Refugees detained at US airports after Trump exec order

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Inisfallen said:
This is terrifying. This is horrible. This is a disgrace.

What if my wife, who is a green card holder, wants to go home to visit her elderly and ailing parents? Will she be denied entry when she returns? Will she be kept from her children?

I can’t believe this. This is not the United States I know.

God help us.
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We have to put aside our differences and speak out in unison against this.
 
exnihilo said:
The US has every right to unilaterally revoke any privilege to travel or remain in the US. Whether it is cruel or not depends on the circumstances. It seems to me that any vetting that was done was not good enough due to a severely deficient system. Evidence for this is the number of people, or their children, who have been allowed to travel and stay in the US and who have committed terrorist acts. The Fort Hood shooter served for years in the military. So I don’t consider having worked for the government for years to be sufficient evidence someone is not a threat.
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Exactly. It is actually a very common way to get into a country for terrorists, one of the main ways for ISIS. I don’t know what the order says as I have mentioned so I don’t want to defend something I don’t approve of, but I don’t think we should be making false assertions against it. I am ok with vetting potential terrorists and I don’t think this is a ‘Muslim ban.’ If I later learn about something I don’t like, I will say so in a post.
 
This is what President Trump said he would do, and this is the reason we voted for him. 👍
 
Until today, until this moment, I was at least hopeful about the next four years. Trump was elected as our president in a fair and free election, and I thought perhaps some good things might happen. I wasn’t thinking about “resistance,” or anything like that.

Now I’m not. It’s over.

We, as a nation, have made a horrible, horrible mistake. And we’re going to pay for it.

This is a very sad day. My wife has to be afraid to visit her family. My children (who are U.S. citizens) have to be afraid to visit their grandparents, in case Mom won’t be allowed to return home with them.

I’m going to join my local Democratic club on Monday and give as many hours as I can to working as hard as I can to ensure that President Trump and his party are defeated in the next election.
 
Seamus_L said:
This is what President Trump said he would do, and this is the reason we voted for him. 👍
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Speak for yourself. I know many Trump voters who voted on other grounds (esp pro-life), thought that these extremist positions were just overblown campaign rhetoric, and were expecting a far less extreme tone if her were elected.
 
Inisfallen said:
Until today, until this moment, I was at least hopeful about the next four years. Trump was elected as our president in a fair and free election, and I thought perhaps some good things might happen. I wasn’t thinking about “resistance,” or anything like that.

Now I’m not. It’s over.

We, as a nation, have made a horrible, horrible mistake. And we’re going to pay for it.

This is a very sad day. My wife has to be afraid to visit her family. My children (who are U.S. citizens) have to be afraid to visit their grandparents, in case Mom won’t be allowed to return home with them.

I’m going to join my local Democratic club on Monday and give as many hours as I can to working as hard as I can to ensure that President Trump and his party are defeated in the next election.
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We have to resist. We must be careful to not simply be loud and brash against Trump generally (since we HAVE to find common ground). But on these gross policies, we have to be loud and firm. Call your congressmen. March. Help immigration clinics. Show people why these policies aren’t built on Americas shared principles. And yes, 2018 and 2020 have to be different.
 
joshman1 said:
When it hits you that this isn’t about security but islamohobia and vilification of brown people.
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There is a fine line between being in favor of U.S. security and having Islamophobia, just as there is a fine line between being anti-Zionist and being anti-Semitic. Although the line does exist, anti-religious prejudice often masquerades in the form of political ideology and patriotism. Our own history shows this to be the case.
 
joshman1 said:
We have to put aside our differences and speak out in unison against this.
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What do you propose the country do to properly vet potential terrorists?

My position: I am undecided on how I feel about this, mostly because the prior administrations Democrat and Republican alike have done a poor job keeping terrorists sleeper cells out. I’m well aware that some of these are home grown terrorists. However, with that said, just because some are home grown does not mean we ought not address those that are outside. I am strongly in favor of allowing refugees into this country due to the terrible situation occurring with ISIS. However, we also need to be smart about who we allow into this country.
 
Stylteralmaldo said:
What do propose the country do to properly vet potential terrorists?

My position: I am undecided on how I feel about this, mostly because the prior administrations Democrat and Republican alike have done extremely poor job keeping terrorists sleeper cells out. I’m well aware that some of these are home grown terrorists. However, with that said, just because some are home grown does not mean we ought not address those that are outside. I am strongly in favor of allowing refugees into this country due to the terrible situation occurring with ISIS. However, we also need to be smart about who we allow into this country.
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We have a vetting process in place. Fear shouldn’t dictate policy.
 
