Refugees detained at US airports after Trump exec order

[_Abyssinia]

There is such intense world backlash at this, and not just from Muslim countries. It will serve to isolate Trump - also hurt Brexit, other concerns of our allies. Trump cannot play into the hands of his worst enemies like this. If you support Trump, you should be very worried right now. Good idea, very very very badly handled.

Someone else may have made this point, perhaps joshman1 put it similarly, but I could be wrong.

Whatever one feels about the executive order, Trump spoke openly about the extreme vetting that would take place from countries and he spoke about this prior to the election being held in November, and he still won.

 

[dvdjs]

My opinion, if we are going to execute extreme vetting – do it across the board. PERIOD. The Saudi’s, Pakastinian, Russian, Venezuelan…the list goes on.

Do you have any idea what extreme vetting is, how it compares to what we do now, and how that compares to what was done in the EU? If we do it PERIOD, how long will it each vetting take? What will be the cost? Is it compatible with conducting international commerce? Have you considered a cost/benefit analysis or are you just emitting?

Others states? why not? At least the ones whose citizens were involved in 9/11 - nations that oddly missed Trump’s list.

And don’t count on Russia. Putin sent a strong message by whacking the ex-KGB who released information found in the M16 dossier.

 

[dvdjs]

I’m not sacrificing a thing.

Then that’s that.

 

[gracepoole]

My opinion, if we are going to execute extreme vetting – do it across the board. PERIOD. The Saudi’s, Pakastinian, Russian, Venezuelan…the list goes on.

That certainly would make more sense. The trouble is that I’ve not seen any definition of “extreme vetting” and how it would differ from the current process, which is already extreme.

 

[ProVobis]

Trump is the legally elected President of the USA. He made promises and those that elected him expect them to be kept.

I suggest that those looking for “promises” to be kept should read in the Constitution where it’s possible that the promises might be subject to Congressional approval and/or judicial clearance.

 

[gracepoole]

You have a very strange perspective.

Really? I think it’s quite strange to fear a refugee terrorist as opposed to cows, vending machines, hot tap water, and swing sets – all of which are more likely to kill you.

Your post has, however, alerted me to the danger that the grand-father clock presents and I will most immediately bring it to the attention of the authorities.

 

[Seamus_L]

We’ve already sacrificed some of our civil liberties because of Islamic terrorists. One need only look at the locked down police state the Boston area became during the hunt for Tsarnaev brothers. I don’t want to give up my Constitutional rights so that people from the Islamic world can bring there problems here. I support President Trump 100 pct.

 

[M-Dent]

Do you have any idea what extreme vetting is, how it compares to what we do now,

If I was in charge, extreme vetting would entail behavioral indicators from interviews; especially, involuntary in nature.

and how that compares to what was done in the EU?

Frankly what the EU does should have no bearing on what the United States should focus on. Unless, they can demonstrate some high success rate at identifying threats.

If we do it PERIOD, how long will it each vetting take? What will be the cost? Is it compatible with conducting international commerce? Have you considered a cost/benefit analysis or are you just emitting?

No longer than a screen check point at an airport.

Others states? why not? At least the ones whose citizens were involved in 9/11 - nations that oddly missed Trump’s list.

And don’t count on Russia. Putin sent a strong message by whacking the ex-KGB who released information found in the M16 dossier.

I don’t disagree.

 

[Thorolfr]

That certainly would make more sense. The trouble is that I’ve not seen any definition of “extreme vetting” and how it would differ from the current process, which is already extreme.

Mr. Trumps vetting process would be even more bigly extreme!

 

[dvdjs]

Was Abdul Razak Arcan not convicted of commiting an act of domestic terrorism in 2016? He came to the USA as a refugee: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Ohio_State_University_attack

As pointed out before, with the vetting process and follow up surveillance, not a single US life has been lost to terrorist acts refugees from the countries involved in this ban. Arcan was killed in his attempt, and was dead before any arrest, trial, or conviction for his apparent lone-wolf act.

I am happy to agree with anyone preferring that no one in the US, refugee immigrant, natural born citizen would be inspired to commit acts of terror, attempt them, or succeed in them. It would be great to have a thoughtful conversation about how to achieve that. Instead we conversations about disruptive stuff that is not likely to have any positive effect, and could enhance radicalization of people like Arcan.

 

[dvdjs]

Mr. Trumps vetting process would be even more bigly extreme!

Waterboarding and other torture?

 

[dvdjs]

I don’t want to give up my Constitutional rights so that people from the Islamic world can bring there problems here…

Whose rights are you willing to sacrifice?

