Reference for 33,000+ Protestant denominations

[PhilVaz]

jm << Getting dizzy from all those numbers, Phil? >>

Yes, I have taken some dramamine and will begin with the D’s later. Just kidding. :hypno:

I did include a few that appear to be Catholic “schismatic” Indies, so cut off a few from the Thirty-Three Billion, e.g.

Church of Ireland Traditional Rite
Croatian National Old Catholic Church
African Catholic Church

So I am terribly sorry, subtract 3.

Edit: Christian Spiritist Union of the P

Oops, so so sorry, I let a “Marginal” Christian group slip in there. Subtract 1.

All seriously broken down in my “Facts and Stats” article

Phil P

 

[YADA]

This book is a great source:

**Separated Brethren: A Review of Protestant, Anglican, Eastern Orthodox & Other Religions in the United States (Paperback) by William Joseph Whalen (Author) **

Whalen discusses the various theological and doctrinal differences that lead to the various protestant denominations in the United States. Whalen tries to do htis in a chronological manner. I must warn you that as time advances towrds our presaent time … and as the denominations fracture ad the fractures begin to fracture it becomes confusing. However this book is a good discussion of both the numbers and how the differ …

I believe that it was originally published in the 1950’s, updated and revised in the 80’s +/- and this last edition in 2002 I think… I have [or had] the last two editions but loaned them out and never got them back [in fact that is why I purchased the 2002 - I’d loaned out he earlier version and it was not returned! ]

Sorry that I cannot quote from it … I have been toying with buying anather copy but … I hate to spend the money and just wish people would return books

I highly recommend it an you may find in in the library [or they coould get it for you ]

 

[BradW]

I’d like to see someone take a shot at that.

I’ve seen protestants use I Cor. 11:18-19, “For, to begin with, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you; and to some extent I believe it. Indeed, there have to be factions among you, for only so will it become clear who among you are genuine.”

There have to be divisions, they say, because every other denomination but mine is wrong about at least something. If they are really humble, they’ll admit they might be wrong about something, but not about anything important.

 

[BradW]

the OP’s request for a reference that contains a listing of the 33,000+ Protestant denominations is still outstanding. Who is going to successfully answer the OP’s request???

It’s been answered numerous times. The list is in the World Christian Encyclopedia. Now go find a copy and study it a while, as several of people here have, before posting any more so you can post knowledgably.

 

[PhilVaz]

Thanks, definitely a book to get: Separated Brethren: A Review… by William Joseph Whalen

Teflon << You obviously don’t understand how big a list with 33,000 items in it is. >>

It would be approximately 876 pages of a volume 1 in 6-point type, single spaced, and still allow room for a summary, index, bibliography.

http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/WorldChristianEncy.jpg

But that won’t satisfy EmeraldIsle either since I do not believe “all 33,000” (or “all 30,000 Protestants” minus all Catholic/Orthodox/Marginals and 3% of the Indies, etc) are actually listed in these pages. The largest “Independent” (Protestant) denoms are estimated and grouped as follows:

– “African independent pentecostal” in 5385 separate denoms
– “African neocharismatic of mixed traditions” in 3333 separate denoms
– “White-led charismatic” in 2856 separate denoms

I don’t believe all of these 5385 + 3333 + 2856 (= 11,574) individual names are found listed in Volume 1. But I will double-check my next trip to U.S.F. This probably also explains why “only” 9,000+ total denom names are available online (by the same people who edited the WCE) and not 33,000+. I’m still trying to figure that out.

Note also: the total number TODAY is now closer to 40,000 (very bottom of page) since the WCE gives year 2000 numbers.

Phil P

 

[BradW]

Zyzexx Church of Zeastern Zambia
ZZzZZ Zhurch of Zamibia Christians United Church
ZZzZZZZ Zhurch Zambian Zhristian Zunited Zassemblies of Zeus

GRAND TOTAL PROTESTANTS: Thirty-Three Billion, Nine-Hundred Eighty-Eight Million, Seven Hundred and 77 and 1/2.

Phil P

Thirty-three billion? Oh my goodness, even God only has Nine Billion Names!