From last October’s Catholic Herald, “Pope Francis: You can’t defend Christianity by being ‘against refugees and other religions’”:
Meeting a pilgrimage of Catholics and Lutherans from Germany, Pope Francis said he does not like “the contradiction of those who want to defend Christianity in the West, and, on the other hand, are against refugees and other religions.”
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“This is not something I’ve read in books, but I see in the newspapers and on television every day,” Pope Francis said.
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Answering questions from young people in the group this morning, the pope said, “the sickness or, you can say the sin, that Jesus condemns most is hypocrisy,” which is precisely what is happening when someone claims to be a Christian but does not live according to the teaching of Christ.
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“You cannot be a Christian without living like a Christian,” he said. “You cannot be a Christian without practicing the Beatitudes. You cannot be a Christian without doing what Jesus teaches us in Matthew 25.” This is a reference to Christ’s injunction to help the needy by such works of mercy as feeding the hungry, clothing the naked and welcoming the stranger.
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“It’s hypocrisy to call yourself a Christian and chase away a refugee or someone seeking help, someone who is hungry or thirsty, toss out someone who is in need of my help,” he said. “If I say I am Christian, but do these things, I’m a hypocrite.”
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catholicherald.co.uk/news/2016/10/13/pope-francis-you-cant-defend-christianity-by-being-against-refugees-and-other-religions/
 
Thorolfr said:
From last October’s Catholic Herald, "Pope Francis: You can’t defend Christianity by being ‘against refugees and other religions’

catholicherald.co.uk/news/2016/10/13/pope-francis-you-cant-defend-christianity-by-being-against-refugees-and-other-religions/
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The Holy Father is right in a sense. But to be for something is to be against the opposite. Vetting people or limiting them isn’t being against them. Is the Pope against me because I would be vetted and found unworthy of a private audience? I don’t think so.
 
exnihilo said:
The Holy Father is right in a sense. But to be for something is to be against the opposite. Vetting people or limiting them isn’t being against them. Is the Pope against me because I would be vetted and found unworthy of a private audience? I don’t think so.
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He’s not against you, just note that you are in disagreement with the pope. Pray on that
 
exnihilo said:
The Holy Father is right in a sense. But to be for something is to be against the opposite. Vetting people or limiting them isn’t being against them. Is the Pope against me because I would be vetted and found unworthy of a private audience? I don’t think so.
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I partially agree with your statement. Surely vetting is not being against people, but limiting all of them by country of origin and thus probable religion, on the basis of assuming some are terrorists is, in my view, being against those in dire need of refuge.
 
Seamus_L said:
This is what President Trump said he would do, and this is the reason we voted for him. 👍
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Well, you and almost half the country voted for Trump. And I think that Trump would be short-sighted if he were fall into the same “We won, you lost, so shut up and go along” attitude many on the Left showed about Obamacare, gay marriage, etc.

I actually do have some grudging admiration that Trump actually does seem committed to following through on his campaign promises. Nor I am in favor of “open borders”. However, this EO is a very blunt instrument and seems to have fallen on many people who are NOT terrorists in any way, shape or form.

As for the “fake news” mantra I can see why Trump stated that his supporters would remain loyal even if they saw him shoot someone. They’d probably claim an imposter had dressed up as Trump and shot someone just to discredit Trump.
 
joshman1 said:
We have a vetting process in place. Fear shouldn’t dictate policy.
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The Obama administration policy has been a failure. I’m not suggesting the Trump policy is the solution, but saying the way we get now is working is inaccurate from my perspective given the number of terror attacks we have suffered over the past several years.

Since the previous policy has failed us and a change in how we vet is needed, I’d like suggestions on how we can improve that process. Until then, I’m not willing to universally condemn the action of the Trump administration here until I know more.
 
Stylteralmaldo said:
The Obama administration policy has been a failure. I’m not suggesting the Trump policy is the solution, but saying the way we get now is working is inaccurate from my perspective given the number of terror attacks we have suffered over the past several years.

Since the previous policy has failed us and a change in how we vet is needed, I’d like suggestions on how we can improve that process. Until then, I’m not willing to universally condemn the action of the Trump administration here until I know more.
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Just know your inaction enables Trump and is hurting hundreds of families in need. We need to help these refugees. This is a Muslim ban effectively - think on that.
 
joshman1 said:
Just know your inaction enables Trump and is hurting hundreds of families in need. We need to help these refugees. This is a Muslim ban effectively - think on that.
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It is not a Muslim ban by any means.
 
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