the authority of the scriptures than we trust the authority of the Church.
We all have personal revelations but true christian humility calls us to submit to the Bride of Christ which is his Church. If you believe the sriptures to be the word of God and I’m sure that you do than you must submit to the authority that proclaimed to the world that they were. This is the Holy Catholic Church.
Peace
Paul
 
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SPOKENWORD:
Hi Mickey,Lets see how we make out here on understanding.In verse 62,Jesus says What if you see the son of man ascend to where he was before? I believe Jesus is talking about himself.Correct?63.The spirit gives life. Whose spirit gives Life?.Of course Jesus,He says I am the way,the truth and the LIFE.63.the flesh counts for nothing.Why? Because flesh will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.[1 corinth 15 vs 50] 63 The words I have spoken to you are SPIRIT and LIFE. Jesus is the Word.His SPIRIT now lives in us and it brings us LIFE. 👍 God Bless
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Do you not “see” the transition that occurs in verses 63. Before this Jesus is referring to himself. Then in verse 63 he is not. If Jesus was, he would have said my spirit, or the spirit of the Son of man.

You have read Paul’s discourse on “the” flesh as:
  1. A state of being on the earth outside of God
  2. Carnal desires
  3. A worldly logical perspective
It is this worldly logical perspective that Jesus is addressing. A perspective that is removed from the Church once the Holy Spirit is loosed upon the earth. The Spirit now lives in us and HE brings us life.
 
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MarkAnthonyCozy:
Do you not “see” the transition that occurs in verses 63. Before this Jesus is referring to himself. Then in verse 63 he is not. If Jesus was, he would have said my spirit, or the spirit of the Son of man.

You have read Paul’s discourse on “the” flesh as:
  1. A state of being on the earth outside of God
  2. Carnal desires
  3. A worldly logical perspective
It is this worldly logical perspective that Jesus is addressing. A perspective that is removed from the Church once the Holy Spirit is loosed upon the earth. The Spirit now lives in us and HE brings us life.
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Hi Mark.Of course I have to disagree with you. I dont see it the way you say.I m going to stick with what I said until proven that I am in error. I do agree that the Spirit now lives in us and brings us life. :confused: God Bless
 
Spokenword, your posts remind me of the bumper sticker that says “you’re just jealous because the voices speak to me.” You are very sure of your beliefs and that is a good thing. We need confidence to fight the good fight. You are so sure that your interpretation is the correct one, and we, Catholics, of course are misguided by a church that is of only human creation. You say that no man has taught you what you hold so profoundly to be true. So, is your understanding infallible? And if it is not, then your confidence is based on what is taught to you by man, your own conscience and understanding. Would the Holy Spirit mislead you? That is the quandry for Christians. You have accepted your own understanding because you were “led” by the Holy Spirit to it, we have accepted the understanding of our church because we believe the Holy Spirit has led it from the beginning.Who is right? I had a similar experience to that of MarcAnthonyCozy. Was our being touched by the Spirit any less valid than yours? We can go back and forth but when we rely on our experiences alone, we can be easily fooled. I don’t denigrate in any way that you are happy and secure in your beliefs, I am just saying that the people who died in Jonestown, Guyana and under similar circumstances believed that they too had the true and correct understanding of Scripture.You say that the disciples left but the Apostles remained because they saw things spiritually. That is not exactly right. They had no idea what Jesus was about. They saw things and believed but had questions, doubts and fears, as we all do.They believed that He was going to establish His Kingdom in their lifetimes. It wasn’t until the Holy Spirit descended on Pentecost that they knew their mission. And in case it hasn’t occured to you, the Holy Spirit didn’t descend and reveal all to everyone. The Apostles had to go about teaching the Good News and even had to work out what exactly the Good News was and how to live it. So you see, if it is true that we are all to trust ourselves to understand the Good News, then we would have no need of the Bible, ministers, theologians or even each other for the Holy Spirit would just reveal the same Good News to each of us and we would live happily everafter.
 
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SPOKENWORD:
Hi Mark.Of course I have to disagree with you. I dont see it the way you say.I m going to stick with what I said until proven that I am in error. I do agree that the Spirit now lives in us and brings us life. :confused: God Bless
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You don’t have to do anything except believe the spoken word.

If but for a moment to experience what I have, then you would know. No one would need to call to you, “Know the Lord!” or “Look He is Here!” No more sermons on blessed assurance. Assured in your heart forever you will be.

Those nasty little sins that plague and bind you while you sojourn on this earth just fade away. Unbound your Guardian Angel stands strong at your side.

“…I am the Almighty God: walk before me and be thou perfect.” Gn 17:1 KJV

Most Catholics don’t even understand. It is beyond understanding only in the experiencing.

Do you hunger inside for the truth?

“So I say to you, Ask, and it will be given to you; search and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened for you. For everyone who asks receives, and everyone who searches finds, and for everyone who knocks, the door will be opened.” Lk 11:9-10 NRSV

You are here right know. The cloud of witnesses that surrounds you are ready to pray on your behalf. Take hold of that which Jesus shed very blood for you to receive.
 