 

[PhilVaz]

Brad << Thirty-three billion? Oh my goodness, even God only has Nine Billion Names! >>

I have been studying too much of the “secrets” of Scientology lately. Getting my numbers mixed up with L. Ron’s :

“The first time I arrived [in heaven] and the moment of the implant To Forget was dated at 43,891,832,611,177 years, 344 days, 10 hours, 20 minutes and 40 seconds from 10:02=BD PM Daylight Greenwich Time May 9, 1963.” (from the 1963 “Heaven” Bulletin)

The number of Protestant denominations is a Xenu implant.

Phil P

 

[jmcrae]

Thirty-three billion? Oh my goodness, even God only has Nine Billion Names!

And considering that there are only about 500,000,000 Protestants in total, world-wide, this means that each individual Protestant is practicing an average of 66 distinctly different religions, all at the same time!!

 

[CentralFLJames]

And considering that there are only about 500,000,000 Protestants in total, world-wide, this means that each individual Protestant is practicing an average of 66 distinctly different religions, all at the same time!!

Can you recalculate and see if we can get another 6 in there somehow to make it perfectly imperfect (e.g. 666)? Possession by a legion of evil spirits is said to be the final fate that befalls those who reject real presence, priestly authority and the Catholic Church; since once all these things are rejected demons can move in knowing there is nothing on heaven or earth that can evict/exorcise them.

James

 

[MarcoPolo]

I’ve seen protestants use I Cor. 11:18-19, “For, to begin with, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you; and to some extent I believe it. Indeed, there have to be factions among you, for only so will it become clear who among you are genuine.”

I wonder if they ever realize who is behind those divisions.
Luke 22:31.

 

[5pintLutheran]

I am sorry to say but I don’t think Protestant’s surviving their breakaway from the Catholic Church is a all part of Divine Providence and Divine Plan. Christ has already used His terrible saw and what we have now are just the beginning effects of what is to come. The Divine objective is one Catholic Apostolic Faith.

There is really nothing that a loosely confederated assembly of “corporate” not for profit tax-exempt ecclesiastical communities can do to keep themselves viable and cohesive. No, there are only 3 paths that we can anticipate. The legions of Protestant denoms will either: 1) Becomes targets for corporate takeovers and aggregation into large clusters of Protestant mega-churches to survive (many protestant leaders will sell out their congregations in exchange for positions) or 2) most protestants except the most zealous will abandon the failed secularized church experiment and start to migrate to to the Catholic Church or 3) Protestants in mass will opt out and become morally secular and simply stop going to services with any frequency except for social networking opportunities. I personally expect that #2 will happen after a very severe Divine Chastisement becomes imminent.

Given that Protestantism is essentially founded on a principal of anarchy where “everyone with a bible is their own authority (or church)” even the most modest of thinkers should have no difficulty seeing that ‘the house that Martin built’ is a house of cards. It can’t possibly sustain itself for very much longer. Expect massive social unrest as the rats all abandon ship…

James

I think what he meant was that, Protestant christianity needs to become more Catholic in structure in order to survive (from what I gather).

 

[Teflon93]

I think what he meant was that, Protestant christianity needs to become more Catholic in structure in order to survive (from what I gather).

I think you’re right.

To the extent that “become more corporate” means “recognizing one authority” this would be helpful, but until they accept the Vicar of Christ on Earth the job won’t be done, nor the benefits of such unity realized.

Still, the prospects of Christian reconciliation and reunion would be far better for fewer seats at the negotiating table.

It would be nice to get back to where Christendom was in the 11th century, where despite divisions an ecumenical council was at least feasible.

