Rebuttals for same sex marriage PLEASE!

[theCardinalbird]

Sexual attraction is not the same as observation of beauty. Sexual attraction is made with full knowledge of what/who the object of the attraction is and the expectation of the development of the relation.

I’m confused. Are you saying that people choose to be gay or not?

 

[jcrichton]

People choose to follow their “hearts.”

Not so much the “romantic” notion of heart as much as their appetites.

Consider a well-known athlete. He was at the apex of his game. He was married and raking in the dough… but instead of feeling fulfilled he sought after females other than his wife; spending exorbitant amounts of moneys to secure the “services” of certain “particular” female/s… was he attracted to other females and so responded with his heart or was he lusting after other females and his appetite knew no bound?

It is the same for all sexual situations. People don’t get up one day thinking, ‘let me try a latino guy/girl.’ This happens with a turn of events… either through consistent and actively seeking a particular person or through mental exercise (thinking about the proverbial forbidden fruit) which is brought into fruition. Check out what Scriptures tells us about the development of sin:

13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. (James 1)

When a person (heterosexual or homosexual) makes a determination to choose him/herself over God, he/she determines that what he/she chooses is “correct,” regardless of God’s Determination that we must be Holy.

I’m a sinner just as the next person–the difference is that I ‘choose’ not to disobey God and then blame Him for “making me do it!”

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[theCardinalbird]

When a person (heterosexual or homosexual) makes a determination to choose him/herself over God, he/she determines that what he/she chooses is “correct,” regardless of God’s Determination that we must be Holy.

I’m a sinner just as the next person–the difference is that I ‘choose’ not to disobey God and then blame Him for “making me do it!”

I see. So it’s choosing to not follow God and deeming that as correct which is sinful? What happens if I didn’t choose to be attracted to men but I encouraged Homosexual responses (i.e. gay pornography) before I realized that was a sin, and before I truly committed to the faith? I want to live Holy now but I still am affected by this attraction. Am I still sinning?

 

[Benadam]

Here is an absolute fact for you- no one chooses to be gay. It is not possible. I couldn’t chose to find someone I find abhorrent attractive. Could you?

I know this to be untrue. It’s a statement that has become a foundation for alot of assumptions. I know for many, even most with SSA it’s true. But there are many others that were not attracted to their own sex but in a state able to allow it to happen. Our current permissive culture enables openness to experimentation too. Men and women in prison make that choice as well. Some leave prison with SSA. Some leave it at the prison.
Anyway, making that statement as a universal truth leads to other false assumptions that support the political agenda of many SSA folks

 

[jcrichton]

Joe, let’s break it down… here’s what Jesus Taught:

27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[a] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (St. Matthew 5)

So what is Jesus saying? He is saying that we can and are able to commit sin just by thinking of it (the temptation brought into effect even if in the mind).

Before anyone has a conscious thought about God we have our conscience guiding us; as a child when we start to think about doing something “bad” there’s reprehension that takes over… we often learn to put that feeling aside and opt to do as we please… that’s our will versus God’s Will… yet unlit we become conscious of that relationship we sin without knowledge. Does that means that all man has to do is claim/feign/be sincerely ignorant of what God considers sin?

Here’s St. Paul’s take on the inner workings of God’s Justice:

12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) (Romans 2–read from verse 1)

All pornography is wrong since it robs us of our God-given dignity and it promotes sexual activities which are, by their nature, fornication and adultery. Promoting such behavior/acceptance is also a sin because it is actively engaging a countermand to God’s Call to Be Holy.

(Continued)

 

[jcrichton]

Part II

The Beauty of our Relationship with God is that God is not as we are… people often say they forgive and forget… yet, they lie or chose who and what to forgive and forget… God Calls Us to His Intimacy this way:

18 “Come now, let us settle the matter,”
says the Lord.
“Though your sins are like scarlet,
they shall be as white as snow;
though they are red as crimson,
they shall be like wool. (Isaiah 1)
31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, in which you have transgressed; and make yourself a new heart and a new spirit: for why will you die, house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him who dies, says the Lord Yahweh: therefore turn yourselves, and live. (Ezekiel 18–read the whole chapter)

Since you are coming to God seeking to Fellowship with Him, He will not hold your past over your head… when you join the Catholic Church you are trained (adult RCIA) to understand your responsibility in the sight of God; the Sacrament of Baptism rids you of your sins (as Isaiah 1) and Ushers you into the Body of Christ… yet, you have been getting to know God… it is your personal responsibility to accept His Word on Holiness and sin and reject sin (both cited Scriptures) and seek Holiness.