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reggie:
Spokenword, your posts remind me of the bumper sticker that says “you’re just jealous because the voices speak to me.” You are very sure of your beliefs and that is a good thing. We need confidence to fight the good fight. You are so sure that your interpretation is the correct one, and we, Catholics, of course are misguided by a church that is of only human creation. You say that no man has taught you what you hold so profoundly to be true. So, is your understanding infallible? And if it is not, then your confidence is based on what is taught to you by man, your own conscience and understanding. Would the Holy Spirit mislead you? That is the quandry for Christians. You have accepted your own understanding because you were “led” by the Holy Spirit to it, we have accepted the understanding of our church because we believe the Holy Spirit has led it from the beginning.Who is right? I had a similar experience to that of MarcAnthonyCozy. Was our being touched by the Spirit any less valid than yours? We can go back and forth but when we rely on our experiences alone, we can be easily fooled. I don’t denigrate in any way that you are happy and secure in your beliefs, I am just saying that the people who died in Jonestown, Guyana and under similar circumstances believed that they too had the true and correct understanding of Scripture.You say that the disciples left but the Apostles remained because they saw things spiritually. That is not exactly right. They had no idea what Jesus was about. They saw things and believed but had questions, doubts and fears, as we all do.They believed that He was going to establish His Kingdom in their lifetimes. It wasn’t until the Holy Spirit descended on Pentecost that they knew their mission. And in case it hasn’t occured to you, the Holy Spirit didn’t descend and reveal all to everyone. The Apostles had to go about teaching the Good News and even had to work out what exactly the Good News was and how to live it. So you see, if it is true that we are all to trust ourselves to understand the Good News, then we would have no need of the Bible, ministers, theologians or even each other for the Holy Spirit would just reveal the same Good News to each of us and we would live happily everafter.
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Hi ,Reggie,I,m in agreement with you about all the apostles,like Peter said to whom shall we go,you have the words of everlasting life.All that is required is to believe. 👍 God Bless
 
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SPOKENWORD:
Hi Mickey,No human taught this to me. This is strictly by reading the scriptures and asking the Holy Spirit for understanding.Is the Holy Spirit misguiding me? :confused: God Bless
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SW–It is not my task to tell you if the Holy Spirit is misguiding you. You are on a journey, and God will guide you to your final destination. But on one of your posts, you claim that the Holy Spirit spoke to your heart as you prayed before the Blessed Sacrament and asked you why were you searching for Me where I am not? (or something along those lines). If you interpreted that to mean that God is not in the Blessed Sacrament, then I am sure that was not the Holy Spirit that spoke to your heart. As you know, the evil one is deceitful and treacherous. Now you may ask: how do I know that it wasn’t the Holy Spirit that spoke to your heart? And I would answer: the Holy Spirit spoke to my heart and the Holy Spirit has guided the Catholic Church for 2000 years. But you will disagree with me. Has the same Holy Spirit conveyed opposite messages to us? Pray, spokenword. Pray diligently. Pray for all your family and friends and ask for guidance on your journey. Pray for me spokenword as I will pray for you. For it is sung in our Divine Liturgy: Let us love one another so that with one mind we may profess–The Father and The Son and The Holy Spirit. The Trinity, one in substance, and undivided.
:blessyou:
 
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SPOKENWORD:
Hi ,Reggie,I,m in agreement with you about all the apostles,like Peter said to whom shall we go,you have the words of everlasting life.All that is required is to believe. 👍 God Bless
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“Master, what must I do to be saved?”…
True or False: Jesus responded, “You don’t have to DO anything…”
 
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Mickey:
SW–It is not my task to tell you if the Holy Spirit is misguiding you. You are on a journey, and God will guide you to your final destination. But on one of your posts, you claim that the Holy Spirit spoke to your heart as you prayed before the Blessed Sacrament and asked you why were you searching for Me where I am not? (or something along those lines). If you interpreted that to mean that God is not in the Blessed Sacrament, then I am sure that was not the Holy Spirit that spoke to your heart. As you know, the evil one is deceitful and treacherous. Now you may ask: how do I know that it wasn’t the Holy Spirit that spoke to your heart? And I would answer: the Holy Spirit spoke to my heart and the Holy Spirit has guided the Catholic Church for 2000 years. But you will disagree with me. Has the same Holy Spirit conveyed opposite messages to us? Pray, spokenword. Pray diligently. Pray for all your family and friends and ask for guidance on your journey. Pray for me spokenword as I will pray for you. For it is sung in our Divine Liturgy: Let us love one another so that with one mind we may profess–The Father and The Son and The Holy Spirit. The Trinity, one in substance, and undivided.
:blessyou:
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Hi Mickey,I like your response, About the Eucharist,maybe it doesnt become active until you eat it? :confused: God Bless
 
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SPOKENWORD:
About the Eucharist,maybe it doesnt become active until you eat it? :confused: God Bless
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That type of sarcasm is not appreciated. It does not come from a good place.😦
 
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Mickey:
That type of sarcasm is not appreciated. It does not come from a good place.😦
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Mickey ,Im sorry I offended you. I was not being sarcastic. 😦 God Bless
 
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WhatIf:
Why do you read The Word of God, when he is living within you?/QUOTE

Oh, man! I was grasping for the right example, among all those “externals” the Holy Spirit has provided “even though Christ lives in us,” and you hit just right one!