 

[PhilVaz]

I wrote a little program (PHP) to remove duplicates from a .csv list I uploaded online. The grand total of “unique” Protestant denoms (with Catholics/Orthodox and “marginals” removed) is 5000+

Here is your specific list of 5000+ Protestant denominations

I still need to work on manually removing some duplicates, but its a start…

This was from an initial list of 9000+ (RCs/Orths and all “duplicates” included) from Gordon-Conwell’s “Global Christianity” online (the successor and updater to the World Christian Encyclopedia data)

So take 33,000 and multiply by .56 and you are probably nearer the total “unique” number (i.e. non-duplicates in other countries) of Protestant denominations: e.g. 18,000+

Phil P

 

[toaslan]

I wrote a little program (PHP) to remove duplicates from a .csv list I uploaded online. The grand total of “unique” Protestant denoms (with Catholics/Orthodox and “marginals” removed) is 5000+

Here is your specific list of 5000+ Protestant denominations

I still need to work on manually removing some duplicates, but its a start…

This was from an initial list of 9000+ (RCs/Orths and all “duplicates” included) from Gordon-Conwell’s “Global Christianity” online (the successor and updater to the World Christian Encyclopedia data)

So take 33,000 and multiply by .56 and you are probably nearer the total “unique” number (i.e. non-duplicates in other countries) of Protestant denominations: e.g. 18,000+

Phil P

I’m sorry to be dense, but why take 33k and multiply by .56? What does this have to do with the 5k+ you have successfully identified?

 

[Teflon93]

I’m sorry to be dense, but why take 33k and multiply by .56? What does this have to do with the 5k+ you have successfully identified?

You have to account for those outside of the United States which are not in fact in full communion with the parent denomination. Many Protestant communities are not international.

 

[CentralFLJames]

You have to account for those outside of the United States which are not in fact in full communion with the parent denomination. Many Protestant communities are not international.

I personally think 33K is too low since “most” Protestant communities are not even in agreement and communion with their own board of directors, internal committees and conflicted factions much less are they in communion with their own denominational faith communities in their cities, counties, regions and national Headquarters.

Protestantism is just another word for anarchy. It will all accelerate ever more quickly down the slippery slope as the Anglican’s thin veneer of legitimacy starts delaminating ever more into stratified factions of liberals, orthodox and pseudo-Catholics. This will take-out all their derivatives as well - one by one.

The branches were cut long ago when The Catholic Church anathematized the original heretics under the divine authority to loose and bind. No institution, heretical belief or human so anathematized can survive unless they repent and come back to The Catholic Church.

Can anyone say “Timmmmbbbbeerrrrr”?

James

 

[Teflon93]

I personally think 33K is too low since “most” Protestant communities are not even in agreement and communion with their own board of directors, internal committees and conflicted factions much less are they in communion with their own denominational faith communities in their cities, counties, regions and national Headquarters.

Protestantism is just another word for anarchy. It will all accelerate ever more quickly down the slippery slope as the Anglican’s thin veneer of legitimacy starts delaminating ever more into stratified factions of liberals, orthodox and pseudo-Catholics. This will take-out all their derivatives as well - one by one.

The branches were cut long ago when The Catholic Church anathematized the original heretics under the divine authority to loose and bind. No institution, heretical belief or human so anathematized can survive unless they repent and come back to The Catholic Church.

Can anyone say “Timmmmbbbbeerrrrr”?

James

Once they cut themselves off from the Church, they left themselves with no authority to call upon. The lack of charity and incredible egos of the Reformers prevented orderly succession even amid the original heretical sects, compounded by the disastrous decision to hitch their wagons to temporal princes. It is no wonder that even the original handful of Protestant denominations ballooned so swiftly.

 

[Cat]

I personally think 33K is too low since **“most” Protestant communities are not even in agreement and communion with their own board of directors, internal committees and conflicted factions much less are they in communion with their own denominational faith communities in their cities, counties, regions and national Headquarters. **
Protestantism is just another word for anarchy. It will all accelerate ever more quickly down the slippery slope as the Anglican’s thin veneer of legitimacy starts delaminating ever more into stratified factions of liberals, orthodox and pseudo-Catholics. This will take-out all their derivatives as well - one by one.

The branches were cut long ago when The Catholic Church anathematized the original heretics under the divine authority to loose and bind. No institution, heretical belief or human so anathematized can survive unless they repent and come back to The Catholic Church.

Can anyone say “Timmmmbbbbeerrrrr”?

James

(Boldface mine)

Upon what do you base this statement?

I was Protestant for over 40 years. Of course there are disagreements between the churches and their denominational headquarters, just as there are many MANY disagreements between Catholics and their Church "headquarters.

But that doesn’t justify calling them separate “denominations” or saying that they aren’t in communion with their denominational headquarters.

