Reduction of violence connected to the production and distribution of drugs

[weller2]

Why not just send American drones to South America to spy on heroin and cocaine smuggling operations.

Because that would solve the problem.

Many people have jobs because this problem exists. It logically follows that solving the problem at its root is not in their own interest.

Sad but true.

 

[TEPO]

But it is available anyway. The fact that it is illegal just makes a lot of not-so-nice people rich.

Let’s face it: drug prohibition has failed to achieve its fundamental goal – reduce availability of drugs.

I’ve seen normal women turn to crack, only to abandon their children and become prostitutes for the rest of their lives. Men leave high paying jobs, abandon their wives and children and turn into thieves. Prison becomes their new destiny.

Drug prohibition should stop punishing US citizens for the crimes of foreign smugglers. We have to take the fight into their yard, beat them down, and seize their land… Just like we do in the Middle East. We’re good at building puppet governments from across the globe, why not do it in our own neighborhood?

Let’s boot these nasty republican and democratic politicians out of our offices and make something that flows in the right direction.

 

[TEPO]

Drugs are the root cause of poverty in the US. Drugs make prostitutes, and murderers.

 

[mikekle]

Someone driving drunk and someone imbibing alcohol in the privacy of his home are two different things. Drunk drivers endanger others, someone drinking a beer in his house does not. Second hand smoke endangers others, smoking in the privacy of one’s own home does not.

Yes, it is morally right to discourage your neighbor from hurting himself but is it morally right to prevent him from hurting himself, especially if doing so imposes costs on other people?

At the same time, a person who ONLY uses a drug in their home is not hurting anyone more than someone who gets drunk off alcohol in their home and does not leave.

What right does law enforcement or Govt to tell people what they do can do with their own bodies, in their own homes?

Every illegal substance out there can be used in moderation, just the other day, there was a newspaper article in our area, that showed many people on their way to work stop by a certain part of town and score their Heroin, and sit in the local parking lot, and shoot up, before going to work…Ive never heard of any of these people getting into an accident or killing anyone on their way to work, and it appears like these people are able to function and maintain their jobs, so where is the problem? Why should this be illegal, while alcohol is legal, and plenty of people out there start the day with a shot before work!

It seems to me Govt has a problem with ANY substance that acts on the brains dopamine or serotonin receptors…???

 

[TEPO]

At the same time, a person who ONLY uses a drug in their home is not hurting anyone more than someone who gets drunk off alcohol in their home and does not leave.

What right does law enforcement or Govt to tell people what they do can do with their own bodies, in their own homes?

Every illegal substance out there can be used in moderation, just the other day, there was a newspaper article in our area, that showed many people on their way to work stop by a certain part of town and score their Heroin, and sit in the local parking lot, and shoot up, before going to work…Ive never heard of any of these people getting into an accident or killing anyone on their way to work, and it appears like these people are able to function and maintain their jobs, so where is the problem? Why should this be illegal, while alcohol is legal, and plenty of people out there start the day with a shot before work!

It seems to me Govt has a problem with ANY substance that acts on the brains dopamine or serotonin receptors…???

I think some people who claim to be Libertarians are actually Anarchists in disguise…

 

[St_Francis]

I believe that legalization will increase all of this.

Why do you think this?

Right now, there is an organized chain of drug runners from South America to the US smuggling cocaine and marijuana. All along that chain there is a tremendous toll of violence. We do not experience much of that violence here in the US, except along the US-Mexican border.

Were these drugs to be legalized, *the chain would disappear. *you think the gangs and violence would increase, but in reality, I don’t think so. I think the violence stems from bad people doing illegal things. Legalization would fix that.

All of it. Unless you also legalize robbery, assault and murder along with it, drug use will always be associated with crime - it always has been. It is not a rational state of being and by its nature, produces irrational acts.

Most of the violence associated with the drug trade is *not *caused by people’s being high and acting irrationally. Drug lords do not kidnap a police chief’s children or kill a protesting priest irrationally: it is a business decision, very rational. But because their trade is illegal, they deal with problems in illegal ways.

Society cannot continue simply by decriminalizing irrational behavior. The price is paid by society either way.

As well, in my experience, incarceration saves lives. It leads to clean and sober time. It allows for repentance and conversions. What price do you put on that?

