Reconciliation for Police Force Mistakes?

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Exactly! That’s my point. But people on the far left want to call Trump a racist, etc and say people who support law & order defend criminal actions of bad cops, etc.
The far left? I dunno. Does he get a pass on racism just because his respect for everyone in the human race not named Donald John Trump is contingent on whether or not they are flattering him?

If so, then sure, I guess he isn’t a racist. He does insult everybody and make rash judgments about everybody and put everyone down who isn’t flattering to him, regardless of race. It is hard to argue with that. (I can’t think of a counter-example; you’re welcome to correct me.) Having said that, he does find ways to insult people by his use of group-based stereotypes.

As you point out, though, not daring to defend the murder of a detained man by a police officer that was committed in public and recorded on videotape doesn’t exactly rate some Medal of Courage in the fight for social justice.

(PS: Yes, Joe Biden’s “then you ain’t black" comment was grossly racist. No, your racial identity is not something you lose by thinking for yourself and registering for a different party than someone else thinks you should. Good grief. Apologize directly to Justice Thomas, Mr. Biden. Actually, just ask George Bush for the phone numbers, because you have a LOT of phone calls to make… inexcusable, but his apology for the comment really did not qualify as an apology.)
 
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If so, then sure, I guess he isn’t a racist. He does insult everybody and make rash judgments about everybody and put everyone down who isn’t flattering to him, regardless of race. It is hard to argue with that. (I can’t think of a counter-example; you’re welcome to correct me.)
Why would I correct you on that? Trump is pretty much a jerk, but he’s a jerk to everyone. He’s an equal opportunity jerk.

I don’t believe he’s a racist or hates Jewish people or all the other crazy things people say about him & people who voted for him over Hillary.

I don’t care if he’s a jerk. I only care about fighting abortion, protecting religious freedom for Catholics, conservative judges, & fighting socialism & communism in America.

In my experience, most politicians are jerks, the only question is how well they hide it.
 
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I’m all for holding police accountable for their actions in these incidents, but I dont know how much of the onus I’d place on police themselves for the reconciliation. Police dont pass the laws we send them to enforce, they dont declare nationwide drugwars, and they don’t sit and decide the court cases regarding our constitutional rights. I’m a big opponent of systemic racism, but by that I mean something we all create/maintain not something we create then only blame police for.

As for specific policies I agree with demilitarization, and also advocate a considerable amount of decriminalization. Decades ago I was fortunate enough to be part of a longitudinal research study where for four years a group of mostly white adolescents through young adults were free to engage in a variety of anti-social behaviors including substance abuse, public intoxication, drunk and disorderly conduct, occaisional public nudity, vandalism, and disturbance of the peace over the course of four years with minimal police intervention. Law enforcement actions were limited to telling people to move along or go home, issuing occaisonal citations, and some drug/alcohol classes. A premium was placed on not endangering the future of the research subjects through unnecessary involvement with the legal system. Years later my fellow subjects, despite having received no significant legal consequences for anything they did, engage in almost none of the criminal behaviors mentioned, and are parents, bosses, doctors, lawyers, politicians, etc. The experience has left me with a strong anti-interventionist/decriminalization bias when it comes to policing.
 
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Why would I correct you on that? Trump is pretty much a jerk, but he’s a jerk to everyone. He’s an equal opportunity jerk.

I don’t believe he’s a racist or hates Jewish people or all the other crazy things people say about him & people who voted for him over Hillary.

But I don’t care if he’s a jerk. I only care about fighting abortion, protecting religious freedom for Catholics, conservative judges, & fighting socialism & communism in America.

In my experience, most politicians are jerks, the only question is how well they hide it.
I consider him to have very racist tendencies because he talks about people in groups, as if he knows what everyone in the group thinks and acts like because of the group they were born into. It is habitual. I should not call him a racist, as if this were something he considers part of his identity himself. I think it is reasonable to reserve the term “racist” for people who openly self-identify with a racist ideology.

Again, though, Joe Biden’s “you ain’t black” comment was a tell, too. That’s a violation of the dignity that each person has as a unique creation of God. It is racism. Joe Biden should understand that no voting bloc exists that is all going to vote for him in order to qualify as a member of the group they identify with. (That even includes Democrats, and we all know it. How could it not apply to an accident of birth such as racial background?)