For many years, the United Methodist Church has had a “Confessing Movement” within the denomination, those Methodists who would like to see the UMC return to its roots and rid the Church of homosexual ministers, abortion support, and other liberalisms that have alienated so many Christians.

But this Confessing Movement is STILL part of the “United Methodist Church” denomination. Until they officially split away, they will be part of the “United Methodist Church” denomination.

And good news–apparently the African UMC churches pushed the vote so that now the UMC has a much more pro-life wording in its Statement of Faith.

That reminds me, someone mentioned that many churches in other countries aren’t in communion with their denominational headquarters in the U.S. Again, what is the basis for making this statement? I was a member of several different Protestant denominations, and the churches from other countries were just as much part of the denomination and provided leadership and delegates as the churches in the U.S.

As I’ve said in several previous posts on this thread, Catholics do not need to stretch the truth or use dubious counting methods or make wild statements when it comes to the number of Protestant denominations. This only hurts the credibility of Catholics among Protestants and among discerning Catholics. Even if there were only a dozen denominations, it is obviously opposed to what Jesus prayed for in John 17. ONE Church is what Jesus prayed for, and a dozen churches is 11 too many.

 

[Cat]

Using a phone book and counting each church listed as a separate denomination is incorrect.

Many churches with different names are part of the same denomination.

In fact, there are several denominations that are making an effort to exclude their denominational affiliation from their church name. Denominations alienate some Christians and seekers, so the churches are making an attempt to do away with this “wall” and call themselves “Community Church” or “Friendship Center,” etc. But these churches are still part of denominations.

A few examples of denoms that are doing this are the Christian and Missionary Alliance (for obvious reasons–the long denominational name scares people away!) and the Assemblies of God (not sure why these folks are getting away from A of G as a name–perhaps they want to lose the image of “Pentecostal” which conjures up a non-intellectual, hyper-emotional approach to worship, as well as ladies with no makeup, chignons, and dresses to their ankles.)

Other churches call themselves names that are representative of the community in which they are located; e.g., the Main Street Christian Center. But often, these are part of a denomination.

So don’t assume that when you see a hundred church names that they are all different denoms. I would be willing to bet that the hundred names represents only a few actual denominations.

I really can’t say for certain how the African American Churches are organized, but I think??? that it is incorrect to assume that each church is a separate denomination . I think??? that there are actually several distinctively AA denominations (e.g., AME) and that many AA churches are part of these historical denominations. I also know that the many AA churches are part of “white” denominations, e.g., UMC, Baptist, etc.

We don’t like it when Protestants make incorrect assumptions about Catholic churches. Let’s not behave the same way towards Protestants.

 

[Cat]

One more post, and I hope I don’t get in trouble for “three in a row.” I’m just trying to separate different ideas.

I personally think it is incorrect to count each Baptist denomination as a separate denomination. There are literally hundreds of different Baptist sub-sets, but they are all “Baptists.”

So IMO, it’s “cheating” to use the Baptist sub-sets to make up the “33,000.”

Also, some Protestant denominations have “autonomous” churches that are not directly controlled by a denominational headquarters. An example would be the Christian churches, Churches of Christ, and Disciples of Christ, which claim to be non-denominational. But these churches are actually part of the “group” (since they don’t want to be called a denomination!") of Restoration Churches, which, IMO, would count as one “denomination,” not thousands of denominations. They all believe the same thing, although some allow musical instruments and others don’t. But these different practices shouldn’t make a church a whole separate denomination, just as Catholic parishes who use pipe organs are not a separate denomination of Catholics than those that use pianos and guitars.

(Note" The Church of Christ is NOT the same as the United Church of Christ! The Church of Christ is part of the Restoration Movement and would be considered “evangelical,” while the United Church of Christ is a “liberal” church that teaches “liberal” theology e.g,. the virgin birth is a myth, and promotes liberal social issues, e.g., abortion rights. The UCC was the first denomination to ordain a gay pastor, BTW. OTOH, the UCC is a denomination with autonomous churches, so it IS possible to find one that is still teaching a conservative, orthodox Gospel of Jesus Christ. Not fair to lump them all together as “liberal.”)