 

[ProVobis]

We’ve already sacrificed some of our civil liberties because of Islamic terrorists. One need only look at the locked down police state the Boston area became during the hunt for Tsarnaev brothers. I don’t want to give up my Constitutional rights so that people from the Islamic world can bring there problems here. I support President Trump 100 pct.

If that’s the case, we have only ourselves to blame. We sell our houses, schools, buildings generally to the highest bidder. If he happens to be Muslim or anyone else, are we going to turn down that bid? I’d bet most won’t.

I happen to have Muslims as neighbors and I get it from visitors and relatives. I have no complaints against them though. I helped them find their cat and they shovel the snow from my driveway.

The problem is with our fear-stirring politicians, including the one at the top. The war is on them, not me.

 

[dvdjs]

If I was in charge, extreme vetting would entail behavioral indicators from interviews; especially, involuntary in nature.

So glad you have no position of authority.

Frankly what the EU does should have no bearing on what the United States should focus on. Unless, they can demonstrate some high success rate at identifying threats.

Excellent. So we can stop with observation of what has happened in Austria, German, France, etc. since they are not relevant to what is happening here.

No longer than a screen check point at an airport.

That is not extreme. The current vetting involves multiple f2f interviews, background, and, fingerprint checks.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

If that’s the case, we have only ourselves to blame. We sell our houses, schools, buildings generally to the highest bidder. If he happens to be Muslim or anyone else, are we going to turn down that bid? I’d bet most won’t.

I happen to have Muslims as neighbors and I get it from visitors and relatives. I have no complaints against them though. I helped them find their cat and they shovel the snow from my driveway.

The problem is with our fear-stirring politicians, including the one at the top. The war is on them, not me.

Trump tapped into fear. He was elected by fear filled people we are only beginning to see the fruits of fear.

 

[_Abyssinia]

As pointed out before, with the vetting process and follow up surveillance, not a single US life has been lost to terrorist acts refugees from the countries involved in this ban. Arcan was killed in his attempt, and was dead before any arrest, trial, or conviction for his apparent lone-wolf act.

I am happy to agree with anyone preferring that no one in the US, refugee immigrant, natural born citizen would be inspired to commit acts of terror, attempt them, or succeed in them. It would be great to have a thoughtful conversation about how to achieve that. Instead we conversations about disruptive stuff that is not likely to have any positive effect, and could enhance radicalization of people like Arcan.

Whether death was incurred shouldn’t be the only determination here in regards to refugees. What about injury without death? No person that Artan attacked in his rampage died, but he injured multiple people and for all I know, there could be those still in hospital because of the injuries. Some may be permanently injured, physically and/or mentally because of what Artan did.

 

[Seamus_L]

We had a term I remember hearing when I was little back in the 60’s, but it seems to be politically incorrect now. That term was Undesirable Alien, and it’s pretty much self explanatory. No one has an inalienable right to come to the United States. In the past, if we didn’t believe it was in our best interests, we denied entry to certain people. Nowdays though, I hear people spouting modernistic rubbish, from the world without borders crowd, that anyone from anywhere has as much right to be here as Americans do.

 

[M-Dent]

So glad you have no position of authority.

Me to. I don’t feel qualified.

But what I mentioned has been happening at every airport across this nation, to some degree.

 

[Thorolfr]

From CNN, “Inside the confusion of the Trump executive order and travel ban”:

"The policy team at the White House developed the executive order on refugees and visas, and largely avoided the traditional interagency process that would have allowed the Justice Department and homeland security agencies to provide operational guidance, according to numerous officials who spoke to CNN on Saturday…

Before the President issued the order, the White House did not seek the legal guidance of the Office of Legal Counsel, the Justice Department office that interprets the law for the executive branch. A source said the executive order did not follow the standard agency review process that’s typically overseen by the National Security Council, though the source couldn’t specifically say if that included the decision to not have the order go through the Office of Legal Counsel."

cnn.com/2017/01/28/politics/donald-trump-travel-ban/index.html

The way this Executive Order was done was very slipshod. No wonder there was so much confusion.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

It reversed a 50 year old policy. We used to celebrate Cubans who dared the danger to make it here and received a welcome; now, we are telling them don’t even try to escape the hardship and misery because we’ll send you back. How is it any different?

You are still misrepresenting the action. Cubans who are fleeing persecution can still apply for refugee status, the same as anyone else. And their request will be considered on its merits the same as with anyone else who arrives here illegally. The only change from the old policy is that residency is not granted automatically like it has been under the old policy. They are not being told anything negative that is not also told to everyone else.