I think it is great when someone goes to prison, repents, and emerges a new man. What percentage of people who go to prison actually do that? And what percentage comes out worse as a result if abusive violence directed against them?

 

[freeRadical]

Drugs are the root cause of poverty in the US. Drugs make prostitutes, and murderers.

Actually, single parenthood and the welfare state are the root causes of poverty in the US.

 

[freeRadical]

I’ve seen normal women turn to crack, only to abandon their children and become prostitutes for the rest of their lives. Men leave high paying jobs, abandon their wives and children and turn into thieves. Prison becomes their new destiny.

Drug prohibition should stop punishing US citizens for the crimes of foreign smugglers. We have to take the fight into their yard, beat them down, and seize their land… Just like we do in the Middle East. We’re good at building puppet governments from across the globe, why not do it in our own neighborhood?

Let’s boot these nasty republican and democratic politicians out of our offices and make something that flows in the right direction.

There are many people, including Nobel Prize winning economists, who argue that crack would have never been invented if cocaine had been legal.

 

[St_Francis]

This liberal/libertarian argument holds no water. There is no society that has ever been founded upon, or has healthily persisted upon the legality and toleration of drugs. Such licentious behavior is the mark of a society in transition - and not upwards. Ever hear “no man is an island”? So it is with drugs. Even if you are in solitary confinement, your behavior affects those who care for you there.
Nice try. Are you claiming that medical and societal costs from lung illness and lung cancer amount to nothing? That you and I do not also pay for it?

Actually, the tobacco companies have had to pay huge amounts, and tobacco buyers have to pay huge taxes, and smokers have much higher insurance premiums, all for the care of smokers (theoretically).

Also, you are talking about what happens here in the US. But a good part of the violence takes place in other nations to supply the US. From the farmer who is coerced into growing the drugs, to those killed in the violence, people are dying so that the US has its supply.

Is it right for us to maintain a system in which people elsewhere are killed?

The difference is that alcohol has bonafide cultural/societal uses as a food product. It is a traditional ethanol-containing, self-preserved food.

Public drunkenness was a crime in the 1960s. But, when social liberalism made alcoholism a “disease” and public drunkenness was legalized (and increased), all alcohol-related crimes began to creep upward. How many drunks have been rolled on the street, due to their drunkenness?
Do you know how the legal system works? Most of those people’s charges were reduced from dealing (at some level) to the young. Is that right?
Listen to yourself! Drug use - legal or otherwise - breaks families up. To believe that making drugs legal will magically fix this is irrational. Family drug use leads to spousal abuse and the neglect/abuse of children. You want more of this? Please explain how legalizing drugs will improve this. Drug use per se indicates an underlying problem. Simply giving up is not a solution - it is negligence.
I was on the street combatting both drug and alcohol use for 31 years. How did you get your hands dirty dealing with these societal problems?

I don’t think we should legalize and then dust off our hands. But to do something so that *our *drug problem stops causing so many problems in other countries… I just think it would be good if we could look at the problem from some other perspectives, consider other solutionsAs I asked before, social pressure reduced the use if a legal “drug” by half (earlier in the thread I *erroneously *(but by mistake) posted that smoking rates used to be 75%–I was way off as the highest rate was only 45%)

But anyway, has making drugs illegal reduced their use? Or, is there another point to probibiting drugs?

 

[freeRadical]

As a conservative republican with libertarian traits, the answer to your question is yes. Crack and murder should be banned from humanity. It is the governments job to assure that these two equal sins remain illegal.

You don’t seem to understand there is a fundamental difference between murder and taking drugs. Murder should be illegal because it infringes on somebodies right to life. There is such argument for someone taking drugs in the privacy of their own home. Is it morally right to impose costs on innocent third parties to keep me from smoking a joint in my own home?

So you think the government should make all sins illegal? Should they put people in jail for homosexual sex? Should they put people in jail for having sex outside marriage?

 

[freeRadical]

I might have missed this point already having been made in this thread so forgive me if I’m repeating someone else’s post but I see some real problems regarding car accidents. People’s reaction/reflex mechanisms are severely slowed by drugs of any sort. Making any mind/perception altering substance readily available will only make this worse. The argument about alcohol being legal doesn’t carry any weight with me. One problem doesn’t legitimize another problem. The fact that people kill others while drunk doesn’t mean it should be OK to kill people while high.