Let’s just say this: If Trump were to say “if you don’t vote for me, you’re no Republican,” I’d take him to task. He doesn’t get to march in after changing parties four or five times and decide what it means to be a Republican.
 
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were free to engage in a variety of anti-social behaviors including substance abuse, public intoxication, drunk and disorderly conduct, occaisional public nudity, vandalism, and disturbance of the peace over the course of four years with minimal police intervention.
Sounds like quite the party…
 
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phil19034:
Exactly! That’s my point. But people on the far left…
Well ya…and those on the right hated almost every move Obama made.
I’m on the right. I voted for Obama twice.
 
I’m on the right. I voted for Obama twice.
You’d better check your credentials, since I’ve been told that “RINOs” don’t belong to the right. :crazy_face:
(I’m not entirely sure that the Bush family are counted as Republicans any more…)
 
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phil19034:
I’m on the right. I voted for Obama twice.
You’d better check your credentials, since I’ve been told that “RINOs” don’t belong to the right. :crazy_face:
(I’m not entirely sure that the Bush family are counted as Republicans any more…)
I’m no RINO. But I just couldn’t vote for McCann when he picked Sarah as his VP. And I had issues with Romney that I couldn’t get past.

However, I was very unhappy with Obama after his re-election, esp regarding his treatment of Little Sisters of the Poor.

But I will tell you this… I would rather have Obama than Hillary as President, any day of the week. I didn’t vote for Trump in the primary, but I would rather have Trump over Hillary too.
 
I’m no RINO. But I just couldn’t vote for McCann when he picked Sarah as his VP. And I had issues with Romney that I couldn’t get past.

However, I was very unhappy with Obama after his re-election, esp regarding his treatment of Little Sisters of the Poor.

But I will tell you this… I would rather have Obama than Hillary as President, any day of the week. I didn’t vote for Trump in the primary, but I would rather have Trump over Hillary too.
I’m not remotely in a swing state, so I just wrote in a Republican I actually liked. I figure somebody notices the crumbs that nobody got, so I don’t consider it a throw-away vote.

I think a lot of people would have voted for nearly anyone other than Hillary Clinton. If Barack Obama himself wrote someone else in the last time around, it would not surprise me. (Because no, she really is not “likable enough.” Neither is Ted Cruz, though. Maybe both are perfectly fine in person, I can’t know, but that doesn’t mean imagining either one as President doesn’t give me the willies.)

A 2nd inauguration of Donald Trump also gives me the willies. I don’t think I’ll be tuning in next January, no matter what happens. (I’ll just wear my black arm band because the Republicans didn’t get to have a real primary.)
 
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A 2nd inauguration of Donald Trump also gives me the willies. I don’t think I’ll be tuning in next January, no matter what happens. (I’ll just wear my black arm band because the Republicans didn’t get to have a real primary.)
What scares me is who Biden will pick for VP, because he will most likely win.

He’s already declared that someone’s physical appreance is his number one priority.

The only well known female politician in the Democratic party that doesn’t make my skin crawl is Tulsi Gabbard (but Biden isn’t going to pick her)
 
What scares me is who Biden will pick for VP, because he will most likely win.

He’s already declared that someone’s physical appreance is his number one priority.

The only well known female politician in the Democratic party that doesn’t make my skin crawl is Tulsi Gabbard (but Biden isn’t going to pick her)
After John McCain chose Sarah Palin, nothing could surprise me. Joe Biden could choose Oprah Winfrey or Whoopi Goldberg or pretty much anyone else who is technically eligible to serve and I don’t think he could surprise me. (I don’t know his choice would be worse than he would be, were he to be incapacitated or impeached or something. Donald Trump has not gotten me accustomed to having a President whose off-the-cuff remarks can be counted on to produce wincing.)

How many people are technically eligible to become President of the United States? 150 million or so? How did we get these two candidates as the two top choices? It beggar belief. Are there just that many truly qualified people who do not have the level of [insert my not-flattering appraisal of the character flaws required to want grasp for this particular office] to even want to be our President?

I mean: are the truly qualified all elbowed out by those with a breathtaking level of ambition or else put off by the unconscionable demands of the real king-makers?