The attraction is the same for me… I see a girl, I am attracted to that girl… but as St. Paul stated:

22 Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than he? All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient. 23 All things are lawful for me, but all things do not edify. (1 Corinthians 10)

So what we do with such attractions would put us on the right path to God or the wrong path away from God.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[simpleas]

I would suggest you speak with a priest in confession regarding your worries over this issue, I think it would help you better than asking such personal questions on a forum.

 

[jcrichton]

…and all you need do is follow hollowood’s romance… when the homosexual thing hit, almost every show had to have a homosexual situation happen… even Sci Fi was not left unaffected as they invented human souls streaming into human “shells” (bodies) and the need for homosexual/heterosexual intercourse, even outside of their own bodies as the means to maintain deep-space mental health!

When we buy into the idea that we must engage as we please… well ‘anything goes’ (well except what God has Determined) is a badge of courage and “spiritualism.”

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Prodigal_Son]

jcrichton, you haven’t made things clear to me, in your last few posts. Let me ask you a very clear question, and I hope you can give a very clear answer…

When I was 11, I saw a magazine image of a good-looking man in a situation of partial nudity. I wanted to look at him more, and this wanting became lust. I am certain that the LUSTING was a decision of my will. But am I morally blameworthy for my desire to look at this man more? This is what is generally called “attraction”. Was this attraction a sin? Was it chosen?

 

[Thorolfr]

Catholicwife32:

I agree with Ben Shapiro (did I spell that right?) that the Church needs to get out of civil marriage contracts entirely. The secular world sees marriage as a social construct that exists because of civil laws. In other words, being married only means that you’ve entered into a civil contract with another person. So, in their mind, there is no objective substantial reality of the married state, only a socially constructed one which we can define. Thus, if people’s lives are being negatively affected by a lack of ability to enter into this civil contract AND no one is hurt by gay marriage, then there is no reason to not have gay marriages. And all arguments are about forcing your religion down non-religious people’s throats.

The problem is that homosexuals are not interested in civil rights; they want the Church to Bless their unions as “right” and “correct” with “God’s Blessings.”

This is the actual reality.

Maran atha!

Angel

Most gay people probably couldn’t care less whether the Church blesses their unions. Why would most of them care?

 

[Catholicwife32]

Most gay people probably couldn’t care less whether the Church blesses their unions. Why would most of them care?

There are gay Catholics who do not wish leave the Church, but rather wish to have their unions recognized as marriages. The pressure is not going to stop.

 

[SuperLuigi]

If it wasn’t such a bad thing, we wouldn’t even be having this conversation. The fact is you have to emotionally and illogically defend homosexuality.

 

[Thorolfr]

Thorolfr:

Most gay people probably couldn’t care less whether the Church blesses their unions. Why would most of them care?

There are gay Catholics who do not wish leave the Church, but rather wish to have their unions recognized as marriages. The pressure is not going to stop.

Are gay Catholics who want their marriages to be blessed an important pressure group inside the Church? They’re probably dwarfed by straight divorced Catholics who want to be able to get remarried with the Church’s blessing. And what about Catholic women who want to be priests? That must be another pressure group. They even have their own website called “Roman Catholic Womenpriests.”

 

[niceatheist]

I don’t defend or deny it. I simply don’t see why you think it’s your business. Your own desire to demonize homosexuality suggests to me you are far too worried about the real and imagined sins of others. Again I point to Matthew 7:5

 

[daverod]

I think I might have an idea.

1 Corinthians 11:20;23-26
“When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord’s supper. 23For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: 24And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come.”

1 Corinthians 11:28-31
“But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. 31For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.”

Maybe Catholics do not want to be partakers of giving spiritual food that might make many weak and sick or fall asleep, (death).

 

[SuperLuigi]

Your own desire to demonize homosexuality suggests to me you are far too worried about the real and imagined sins of others

I don’t have to demonize it. It’s insecurities and short-comings are widely obvious. That’s why it takes such a prosperous, decadent culture to cram it down everyone’s throat and try and make them like it.

This really won’t even last too much longer in Canada. You guys are already talking about making “islamophobia” illegal.

Again I point to Matthew 7:5

In over 7 years and 21,000 posts, you can count the number of times I’ve quoted the Bible on two hands.

Never thought I’d see an atheist use appeal to authority.

 

[daverod]

660 replies on 1 homosexual question??? How the heck can I get to the first couple of posts on this thread???

 

[niceatheist]

Well it’s your Bible. Maybe you should ask why an atheist has to point out that passage to you.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Because he’s cherry-picking quotes to blow with the cultural winds to save face?

 

[niceatheist]

So you’re saying you should concern yourself with the needle in your brother eye? Oh I get it, you only want to read passages in the Bible that allow you to confirm your prejudices