It refutes your interesting implication, Spokenword: beliefs and practices which God may or may not be giving to us must pass our own Now Why Would He Do This? test.
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SPOKENWORD:
Hi Mickey,Lets see how we make out here on understanding.In verse 62,Jesus says What if you see the son of man ascend to where he was before? I believe Jesus is talking about himself.Correct?63.The spirit gives life. Whose spirit gives Life?.Of course Jesus,He says I am the way,the truth and the LIFE.63.the flesh counts for nothing.Why? Because flesh will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.[1 corinth 15 vs 50] 63 The words I have spoken to you are SPIRIT and LIFE. Jesus is the Word.His SPIRIT now lives in us and it brings us LIFE. 👍 God Bless
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If you believe that in verse 63 that Jesus is talking about himself then are you claiming that Jesus’ “flesh counts for nothing?”

Are you denying that Jesus rose from the dead and ascended into heaven without his own flesh which “will not inherit the kingdom of heaven?”

I nearly left the Catholic Church based on my own former interpretation of John 6 of which you currently hold.

I remember the turmoil and anxiety, along with the joy, that overcame me when the scales fell from my eyes. All I asked for was to know the truth. How stupid could I have been. Dating a pretty girl, talking about the future. I forged a friendship akin to David and Jonathan with the pastor of the Baptist Church I was attending. It all came crashing down.

My pastor friend and I remain close. I have not told him all that has happened though we meet weekly to pray and study scripture. He knows that I’m attending a Catholic Church and am teaching CCD. He can’t deny that I am saved. I can’t deny that he is. I’ve never met a man with a deeper love for Jesus Christ. We are truly brothers in Christ even though many posting here would deny that that could be possible. Though, in private, we lament with tears the “state” of the other.

I’ve decided to give him two years of my life to just listen. He doesn’t realize how much I’m learning about the Catholic Church from listening to him and reading the books that he loans me! He is transforming me into a Catholic apologist. After two years then I will speak. He is a former Catholic who now hates the Church.

“For the kingdom of God depends not on talk but on power!” 1Cor4:20

I will pray for you SPOKENWORD, as I assume many others are. Sunday, as I take the body, blood, soul, and divinity of my LORD and Savior, Jesus Christ into my own body I will pray that the LORD grants you your true heart’s desire.
 
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MarkAnthonyCozy:
If you believe that in verse 63 that Jesus is talking about himself then are you claiming that Jesus’ “flesh counts for nothing?”

Are you denying that Jesus rose from the dead and ascended into heaven without his own flesh which “will not inherit the kingdom of heaven?”

I nearly left the Catholic Church based on my own former interpretation of John 6 of which you currently hold.

I remember the turmoil and anxiety, along with the joy, that overcame me when the scales fell from my eyes. All I asked for was to know the truth. How stupid could I have been. Dating a pretty girl, talking about the future. I forged a friendship akin to David and Jonathan with the pastor of the Baptist Church I was attending. It all came crashing down.

My pastor friend and I remain close. I have not told him all that has happened though we meet weekly to pray and study scripture. He knows that I’m attending a Catholic Church and am teaching CCD. He can’t deny that I am saved. I can’t deny that he is. I’ve never met a man with a deeper love for Jesus Christ. We are truly brothers in Christ even though many posting here would deny that that could be possible. Though, in private, we lament with tears the “state” of the other.

I’ve decided to give him two years of my life to just listen. He doesn’t realize how much I’m learning about the Catholic Church from listening to him and reading the books that he loans me! He is transforming me into a Catholic apologist. After two years then I will speak. He is a former Catholic who now hates the Church.

“For the kingdom of God depends not on talk but on power!” 1Cor4:20

I will pray for you SPOKENWORD, as I assume many others are. Sunday, as I take the body, blood, soul, and divinity of my LORD and Savior, Jesus Christ into my own body I will pray that the LORD grants you your true heart’s desire.
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Hi Mark, Thank you so much for keeping me in prayer. I love you guys.There is so much concern for each other on this site. Praise God for my brothers and sisters. We are united in Jesus Christ. Let us never forget it. 👍 God Bless
 
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How about the above miracle where the Sacred Host actually turned into cardiac muscle?
Read about it here. therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/lanciano.html

or the recently shot video of a Saced Host exposed and actually on fire without being consumed bu the fire? Similar experience to Moses and the burning bush but this time it is a consecrated Host.
See it here monksofadoration.org/Betania2.html or for a better link dsanford.com/miraclehost.html

Now that you see do you believe?

“For those who believe no miracle is necessary. For those who do not believe no miracle will ever be enough!”
 
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