As to the police, thank goodness so many truly good people are willing to take on such a difficult and thankless job. As the priests are too often smeared by the misdeeds of a very few, so the police. That doesn’t excuse anybody who is hiding the bad actors. I am not saying that there is no place for a sense of outrage or a sense that the need to address these real problems is not the stuff of crisis. I’m not suggesting we forget who the real victims are in the most serious sense. I mean only to recognize that those bad actors both wreak havoc on the lives of those they victimize from their positions of authority and also by association damage the reputations of the majority who have never shirked the duty and self-sacrifice that their position of authority actually demands.
 
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I agree with the sentiment that there isn’t much to reconcile for.

As has been mentioned in the thread, body cams were a very good idea. In many cases we are seeing that the cops were right to act how they did and that the behaviour of the people they were dealing with was, let’s say, far from squeaky clean (not in all cases of course, but many).

I also agree some better training could be done to avoid situations like the most recent one with Derek Chauvin, but I also doubt what he did was police protocol.
 
I also agree some better training could be done to avoid situations like the most recent one with Derek Chauvin, but I also doubt what he did was police protocol.
I’ve read the Israelis trained the MPD,
and a knee on the neck is one of their techniques.
 
The message needs to be told that the police are not out to get black people. The statistics and the facts don’t show a national problem of police out to kill black people.
I think that BLM will not allow their followers to listen to this, and if they do listen, BLM will not allow them to believe it.

My husband pointed out yesterday that during Pres. Trump’s administration, there have only been 10 black men kill by police (not by a knee on the neck, BTW). Unemployment among blacks has been less than anytime in history, and the wages earned by blacks have been the highest in history.

In other words, under Pres. Trump’s watch, things have been really good for black people. (actually, for all people).

But Pres. Trump is hated by Democrats and other ultra-liberal organizations like BLM. These organizations want a heavy-handed government that controls everything, including how people think.

I don’t think that Mr. Floyd was killed in a deliberate plot to undermine the conservatives and Pres. Trump–although it’s tempting to give way to that idea. I do think that BLM has seized the opportunity and has run a super marathon with it, pushing their agenda of total government control.

At our “peaceful” rally in our city yesterday, over and over and OVER again, we heard chilling words to the effect that “EVERYTHING MUST CHANGE.” There were speeches about a total overhaul of our government, our laws, our systems (after all, the problem is “systemic racism”).

Like sheep, the people were cheering along with these speeches, while back at home, my husband and I discussed getting guns, me getting a gun permit card, and both of us signing up for shooting class at a local gun center. We are scared. We trust in God and recognize that this earth is not our permanent home. But we hate to see the end of the United States of America and spend our senior years living under a totalitarian regime that attempts to control every aspect of our lives, including our very thoughts. The “Shelter In Place” policies of the last few months have given us a taste of what our lives could be like if BLM has its way.

Just imagine the teaching of children by teachers ended, replaced with a nationwide online program of teaching/indoctrination with supposedly anti-racist ideals taught by a select group of skilled brainwashers. Do not laugh–this is what happened in Germany during the Nazi regime–children were educated in Nazi ideology and were encouraged to turn their parents in for any subversive thinking. The nation under Hitler created demon children who knew no other way of thinking but Nazism. To this day, some of those children who are still alive (and old!) STILL defend the Germany of their childhood years. (I just finished watching a documentary about this.)

I was hopeful that during the last week, we were getting the impression of overthrow of the government because of the media’s slanted presentations. But seeing it in person in our own city has been a wake-up call for both of us. We are scared and grieved by what we saw and heard last night.
 
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Exercise the the 2nd of the two greatest commandments, to love our neighbor, which would defuse rage.

what solutions do you propose?
What does ‘love your neighbor’ look like, in concrete terms, that would lead the rioters and looters to say: I am now loved. I will stop looting and rioting. ?

I don’t believe this will work because the vast majority of this country was already behaving as good neighbors.

I believe one of two things will stop the rioters and looters:
  1. George Soros and/or the democratic party calls them off, because I believe it’s planned rioting to further their agendas.
  2. Military and police force making them stop.
The reason you and I will not agree on what will stop this rioting and looting is because we don’t agree (apparently) on why they’re really doing it.
 
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