Reconciliation for Police Force Mistakes?

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StudentMI said:
Bolded for emphasis. You also can’t just randomly bring up higher rates of crime among the black community and dismiss it in the rhetorical fashion you did above. The two go hand in hand.
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Oh good grief, yes I can say that abuse of police power is not a single tiny fraction of a bit more OK when the victim has some physical resemblance to one community instead of another!!! Yes, it can be dismissed, because it is utterly irrelevant!!

I think you just said that if I merely belong to a racial group that suffers from higher rates of crime, then I somehow deserve, as part of that group, to have a far lower standard of police conduct aimed towards me. What? That does not even make sense!

Do you think I deserve to be treated worse because I bear a physical resemblance to someone who committed a crime? So…pretty much, if I look like a suspect, I deserve to be treated worse than is allowed if I were already convicted and in prison? It isn’t as if prison guards are allowed to do what that police officer did, and they only deal with people who were actually convicted of crimes.

Stop defending what happened to that man. It is indefensible. It is particularly indefensible to imply he deserved what he got because of his looks.
 
Welshrabbit said:
That’s a pretty big if. Pretty much only retired law enforcement (possibly military personnel) would fit the bill.
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Then do what is possible.

I didn’t want to drag this into it, but it is my understanding that a large proportion (sorry, I don’t have numbers) of policemen are also Freemasons — it’s a big thing in police ranks. Even if you concede that the garden-variety American Freemason is not aware of the the anti-Catholic and anti-Christian core of Freemasonry, there is still the tendency for Freemasons to look out for one another, defend each other’s interests, and not allow their “brothers” to be delivered up to harm or loss.
 
PetraG said:
Stop defending what happened to that man. It is indefensible. It is particularly indefensible to imply he deserved what he got because of his looks.
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Shame on you for saying I do. Shame.
 
Just pointing out the fact that the standard for reasonable use of force in the United States (according to Graham vs. Connor) is whether or not a reasonable officer would use the same amount of physical force as was used in the incident if faced with the same circumstances.

Yeah, not sure what the percentages are but literally every Freemason I know is also a law enforcement officer.
 
StudentMI said:
Shame on you for saying I do. Shame.
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You said:
StudentMI said:
You also can’t just randomly bring up higher rates of crime among the black community and dismiss it in the rhetorical fashion you did above. The two go hand in hand.
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That implies that the standard for police conduct towards blacks hinges on their appearance. If they are deemed to look more like people more likely to commit a crime, then the idea that they deserve to be treated differently can just be dismissed out of hand.

Either the similarity of the man to the appearance of crime suspects is irrelevant or it is not. I say it is not. You say it is relevant. Tell me why there is any “shame” in pointing out the inevitable consequences of your premise.

The truth is, if some guy has a gang tattoo on his forehead–that is, if he appears like a criminal in a way that he caused rather than in a way that he was born with–he still hasn’t given permission to be treated by the police in a way that is not even acceptable for convicted criminals.
 
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Welshrabbit said:
Just pointing out the fact that the standard for reasonable use of force in the United States (according to Graham vs. Connor) is whether or not a reasonable officer would use the same amount of physical force as was used in the incident if faced with the same circumstances.
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No argument there. Granted, Floyd was a big guy (6 foot 6), but there had to be some way to restrain him and keep him from breaking free and fleeing on foot, short of kneeling on his neck for almost nine minutes and killing him. Could his hands and feet not have been bound together behind his back, so that it would have been impossible for him to get away? That’s not fun, but it’s not fatal or even harmful.
 
PetraG said:
That implies that the standard for police conduct towards blacks hinges on their appearance. If they look more like people more likely to commit a crime, then the idea that they deserve to be treated differently can just be dismissed out of hand.

Either the similarity of the man to the appearance of crime suspects is irrelevant or it is not. I say it is not. You say it is relevant. Tell me why there is any “shame” in pointing out the inevitable consequences of your premise.
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Which is not any where near what I said. If you’re going to just reduce statements to a field that fits your ideology I don’t think there’s much point in continuing the discussion. As I said, shame on you.
 
StudentMI said:
Which is not any where near what I said. If you’re going to just reduce statements to a field that fits your ideology I don’t think there’s much point in continuing the discussion. As I said, shame on you.
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OK. You explain what crime rates in the black community have to do with what happened to George Floyd. I say they have nothing to do with it. You say they do. Explain yourself.
 
Don’t get me wrong, I was not commenting whatsoever on the case of poor Mr. Floyd (I pray for the repose of his soul). Only that any type of review board needs to be comprised of people who are intimately familiar with the use of force continuum.

I have not heard of/spoken to /read about any law enforcement officer of any stripe who has said that the actions of the (former) officer who has since been charged were in any way justified. Not saying they aren’t out there and I’m sure someone on this forum will try and dig something up to prove me wrong, but I believe the overwhelming majority of law enforcement officers were appalled at what was done to Mr. Floyd.
 
Show to the BLM and the looters that not all cops are bad and most of them are giving their lifes to save OUR lives, besides in 2016 the same number of black ppl shot by police officers was the same as white ppl in USA.
 
Welshrabbit said:
Don’t get me wrong, I was not commenting whatsoever on the case of poor Mr. Floyd (I pray for the repose of his soul). Only that any type of review board needs to be comprised of people who are intimately familiar with the use of force continuum.

I have not heard of/spoken to /read about any law enforcement officer of any stripe who has said that the actions of the (former) officer who has since been charged were in any way justified. Not saying they aren’t out there and I’m sure someone on this forum will try and dig something up to prove me wrong, but I believe the overwhelming majority of law enforcement officers were appalled at what was done to Mr. Floyd.
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When Floyd said that he couldn’t breathe, the three other officers could have come over, helped Chauvin restrain him in a non-injurious manner, and if there was a fear he would flee on foot, hog-tie him with thick plastic ties. I regret the use of the term “hog-tie” but that’s what it’s called — bind the feet, then bind the hands between the feet, behind the suspect’s back.
 
For sure. That would obviously have been a better approach.
 
These are all already policies in every police department. The only hold up for cameras for all is that they are extremely expensive. The video storage for even a smaller department like mine was hundreds of thousands per year. You would have to get the citizens to agree to a tax increase. That said, I have no problem with wearing a body camera when we finally get them, so long as I’m not required to activate it when on break in my home. So far in virtually every case in which a complaint has been filed against officers in neighboring departments, the body camera has completely vindicated them.
 
jochoa said:
What do you propose, if anything, America/Police do to reconcile?
Do you think your proposal would satisfy the protestors and/or looters?
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I would propose massive gatherings where people and police together call for justice and peace. Building solidarity is the first priority.

Thankfully this has happened in some places. Unhappily, other places have opted for domination rather than solidarity, a decision that is almost certain to keep the cycle of distrust going.
 
Why do police need to do anything? How come everyone is responsible for their own actions (except for rioters, who are somehow justified by systemic oppression), but when the police are involved it becomes collective guilt?
 
I rest my case. That kind of firing, harassing and all out war on anyone that dares break the “blue wall” needs to stop. It’s outrageous behavior on that part of the police force, not on the officer fired.
 
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