No one is arguing that drunk driving should legal and no one is arguing that people shouldn’t be punished for driving while under the influence of any drug.

 

[freeRadical]

To promote the legalization of the unholiest of unholies is demonic. Perhaps you don’t understand what the drug does. It literally opens the soul and invites demons in from hell. Anyone who turns a blind eye to this is equal to a satanic Freemason IMHO.

What about all the harm that innocent third parties suffer because of drug criminalization? The kid who gets gunned down in a drive by in the inner city is an innocent victim in every sense of the word. The person who chooses to take drugs is not. If the harm of keeping drugs illegal outweighs the benefits then the morally right thing to do is reduce that harm.

 

[SurfingTheTiber]

No one is arguing that drunk driving should legal and no one is arguing that people shouldn’t be punished for driving while under the influence of any drug.

It’s not a matter of arguing a point; it’s a matter of the reality we face on a daily basis. We already have many deaths due to impaired driving. Creating the environment for many more impaired drivers with the idea that we’ll punish the guilty doesn’t make much sense to me.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Let’s say we legalize all drugs today. That means the drug cartels (the guys who have no issue torturing and murdering people, let alone breaking laws) would have to-
-pay personal income taxes
-pay corporate taxes
-carry insurance
-pay legal wages
-use legal working conditions
-meet product standards
-meet environmental and production standards

Yeah, I seriously doubt Mr. “I already have the structures in place to make, transport, and sell drugs without government interference and can keep all the profits” Drug Lord is going to decide it’s time to go legit.

 

[TEPO]

Actually, single parenthood and the welfare state are the root causes of poverty in the US.

Drugs cause people to go on welfare because heroin junkies always call off work. Same thing with all other drug addicts. They’re generally not trust worthy people. Or am I wrong for generalizing a whole “community”. maybe they deserve civil protective rights too like what’s being arranged by LGBT groups.

Also, single parenthood is not a root cause of poverty at all.

 

[TEPO]

There are many people, including Nobel Prize winning economists, who argue that crack would have never been invented if cocaine had been legal.

That really doesn’t make sense though. How could the legality of cocaine even slightly play a role in the creation of crack? Crack is a form of delivering the drug to the brain faster meant to achieve a greater “high”… It has nothing to do with concealment or legality.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Drugs cause people to go on welfare because heroin junkies always call off work. Same thing with all other drug addicts. They’re generally not trust worthy people. Or am I wrong for generalizing a whole “community”. maybe they deserve civil protective rights too like what’s being arranged by LGBT groups.

Also, single parenthood is not a root cause of poverty at all.

Poverty in the US existed long before and will exist long after our current drug problem.

 

[TEPO]

What about all the harm that innocent third parties suffer because of drug criminalization? The kid who gets gunned down in a drive by in the inner city is an innocent victim in every sense of the word. The person who chooses to take drugs is not. If the harm of keeping drugs illegal outweighs the benefits then the morally right thing to do is reduce that harm.

There’s no way to calculate third party victims of the drug trade. In my opinion, getting to the root of the problem in South America would end a lot of problems in Mexico, the US, and abroad.

 

[TEPO]

Poverty in the US existed long before and will exist long after our current drug problem.

But to deny that drugs play a roll in it? I know of many people who have failed drug tests and lost good jobs. I’ve seen others lose jobs for being late for work -a known attribute to drug use.

So it does play a role within our current modern day system.

 

[KimberlyCat]

ALCOHOL is a drug.

In 2013 there were more than 2.5 million alcohol related deaths worldwide. More than AIDS, TB, and violence combined according to WHO.

Alcohol consumption has been linked to cirrhosis of the liver, epilepsy, poisonings, road traffic accidents, violence, and several types of cancer, including cancers of the colon/rectum, breast, larynx and liver cancers.

Alcoholics tend to die 30 years younger than the average span.

Every day, almost 30 people in the United States die in motor vehicle crashes that involve an alcohol-impaired driver.

In 2010, 10,228 people were killed in alcohol-impaired driving crashes, accounting for nearly one-third (31%) of all traffic-related deaths in the United States.

Approx. 75,000 deaths occur each year in the U.S. alone due to alcohol.